Arnold Should Not Grant Him Clemency!

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

I see your point, and you might be right about that...although I like to believe I am constantly changing...I am never the same person...not even the same person I was yesterday.

But now, let's assume there is no afterlife...

In that case, isn't the Death Penalty...giving him eternal sleep...a release from his suffering?

Or if Spirit Prison exists...what if it is a kinder, gentler place than earth prison. If I was LDS, I would believe that...because I don't think God would run an American style prison where the prisoners suffer. It would be more like a place for rehabilitation...a mental institution, so to speak. Because you would have to be crazy not to believe the Gospel, right?

The only case where I can see the Death Penalty not being a release from suffering is if he goes to a Fundamentalist Christian version of Hell.

[Setheus]

I dont know if I'd call an "eternal sleep" a good thing. I mean, I've been unconcious and if thats what death is then dont you think its a terrible thought? The horror is that you cease to exist. I would rather feel pain than to feel nothing.

[Outshined]

Originally posted by Setheus@Dec 13 2005, 08:32 PM

Now, about this "better place"...ok, so the PLACE may be better but are the circumstances?  I mean, Tookie was not raped daily by any means...he was a man of great power here in this life.  I know several gang members and the term they go by is a "shot caller"  ie....they are high enough in the gang to call the shots and make decisions and I see the power they have.  I cant imagine the kind of pull Tookie had as a founding father.    

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No kidding:

In 1981, Williams was caught beating up an other inmate with his fists, and ignored orders to stop.  In 1982, Williams refused to an order to line up...and told a guard "you'll get yours boy, I can do anything now because I know what the gunmen will do...one of these days I'll trick you boy."  Twice that same year, Tookie attacked guards with chemical substances.  In 1984, Tookie was back to beating up another inmate...and didn't stop until a guard fired a warning shot.  Also in 1984, Williams was caught making out with a female visitor.  He told the guard then "you are looking around too much and that's not your job. I have dusted many officers on the street, one more would not make any difference." 

  In 1986 he beat up another inmate.  1988..he was stabbed in retaliation for a stabbing he ordered of another inmate.  1991...Tookie was again caught beating up another inmate.  Same thing again in 1993.

Link

[sgallan]

1991...Tookie was again caught beating up another inmate. Same thing again in 1993.

The Tookie horse is dead now so I don't really care about him in general but let me educate you a bit of the culture of prison. It is sort of an upsidedown world based on respect. If someone disrespects you, and you don't retaliate, then everybody will disrespect you. Which means you get beat-up, raped, and probably killed. You hang with your own kind. From the day you get assigned to a cell block you find your own 'kind' and become part of that 'gang'. If the leader of that gang (whether it be white, black, hispanic, asian, or whatever), says, "go stab so and so, or beat up so and so".... you pretty much have to do it. If you don't then you have disrespected the leader. He is going to 'get' you, and you have no protection. You will either be killed or have to go into protective custody.... a very lonely place.

Prisons are not a nice.

[Outshined]

I need no "education" on prison culture. The post was in reply to Setheus' comment that Williams was not being victimized in prison; he was not, and even attacked guards on more than one occasion.

No, prison is not a nice place (nor is supposed to be), and "Tookie" was not a good person.

[sgallan]

An interesting prison story. I was in there for a visit. Not just a visiting room visit but actually on the grounds going to the building they use for education. So we are walking to the building and the siren goes off. There is a fight going on which can sometimes escalate into riots. You are instructed to dive for the dirt. If you don't it's possible you might get shot. Well they settle things down and the inmates have to strip. The group I was in was mixed.... male and female. So there we were.... us and a couple hundred nekid' inmates.

Rumor has it that some of the females in the group will never go back. Others want to go back everyday!

[sgallan]

I need no "education" on prison culture.

I think you did. Because even redeemable people who serve their time, get out, and lead good lives afterwards, have to play the game, or they won't survive prison.

[Outshined]

Originally posted by sgallan@Dec 14 2005, 08:23 AM

I need no "education" on prison culture.

I think you did.

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Then you didn't grasp what was being discussed... B)

[sgallan]

Then you didn't grasp what was being discussed...

I was just educating you is all. I know you probably don't really care about anybody outside your own culture and faith. But I always hold out hope that people can gain compassion. Even you. Maybe I am wrong.... but I can hope.

[Outshined]

Originally posted by sgallan@Dec 14 2005, 08:29 AM

Then you didn't grasp what was being discussed...

I was just educating you is all. I know you probably don't really care about anybody outside your own culture and faith. But I always hold out hope that people can gain compassion. Even you. Maybe I am wrong.... but I can hope.

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No, you didn't "educate" me at all. I know quite a bit about prison culture, thank you very much. All you were doing is stroking your own ego.

And face it; you don't know anything at all about my "culture". I'm rather confident that I've done a lot more for those "outside my culture and faith" than you have...

[sgallan]

And face it; you don't know anything at all about my "culture". I'm rather confident that I've done a lot more for those "outside my culture and faith" than you have...

Sure you have. Anon people on discussion boards can pretty much say anything they want.

[Outshined]

Originally posted by sgallan@Dec 14 2005, 08:37 AM

And face it; you don't know anything at all about my "culture".  I'm rather confident that I've done a lot more for those "outside my culture and faith" than you have...

Sure you have. Anon people on discussion boards can pretty much say anything they want.

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I can't help it if it's true, even if you don't like it..

[sgallan]

I can't help it if it's true, even if you don't like it..

A legend in your own mind.

[Outshined]

Originally posted by sgallan@Dec 14 2005, 08:42 AM

A legend in your own mind.

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Spoken by someone who tries to speak intelligently about the "culture and faith" of those he's never met. Good approach: when you can't dispute it, insult them!

[sgallan]

Spoken by someone who tries to speak intelligently about the "culture and faith" of those he's never met. Good approach: when you can't dispute it, insult them!

No really, I don't think you are a nice person. I wouldn't want to meet you in real life and I try to protect my kid from folks like you. I am serious about that.

[Outshined]

Originally posted by sgallan@Dec 14 2005, 08:47 AM

No really, I don't think you are a nice person. I wouldn't want to meet you in real life and I try to protect my kid from folks like you. I am serious about that.

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And again, you illustrate how little you know. And I'm serious about that.

[sgallan]

And again, you illustrate how little you know. And I'm serious about that.

I understand you are diplicitous. That is enough for me. That means you are no longer fun to play with. I like to converse with real people not personna's. I think it is a reason I don't last long at this board. The other board I post at..... the debates are WAY more rowdy and personal then here. But at least I know those people are being themselves. Many of them I've met. It's not like that here. That's too bad.

Anyhow..... have a happy hollidays until the next time I liven up this board a bit. :)

[Outshined]

Originally posted by sgallan@Dec 14 2005, 08:53 AM

I understand you are diplicitous. That is enough for me. That means you are no longer fun to play with.   

Actually, your problem is that I disagree with some of what you say, and that's not fun for you.

I like to converse with real people not personna's. I think it is a reason I don't last long at this board.  The other board I post at..... the debates are WAY more rowdy and personal then here. But at least I know those people are being themselves. Many of them I've met. It's not like that here. That's too bad.

Whatever game it takes to make you feel better.

Anyhow..... have a happy hollidays until the next time I liven up this board a bit.  :)

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Same to you.

[sgallan]

Actually, your problem is that I disagree with some of what you say, and that's not fun for you.

One last reply, because I am always straight up..... the above is not true. I like the give and take. A lot. Maybe too much. Go to this board if you want to check it out....

http://www.thematforums.com/myforum/?show_...id=11&pagenum=2

But I am serious when I say I like real conversation with real people. I don't like when people split up their personalities. I can accept the a-hole better than a nice person playing an a-hole. Maybe it's why this board has never been as busy as other boards I have frequented over the years. Too many game players and not enough real interaction. Most board folks I have come to know over the years have become friends.... even despite the sometimes harsh debates. With a few exceptions I've never gotten that here. It's too bad because it seems like it could be a nice group to get to know.

[Outshined]

Originally posted by sgallan@Dec 14 2005, 09:07 AM

Actually, your problem is that I disagree with some of what you say, and that's not fun for you.

One last reply, because I am always straight up..... the above is not true. I like the give and take. A lot. Maybe too much. Go to this board if you want to check it out....

http://www.thematforums.com/myforum/?show_...id=11&pagenum=2

But I am serious when I say I like real conversation with real people. I don't like when people split up their personalities. I can accept the a-hole better than a nice person playing an a-hole. Maybe it's why this board has never been as busy as other boards I have frequented over the years. Too many game players and not enough real interaction. Most board folks I have come to know over the years have become friends.... even despite the sometimes harsh debates. With a few exceptions I've never gotten that here. It's too bad because it seems like it could be a nice group to get to know.

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That's an easy out, and I don't believe it for a minute. I'm well aware of some of the other boards you post on, and the key is how the members post.

As you said, you like the boards where you can get "personal"; you can call names and insult instead of rational conversation. When you come to a board that expects decent conduct and intelligent recourse, you are unable to make the transition, and so you will always take the low road. I've seen it on more than just this board.

Your idea of "real interaction" seems limited to calling those who disagree with you names, making ridiculous leaps of logic, and making false assertions about them or their character. Rather than rationally discuss the issue at hand, you jump to emotional jabs like implying they are not compassionate, would oppose civil rights, and such. That's weak conversation skills at work; it's possible to disagree without behaving so childishly.

Really, look at your posts; you're fine until someone presents an opposing view, then you get nasty. When confronted about it, you said "get over it." Well we've been over it, but when corrected or opposed you still get angry, stamp your feet and proclaim that "you're duplicitous, not a nice person, and I don't like you!" Then for good measure you drag your daughter into it (again) in an effort to give it some emotional weight (it doesn't; it just shows seriously flawed parenting skills).

You claimed that I was "duplicitous" about "my culture"; what have I presented here about my "culture" that you feel capable of commenting on and how have I contradicted it? You should know, as you commented on it yourself. What do I do for a living? How many times have I served in the Middle East? How many members of my family have been in prison? How long was I in the Gulf Coast area helping hurricane victims? You can answer these things, right?

Anyway, I hope you enjoyed your time here and hope you elevate the game a bit should you choose to come back.

[sgallan]

Wow, a real response. Well that is improvement.

I am not going to argue the points. Basically I am reading y'all don't want my kind around.

I am cool with that.

[Fiannan]

No really, I don't think you are a nice person. I wouldn't want to meet you in real life and I try to protect my kid from folks like you. I am serious about that.

Again, you appear to be projecting all your motivations upon your child. I really hope that you are not turning him into a mirror image of yourself. Judging from your posts you appear to show certain signs of narcissisistec personality disorder (nned for constant affirmation, alothough on a superficial level, lashing out at anyone who disagrees with you -- in a nasty way I might add, as well as dispensing with the "us v. them" and making your posts seem like an "I vs. them". Please, Sgallan, try to lighten up and maybe not take yourself so seriously, if that's possible.

[lisajo]

A person Like Tookie knows that death is a possability if you go out and kill people, 99.99% of us know that! If you dont want to die by leathel injection don't kill DUHHHHHHHHHHH! I had a realitive of mine put to death because he killed people...I do not in anyway fell sorry for the guy! I did for the victums familys and for his Mother who i was very very close to,

This has got to be the dumbest thread i have seen yet!

[Outshined]

Originally posted by lisajo@Dec 14 2005, 04:43 PM

This has got to be the dumbest thread i have seen yet!

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Oh yeah? I'll bet we can come up with a dumber one!

[lisajo]

Originally posted by Outshined+Dec 14 2005, 03:07 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-lisajo@Dec 14 2005, 04:43 PM

This has got to be the dumbest thread i have seen yet!

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Oh yeah? I'll bet we can come up with a dumber one!

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LOL Outshined, actually i bet i could too Neeener neeener Neener!