Outshined Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Originally posted by Fiannan@Dec 11 2005, 02:57 PMLauraltree, seeing that you are one of the moderators here goes:http://www.capitalideasblog.com/Not nearly as graphic as some of the stuff at Mike Savage's site, but don't open if you have a weak stomach.background information:http://www.lacountyda.org/pdf/swilliams.pdf←Thanks for the background info; the pictures were a bit more than I needed to see, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 If we're agreeing that your assertions about the people here are baseless and immature, then of course! Reason seems a bit much to ask of your posts.We'll be waiting breathlessly for an intelligent post rather than your usual blind attacks. So would this be like an attack on me. Or just another example of Christian love? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Originally posted by sgallan@Dec 13 2005, 08:39 AMSo would this be like an attack on me. Or just another example of Christian love?←A statement of fact; rather than discuss the issue, you choose to make inaccurate and immature statements about members here and avoid rational posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 A statement of fact; rather than discuss the issue, you choose to make inaccurate and immature statements about members here and avoid rational posts. So you are the ultimate barameter of such things? Got a bit of a god complex going on, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Originally posted by sgallan@Dec 13 2005, 08:47 AMSo you are the ultimate barameter of such things? Got a bit of a god complex going on, eh?←I don't have to be a "barameter" of anything to see how you've posted here. And the complex I see is on your side of the monitor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 I don't have to be a "barameter" of anything to see how you've posted here. And the complex I see is on your side of the monitor... No, now we've been over this.... if I were a god I would fix my shoulder and Reni's mommy would come back home. Shoulder hurts like crazy and Reni's mom is crazy. So much for that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Well, that pretty much sums up your posts, doesn't it? B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Well, that pretty much sums up your posts, doesn't it? Huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Originally posted by sgallan@Dec 13 2005, 08:54 AMWell, that pretty much sums up your posts, doesn't it? Huh?←Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 ExactlyCongratualtions. You actually said something clever. Yo da' man.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Originally posted by sgallan@Dec 13 2005, 09:02 AMExactlyCongratualtions. You actually said something clever. Yo da' man....←If only you were around for all my witticisms... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Well it's been fun but I've got to get some pest control done this morning. I'm bringing the kid..... she is teaching me American History. Later... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Looks like nobody's interested in Socrates anymore.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Looks like nobody's interested in Socrates anymore.... Not first thing in the morning! I'll get to it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Think not of life and children first, and of justice afterwards, but of justice first, that you may be justified before the princes of the world below.Excellent. The above summarizes really well.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontagreeljefe Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Originally posted by sgallan@Dec 12 2005, 09:35 PMFWIW.... y'all can party tonite. A guy is being killed. All the people he has touched and helped in the past 26 years years will be traumatized. But what do you care. They are people of race in a white world (yeah you deserve it because I remember the last debate along these lines was a white female who garnered much more sympathy). This should bring a smile to your face. If you have problems sleeping.... just count dead Tookies jumping over a fence.... you'll go right to sleep. But trust me..... when a young family member makes a mistake, and wants an abortion, and needs a loan, I will remember this little instance, and not only give her the loan, but make sure she is well cared for, with little to nothing weighing on my conscience. Because like you..... I am a product of the society I live in, where life really doesn't mean all that much, on any side of the equation. Just a thought. But a real world one. Because I have already done what I suggest I would do again.I cant help but comment that it seems as though we of the LDSTalk message board are beign blamed for Tookie pa dookie's conviction and execution. I for one didnt even know who the man was until this thread started so surely I must be to blame for his death. Shame on us all.Setheus was here X← All the people he touched in the last 26 years. What about the people because of his crimes were not able to be touched in the years. He traumatized families of 4 innocent people does anyone care about that or the reason he was given the death sentence in the first place. Those victimes were traumatized a lot more than a pretended remorse. He didn't care too much about the consequences before he illegally took 4 lives. Does anyone listen to Ken Hamblin. I can't get him on the radio or on internet right now. He will have a hay day. I don't agree with that myself. he always plays another one bites the dust and celebrates when a murderer is put to death. They should be but celebrating it is sick. He really had a hay day when Karla FAy Tucker was killed. I owuld oppose the death penalty if those people who killed wouldnt kill first then we wouldnt have to worry about it. But since they dont respect human life there lives should not be respeced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 But since they dont respect human life there lives should not be respeced.Which becomes a circle. If they don't repsect human life, we kill them showing we don't respect human life either. And even though it isn't the same.... I cn say the same thing when I mention I am pro-choice. It may be different but it is still a lack of respect for human life. I guess we are just a not very nice, and violent, society is all. I'll tell you what..... the next time I hear about our government giving lectures on human rights to another nation I am gonna chuckle. Who are we to lecture anybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Hey Scott, I hope you read the whole quote of Socrates and Crito. Socrates opposes rendering evil for evil (like yourself) but he's also saying that he deserves his death sentence because he did nothing to change the law. Observe the law unless or until it's changed. So basically, everyone's right and everyone's wrong here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanstress70 Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Originally posted by dontagreeljefe@Dec 13 2005, 11:53 AMAll the people he touched in the last 26 years. What about the people because of his crimes were not able to be touched in the years. He traumatized families of 4 innocent people does anyone care about that or the reason he was given the death sentence in the first place. Those victimes were traumatized a lot more than a pretended remorse. He didn't care too much about the consequences before he illegally took 4 lives. I'm with you there, but four? What about the thousands of deaths that he is responsible for, given that he helped to create the gang, the Crips? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 So basically, everyone's right and everyone's wrong here. Well I am no Socrates..... but I think I've been saying somewhat the samething. And yes I read the whole thing. I think you were trying to punish me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 I just like to spread a little mental sunshine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taoist_Saint Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 So no one thinks he was let off easy? That his death released him from the suffering he would have endured in prison for life? You might say..."well now he is in spirit prison"...well that is not as bad as earth prison. There is no rape. Just friendly spirit missionaries teaching him the gospel...unless I misunderstand the concept. According to LDS, Tookie is in a BETTER PLACE than his earth prison. If he had life in prison...even if he is not being raped by other prisoners daily (which is common in our prison system, as guards look the other way)...I think no amount of TV and weight rooms in prison can compensate for his loss of freedom. As LDS you all know this...Free Agency is a basic human right. His loss of freedom for the next 50 years or so of his life would be alot of suffering that he would arguably deserve...if what you want is revenge. Personally, being a Buddhist, I look to minimize suffering, so I find the Death Penalty confusing. On the one hand I am taught to respect all life...ALL LIFE...even a killer's life. On the other hand, I am taught to prevent suffering. So in this case, I can see how executing him was a blessing for him...it released him from his suffering. On the other hand, I am morally opposed to killing people for any reason. The revenge issue is a non-issue. Justice has nothing to do with revenge. It has to do with protecting society. In Tookie's case, both life in prison and execution would protect society. We should not be looking to cause more suffering, because it will not ease the suffering of his victims. This is why I was only able to come up with the compromise (which I mentioned several pages ago) of giving the prisoner the choice of life or death...as long as it is life without parole. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 This is why I was only able to come up with the compromise (which I mentioned several pages ago) of giving the prisoner the choice of life or death...as long as it is life without parole.Any thoughts?I like it. I always knew Budhists were much nicer than Christians. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taoist_Saint Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Originally posted by sgallan@Dec 13 2005, 12:17 PMThis is why I was only able to come up with the compromise (which I mentioned several pages ago) of giving the prisoner the choice of life or death...as long as it is life without parole.Any thoughts?I like it. I always knew Budhists were much nicer than Christians. :)←In many cases, yes. (and by the way, I am not just a Buddhist...I believe Buddhism is compatible with my other beliefs)I think I will post the death penalty question at a Buddhist message board and find out which is worse...the suffering of prison or execution? I wonder if there is a Buddhist "doctrine" on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setheus Posted December 14, 2005 Report Share Posted December 14, 2005 I have a different way to look at it. You hear that "we are who we are" or in other words just because you die and go to ..*insert destination here* doesnt automatically change us. If we're bitter when we die, or happy when we die, or depressed when we die....or whatever kind of person we are in life, that is who we will still be in the life after....."whom ever is filthy, let him be filthy still."Now, about this "better place"...ok, so the PLACE may be better but are the circumstances? I mean, Tookie was not raped daily by any means...he was a man of great power here in this life. I know several gang members and the term they go by is a "shot caller" ie....they are high enough in the gang to call the shots and make decisions and I see the power they have. I cant imagine the kind of pull Tookie had as a founding father. My point is, now that Tookie is in the spirit world he will find out that he has no power. That the only thing he has going for him is the fact that Jesus the Begotton Son of God still loves him. He may be able to repent...but will he accept that chance? Will his pride get in the way? Will he even want to repent? Will the chance be giving to him to repent? After all just because he's in the spirit world he is still who he is. I wonder who he was when he died? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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