Can God Speed Up Time? Does He Learn through fast simulation?

[Hemidakota]

Moments like this we need to add a laugh button next the thanks.

[Pianoman216]

We always think of time as linear, as one dimensional. An endless line going both directions, toward the past and toward the future. Perhaps eternity is not all time combined, but an absence of time entirely. It is easy for me to imagine God residing in this spectrum, were he is not governed by time as it does not exist.

God is NOT learning, nor did he experiment on various things to figure out creation. We learn by our mistakes because we are fallible and have the ability to make those mistakes in the first place; God, on the other hand, is perfect and does not mistakes, which means he has no mistakes to learn from. From the moment he became a God he has understood all things and has had a perfect knowledge. His learning took place before this exaltation, not during or after. The only way in which he continues to progress and grow is through us, his posterity, as we learn, grow, are granted limited amounts of glory and finally exalted and given eternities of our own and endless glory.

[Hemidakota]

Are you stating HE never had a failed world?

[Blackmarch]

I was doing a computer simulation the other day, and I was able to simulate the working of a factory over 5 years using an Excel spreadsheet. I was able to simulate orders, inventory quantities and draw conclusions about basic operating parameters. And based on certain assumptions I made about probabilities of certain events happening, I was able to essentially make 5 years or production happen in about 5 minutes.

This got me thinking -- is this perhaps why a Thousand years is like a day to Heavenly Father? Is it possible that he has the ability to speed up time, so that he's really on the same 24-hour schedule we're on, but has learned to speed up the events of his creations?

And does the fact that there are so many lines of human evolution (including ape-like ones) represent experimentatiion with learning how to create man, perhaps in an environment where key variables, such as environment, physical characteristics, and social dimensions are being manipulated to eventually learn the right combination of attributes that allow man to subdue and conquer the earth? We know that God progressed to his current perfect state just as we are now. And part of progression involves making mistakes and experimentation until we acquire perfect knowledge.

I realize there are no answers, necessarily, but the thought was intriguing to me, that perhaps God uses similar methods to control time.....Comments, while resisting the urge to poke fun about such an outside the box concept?

I think God has all things before him, and i'll wager that includes all the things that doesn't happen... no idea if GOd uses some sort of simulator or not.

I'd be all for it tho I like doing a little programming

[Justice]

Why would we be put to any tests if the outcome was known?

So we can learn and have experience.

[Justice]

Are you stating HE never had a failed world?

I don't believe so.

The outcome of all worlds is that the Savior provided a way for all who desire to return to Heavenly Father can do so.

Death was overcome; hell was overcome.

No failure, The plan was perfectly implemented in every world.

[Hemidakota]

I don't believe so.

The outcome of all worlds is that the Savior provided a way for all who desire to return to Heavenly Father can do so.

Death was overcome; hell was overcome.

No failure, The plan was perfectly implemented in every world.

It took awhile but here is the evidence. Elder B. H. Roberts was responsible in writing Church History.

The Prophet Joseph Smith is credited with having said that our planet was made up of the fragments of a planet which previously existed; some mighty convulsions disrupted that creation and made it desolate. Both its animal and vegetable life forms were destroyed. And when those convulsions ceased, and the rent earth was again consolidated, and it became desirable to replenish it, the work was begun by making a mist to rise, that it might descend in gentle rain upon the barren earth, that it might again be fruitful. Then came one of the sons of God to the earth-Adam. A garden was planted in Eden and the man placed in it, and there the Lord brought to him every beast of the field and every fowl of the air, and Adam gave names to them all. Afterwards was brought to Adam his wife, whom, since she was derived from man, he named woman; and she became his help-mate, his companion and the mother of his children. In this nothing is hinted at about man being made from the dust, and woman manufactured from a rib, a story which has been a cause of much perplexity to religious people, and a source of much impious merriment to reckless unbelievers. We are informed that the Lord God made every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb before it grew on our planet. As vegetation was created or made to grow upon some older earth, and the seeds thereof or the plants themselves were brought to our earth and made to grow, so likewise man and his help-mate were brought from some other world to our own, to people it with their children. And though it is said that the "Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground"-it by no means follows that he was "formed" as one might form a brick, or form the dust of this earth. We are all "formed" of the dust of the ground, though instead of being moulded as a brick we are brought forth by the natural laws of procreation; so also was Adam and his wife in some older world. And as for the story of the rib, under it I believe the mystery of procreation is hidden. (“Gospel and Man's Relationship” by Elder B.H. Roberts)

[Hemidakota]

From the same souce...hopefully this helps Justice with another perspective of this pre-creatiion:

Of the things I have spoken, this is the sum: There was a planet created on the plan of the spiritual creation described in the first chapter of Genesis; beginning with the condensation of nebulous matter to a "fire ball," then the cooling of the surface and thickening of the earth's crust, and the envelopment of it in water; then came light, and by internal eruptions portions of land were thrown above the surface of the water-"the dry land appeared;" then came the simpler forms of vegetation; then the sunlight visited the earth, and doubtless higher forms of vegetation, fruit-trees and flowers and grains were brought forth; then came the creatures that abound in the ocean, that fly in the air, and the beasts of the earth. Not by the process of evolution, but by the various species suitable to the condition of the earth's development being brought from some other and older sphere, with power to propogate their kind, until the changed conditions of the earth become unfavorable to them, when they became extinct and were replaced by other species of a higher type. Then came the mighty convulsions which, for some wise purpose, disrupted that planet; and when from its fragments a new world-our present planet-was brought into existence, it was made the abode of man, as described in the second account of the creation in Genesis, which begins by placing man upon the earth and then the inferior animals.

Accepting this statement of Joseph Smith's, relative to our planet in its present state being created or formed from the fragments of a planet which previously existed, one may readily understand how the supposed differences between scientists and believers in revelation have arisen. Scientists have been talking of the earth's stratta that was formed in a previously existing planet; they have considered the fossilized flora and funna imbedded in those stratta, and have speculated as to the probable elapse of time since those animal and vegetable forms of life existed; and have generally concluded that the age is so far remote that there is no possible chance of harmonizing it with the account of the creation as given in the Bible. Believers in the Bible, on the other hand, have generally taken it for granted that the account of the creation in the sacred record, would give to the earth no greater antiquity than six thousand years; and have held that within that period the universe was created out of nothing by the volition of Deity-an idea so palpably absurd that intelligence, despite all Church authority to the contrary, everywhere rejects it.

The theory set forth in this paper that before Adam was placed upon this earth to people it with his offspring, the matter of which it is composed existed in another planet, which by some mighty convulsions was broken up, and from its ruins was formed our present earth, at once affords a means of harmonizing those facts established by the researches of men and the facts of revelation. If scientists shall claim that myriads of years or of centuries must have been necessary to form the earth's crust, it may be allowed by the believers in revelation, for there is nothing that would contradict that idea in the revelations of God on the subject. If scientists shall claim that the fossilized remains in the different stratta of the earth's crust reveal the fact that in the earlier periods of the earth's existence only the simpler forms of vegetation and animal life are to be found, both forms of life becoming more complex and of higher type as the earth becomes older, until it is crowned with the presence of man-all that may be allowed. But that this gradation of animal and vegetable life owes its existence to the processes of evolution is denied. As explained in a previous paper the claims of evolution are contrary to all experience so far as man's knowledge extends. The great law of nature is that every plant, herb, fish, fowl, beast and man produces his kind, though there may be slight variations from that law, those variations soon run out either by reverting to the original stock, or else by becoming incapable of producing offspring, and thus become extinct.

Furthermore, since we have learned that God made "every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb before it grew" (i. e. in our earth), the gradation of life forms which the naturalists discovers in the various stratta of the earth's crust may reasonably be accounted for aside from the theory of evolution-viz, by the animal and vegetable life forms of some older earth being brought to our own; different species being transplanted as changed conditions in the soil and atmosphere and temperature of our earth rendered it favorable to their production, the older species becoming extinct as the changed conditions of the earth became unfavorable to them.

Then too, the theory advanced in this paper gives ample room for the reconciliation of another serious difficulty between the scientist and the believer in revelation. To the latter Adam is the first man; the former maintains that there are evidences which prove the earth to have been inhabited before Adam's time. Whether or not the planet which existed previous to our own, and out of the ruins of which our own earth was organized was inhabited by man as well as by vegetation and animals, I cannot say; all remarks on this subject would be conjecture merely. But if the researches of scientist prove beyond all question that there were pre-Adamic races, then doubtless they were inhabitants of that world which was destroyed, but the evidence of their existence as well as the evidence of the existence of animals and vegetation was preserved in the re-creation of that planet to form this earth. Though, in this connection, I must say that so far as I have examined the works of those who treat on the subject of pre-historic man, or pre-Adamic races, they have hung the heaviest weights on the slenderest of threads; and I am inclined to the opinion that Adam was the progenitor of all races of men whose remains have yet been found. (“Gospel and Man's Relationship” by Elder B.H. Roberts)

[LocalFarms]

The pre-flood era could be thought of as a failed world that was destroyed.

[Pianoman216]

Why would we be put to any tests if the outcome was known

We are not put through tests and experiences so God can know where we belong in the eternities, since he already does. We are here to prove to ourselves what we deserve. Imagine if God said, in the pre-existence, "Well, I already know that you will not follow my laws and that you'll be disobedient so I'm going to send you to the telestial kingdom for eternity" while saying to others, "Yeah, you're good. I already know you'll be righteous so you can come live with me in the Celestial kingdom!" Those sent to the telestial kingdom would, needless to say, be very offending thinking, "If only I would have had a chance, then I could do better". Well, now is our chance. God already knows where we are going, but, to be just, he must allow us to act things out ourselves.

It took awhile but here is the evidence. Elder B. H. Roberts was responsible in writing Church History.

The Prophet Joseph Smith is credited with having said that our planet was made up of the fragments of a planet which previously existed; some mighty convulsions disrupted that creation and made it desolate. Both its animal and vegetable life forms were destroyed. And when those convulsions ceased, and the rent earth was again consolidated, and it became desirable to replenish it, the work was begun by making a mist to rise, that it might descend in gentle rain upon the barren earth, that it might again be fruitful. Then came one of the sons of God to the earth-Adam. A garden was planted in Eden and the man placed in it, and there the Lord brought to him every beast of the field and every fowl of the air, and Adam gave names to them all. Afterwards was brought to Adam his wife, whom, since she was derived from man, he named woman; and she became his help-mate, his companion and the mother of his children. In this nothing is hinted at about man being made from the dust, and woman manufactured from a rib, a story which has been a cause of much perplexity to religious people, and a source of much impious merriment to reckless unbelievers. We are informed that the Lord God made every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb before it grew on our planet. As vegetation was created or made to grow upon some older earth, and the seeds thereof or the plants themselves were brought to our earth and made to grow, so likewise man and his help-mate were brought from some other world to our own, to people it with their children. And though it is said that the "Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground"-it by no means follows that he was "formed" as one might form a brick, or form the dust of this earth. We are all "formed" of the dust of the ground, though instead of being moulded as a brick we are brought forth by the natural laws of procreation; so also was Adam and his wife in some older world. And as for the story of the rib, under it I believe the mystery of procreation is hidden. (“Gospel and Man's Relationship” by Elder B.H. Roberts)

Not every world God has created was intended to maintain human life, but this does not mean that these worlds "failed". Take, for example, the other planets in our solar system. Are these works of God that have failed? Of course not, they were never intended to hold life. Perhaps this is the process by which God creates. Maybe He created these lifeless worlds with the intention of transporting them to a new system in the future on which life will spring forth, but, again, this does not mean that these worlds were accidents and improperly created.

As far as Adam and Eve living on another world before Earth: this is a completely false notion. Adam was Michael, the archangel, in the pre-existence and helped to create the Earth. He did not have a body at this time, nor had he lived on a world previously. Upon the creation of the Earth he was placed upon it, not upon some other world and later moved to the Earth. It is important to remember that, while the leaders of the church are great men and have remarkable amounts of the spirit with them, they are still fallible, even the apostles and prophet.

The pre-flood era could be thought of as a failed world that was destroyed.

It was not God's fault that the people before the flood became so wicked. Even on that note, what defines "failed"? There were countless followers of God before the people of the world began to fall to sin that were very righteous and will sit upon glorious thrones in the eternities. So, if the world had ended there, how could one claim it as failed? did it not fulfill the purposes of God? That is, to bring about the immortality and eternal life of man? And if the definition of failure is that of a world being broken down and its parts used in the creation of other worlds then nearly every single one of Gods creations fails (excluding, of course, us and this Earth once it is perfected). This is a means by which God works. The stars, though possessing incredible longevity of life will eventually burn out or explode, their elements being used in further creation. This is not failure, this is simply the way by which God creates.

[LocalFarms]

I was not suggesting G_d failed, but rather the world itself failed the test and therefore was destroyed.

[LocalFarms]

And yes every world has failures and successes. I was speaking in generalities.

[Hemidakota]

I was not suggesting G_d failed, but rather the world itself failed the test and therefore was destroyed.

Same sentiments. This is why in Abraham [paraphrasing here], "they waited unto they obeyed." Example spoken by the Prophet Abraham;

25 And the Gods organized the earth to bring forth the beasts after their kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after its kind; and the Gods saw they would obey. (Abra 4:25)

If they failed to obey, not luckily the Godhead will allow it to proceed in its creation. Noting the posting I presented, my own assessment, Joseph witnessed this in the Johnston home (see D&C 76) and made a commented later about it. Agency is our self-existent, even GOD. Agency is the universal driven plan.

I do not believe, intelligences always do obey under physical or spiritual conditions witnessed by both Abraham and Josephs.

Edited June 17, 2010 by Hemidakota