Am I at Fault?

[Emmaline]

UPDATE: I forgot I posted this so long ago and this was on here (thus the lack of response). Crazy! We did end up turning to our bishop and seeking help. We were actually in a tithing settlement meeting December 2010 when it just...came out. Well, actually, the bishop was completely tuned into the spirit as usual and asked how we were doing. We couldn't just smile and say fine- we were honest because the spirit was kicking us both from behind. My husband spoke out first and took me by surprise.

Oh, it was wonderful! Getting it out, especially the infertility, made it worlds better. We continued seeking his counsel and over the course of the next 6 months-year or so, our marriage improved dramatically. What may have seemed like small, immature things that bothered the both of us was actually hurting us in the long run, and being able to be open and honest without arguing was fantastic. We're not perfect, of course, but much better. We've learned to respect one another and be more open about things that bother us. Thank goodness for bishops and the spirit with them. In fact, the first thing our bishop said when he saw us during the last tithing settlement (last month), was, "You two are both smiling."

My husband and I have been married for 3 1/2 years, and we fight more than we should. We don't scream, yell, raise our voices (sometimes I do when I'm very stressed during an argument), and there's no physical abuse. But we argue like crazy! We started getting in arguments when we were engaged, and have carried it through. Granted, it has gotten better over time, but it still happens. We're both very stubborn.

We don't have any children. In fact, we've been dealing with infertility for about 3 years now (doctors appointments, tests, shots, treatments, etc), yet I'm starting to wonder if our arguing may be the reason why we haven't been blessed with children yet.

Now I've seen couples fight, yell, scream, cry, and flat out say nasty things to each other. We've hardly done that. We just stubbornly argue until usually I get near tears, and we distance ourselves until we're ready to talk it out. Sometimes we don't talk it out, and just tell each other to move on and forget it. Rare times it does get worse, though. Sometimes we're so exhausted, I just start crying, and he mentions the D (divorce) word. A couple of times I've packed a suitcase and threatened to leave. It's draining me.

My argument is often times I feel like I'm dealing with a kid instead of a husband. His argument is I corner him and push his buttons. He pouts, argues like a 10 year old, and tries to punish me when he doesn't get what he wants. I chew him out over things and have admittedly embarrassed him in front of people.

How do we fix this? He's the youngest of 8 children, but because of the huge gap of age between the next oldest to him, he grew up by himself with just his parents. He developed a strong bond between them. His dad was sick with cancer for about 15 years, and just recently passed away last week. His mother is the idea of a perfect mom. She washed his sheets everyday, took him to the doctor (up until he married me at age 22), cleaned up after him, did his laundry, washed his dishes, you name it. Don't get me wrong, she's the kindest, most loving woman I've ever met. She did everything for him. He was however, a full time student and graduated college.

Now that's me. I do all the laundry, I do the dishes, I vacuum, I clean up after the animals (I wanted them, so that's my responsibility anyway), I pick up after him, etc. He works full time as a software developer for an aircraft company, and I work part time as a pet specialist in a pet store. Because I work less hours, I'm willing to do more chores, and occasionally he'll help around the house.

Here's the thing. I don't feel sexy. I don't feel valuable, beautiful, or even special to him. I feel like I took over the role of his mom when we married. He has a habit of acting like a child. I feel like when I want an adult conversation, I don't get it. He'll fold his arms, ignore me, ditch me and walk away when we're in public, argue like he's 6, throws me extreme guilt trips, and finds ways to "punish" me when he's upset (also tries to get even).

Is this my fault? Is this because of me? Do I drive him to act like a child? Do I ACT more like a mother, therefore he acts like a child?

I do have the tendency to chew him out, and talk his ear off with information on how angry I am with him. I do have the tendency to embarrass him and pick at him. Is this what's driving him away? How do I step back and become less of a nag? How do I get my husband to see me as his beautiful bride he admired me for in the beginning? I feel like I'm in this endless routine, and don't know how to step out of it. You know, the nagging wife and the pouting husband who acts like he's 6. We've even managed to embarrass ourselves around my little sister who's been staying with us for a few days. At one point she turned her Ipod on to drown us out.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Emmaline

[gabelpa]

It sounds to me like he has personality traits that rub you the wrong way. These traits are not your fault. Your reaction to them is.

Now, not having children means that you won't know how to handle his childish behaviour in the best manner. I reccomend treating him like a dog, pavlovian training. Reward him when he does good, withold rewards when he does not.

Not feeling sexy, maybe head over to the Open Forum, and have a chat there. Without delving too much, you may be able to boost your own self-confidance independant of him. Do what you want to improve your life. Unfortunately until he remembers why he married you, you will need to make your own happiness.

Also consider this. His father has been dying for a long time, and this is not easy. My dad was dying slowly since I was about twelve or so, he passed away not long after I was married 7 years ago. The depression that comes with that is not to be ignored or underestimated. Part of me thinks he needs you to be strong while he sorts himself out. Sure, he needs to man-up, but he's just experienced a terrible loss. Help him as best you can.

[ryanh]

Well, what you two need is a marriage counselor, not random advice from strangers. (still, that won't stop me from giving some! ) You have a tangled knot of issues, and it isn't so easy as sorting out with one simple question - "Is it me?"

I would second the advice to ask a moderator for access to the Open Forum where adult topics are dealt with. There is a thread in there eerily similar to your situation - the poster asking "Is it me?", and the concerns of arguing and attractiveness, etc. At least that is my recollection of the thread. There are some potential answers for you in that thread.

Whenever two people bicker in a marriage, it is almost always both individuals fault, even if one is more at fault than the other.

A common dynamic occurs when one marriage partner is either immature, or has a mental disability that prevents them from acting maturely - the other person naturally falls into a role of having to parent the other. I found this happening in my past marriage, and I resented it greatly. I did not want to be a father to my lover. Talk about killing any feelings of feeling physically attractive!!!

Sorting out whether your H is immature because of his mother, or if his mother filled in because he wouldn't grow up is a moot point. It may answer some questions, but it won't necessarily provide the solution (but it can provide insight). The solution from my perspective is moving forward and developing appropriate relationship skills (for both of you). Your task is looking into your own ability to do so, and finding out if he is willing or capable of doing such, and then making up your mind of whether you can live with the answer (if it turns out you or he are not willing to step up).

You two are also caught in the power struggles so typical of early relationships. It's lasted to long, and it will tear you two apart eventually if not solved. You two are doing damage to the relationship and chipping away at your foundation each time you get into these big arguments without finding resolutions. BOTH of you need to ask yourselves what is more important - being right, or solving the problem. (see Winning the Argument or Solving the Problem: Which Do You Want?)

This is a growing experience. Realize you may or may not ever resolve it. You may end up having an even better marriage because of it, or it may end in divorce. Either way, keep our Heavenly Father's plan in front of you, and find out what it is that He wants you to learn from this. Have meekness that struggles like the one you are a huge part of why we are here on this earth - learn and grow from it, and all these things will be for your good.

[Tarnished]

I would like to second what both posters have said so far. I agree that you need to get to a marriage counselor, it sounds like you two really need to do some serious work on communication skills and a marriage counselor will help with that.

In my own marriage I have found times where I feel like my husband is acting like a child, I have tried to find ways around this. There is often a way around any stubborn person you just have to find the right direction to approach them from.

The issue of arguing all the time could impact your fertility issues because stress can have a big impact on getting pregnant and dealing with all the rigmarole that fertility treatments bring only adds to the stress levels that are already in your life. (My husband and I have also gone through fertility treatments so I know where you are coming from)

As the other posters have mentioned find ways to diffuse the arguments and get to a marriage counselor. And remember, above all this is not your fault, as ryanh said when two people fight it is really both people’s fault, now you just need to figure out how to fix it together.

[crazypotato]

Yes, it is both of your faults that you are arguing, and there is nothing in your post that I see that is not pretty normal and fixable.

You have faults and he has faults. What he says about you is probably true and what you say about him is probably true. And infertility, I have been through that too. (BTW, I highly, highly recommend acupuncture to treat infertility. I know it sounds crazy but it is actually valid and really helps).

Will you please read a book called "Fascinating Womanhood" by Helen Andelin. You will either hate it or love it. I have had a huge change in my marriage once I read it. It is by an LDS author but not an LDS book. The best parts of the book on how men think and what annoys men the most in a marriage. Then there are chapters on how to be a good wife. It is very 1950s but try and read it with an open mind. It has a LOT of truth in it on male/female differences.

Or if you can't stomach that book, try Dr Laura's "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands". It sounds annoying but it has, I have heard, very good perspective into how men think. In my opinion, she oversimplifies men and their needs, but I think it still has a realistic message.

You can email me privately anytime about infertility or the books. I would be happy to help you. You sound like a very humble person because you are willing to admit your faults, and you need to start working on your faults and walking away from arguments, rather than engaging in them. Then start reading up in those books. In my opinion, they worked 100 times better than several marriage counselors that I am embarrassed to say I tried.

Edited July 7, 2010 by crazypotato

[crazypotato]

It sounds to me like he has personality traits that rub you the wrong way. These traits are not your fault. Your reaction to them is.

Now, not having children means that you won't know how to handle his childish behaviour in the best manner. I reccomend treating him like a dog, pavlovian training. Reward him when he does good, withold rewards when he does not.

Not feeling sexy, maybe head over to the Open Forum, and have a chat there. Without delving too much, you may be able to boost your own self-confidance independant of him. Do what you want to improve your life. Unfortunately until he remembers why he married you, you will need to make your own happiness.

Also consider this. His father has been dying for a long time, and this is not easy. My dad was dying slowly since I was about twelve or so, he passed away not long after I was married 7 years ago. The depression that comes with that is not to be ignored or underestimated. Part of me thinks he needs you to be strong while he sorts himself out. Sure, he needs to man-up, but he's just experienced a terrible loss. Help him as best you can.

I agree that you need to be a lot more considerate of the fact that he lost his dad. And I also agree that he is not going to fill your needs and make you happy. Women notoriously go to their husbands to fill their needs first. This is a common mistake. No matter who your husband is, you should always go to Christ first to fill your needs, and you will find yourself much less irritated and disappointed in other people when you learn to do this. Your husband and anybody will always be imperfect but Christ is perfect.

[Twisted_Fairytales]

We have fertility issues too, its not because you are arguing though!!! :shock: I hope you find out what is wrong soon as we endured a cycle of IVF and it is very tough you have to be a string couple to deal with it. Hopefully it wont come to that but just giving u a tip from someone whos been there

However, I think you should definitely sort out your issues before you have a baby. Me and my DH have similar issues at times perhaps not to the degree you do, but the usul couple stuff about both of us feeling underappreciated or hard done by. Counselling seems to be the best option for you both. Good luck!

[Emmaline]

Thank you everyone!