converts leaving the church

[dahlia]

Interesting posts about cliques. My sister joined 2 churches (same denomination) one after the other because the women were such gossips and in cliques. I don't think she goes at all anymore. I know gossip and such would turn me off. I'm also not interested in babies (my son is grown) and don't want to coo over a stranger's baby. I'm not antisocial; I'd just like to work on a project with some lively women while the kids are somewhere else.

We lost my husband when my son was a young teen. Over the years I have tried to get him to think about joining some kind of church. I really didn't care which, it just seemed like he was looking for the kind of girl who isn't in bars, etc. and I thought he needed something outside of himself to think about. He just isn't into it, however. He still feels God took his father and that's the end of that. On an intellectual level, he knows you don't always get what you ask for, but on an emotional level, he asked God to save his father and it didn't happen. Talking about religion to him has been like hitting my head on a brick wall ever since. Sigh.

[Cassiopeia]

I- am a convert.

So I'm fairly certain I can speak with authority on this. At least for myself anyway. I joined when I was 18. That's 34 years ago next week. Getting TO church isn't always the easiest thing when you first join depending on where you live. I wasn't inactive, I didn't leave the church. I lived 10 miles out of town and had no way of getting there if the nearest family wasn't going.

Statistics lie. They tell us what we do and don't want to hear.

The truth is, Everyone and that means converts and born in the church members leave for their own reasons and really I'd feel a lot more comfortable talking about why I left the church in 2002 but came back in 2009 if you all were converts and had similar experiences too.

As is, when I was open in another thread, I got attacked. I don't know if you realize it but talking about people like this and speculating is offensive. I think it would be better if you ASKED converts directly about their reasons and experiences and not those who haven't never been a convert.

Edited July 30, 2010 by Cassiopeia

[Guest]

I'm a convert.

Possible reasons for converts leaving:

1.) They got baptized due to family pressure (more than likely a spouse).

2.) They loved the attention the missionaries were giving them, they get baptized, the missionaries move on, the ward fall short on fellowship. Yeah, this has been mentioned in detail here.

3.) They got the missionary discussions and have a basic understanding of the restoration, loved it, agreed with it, got baptized, and then they find out about... oh, let's say, that Joseph Smith had all those wives...

4.) They get baptized, a week later they get a calling to teach Relief Society, get assigned a home teaching route, and asked to give a talk in Sacrament meeting, they chicken out.

5.) Their house got struck by Hurricane Katrina, LDS folks fixes their house, they get baptized out of obligation, promptly leaves after that feeling of obligation passes.

6.) They get baptized, a month later, they get baptized... as a Catholic... another month later, they become... Wiccan.

[FunkyTown]

Yes many leave but more stay.

LDS Church Stake Growth

Every person who leaves the church leaves a hole that can't be filled by another convert. Every empty chair is a direct failure of both the person leaving and the church. We all have to do what we can to make people feel welcome.

[mnn727]

It's strange to think of them as sinful literally rather than figuratively.

They are not sinful in and of themselves, you have Covenanted to not partake of them, thus if you do partake you are breaking a Covenant.

[mnn727]

Apparently there are "new member lessons" that are suppose to help people make the transition into LDS, but I never received those. I've been a member for a year now, and I still haven't received a visit from my home teacher. It wasn't until 7 months after I joined the church that I finally learned what visiting teaching was, and the teacher who was assigned to me never called or visited. She would just copy the message out of Ensign and send it to me in the mail.

Please talk to your Bishop or Relief Society President about this. You need to be assigned Home Teachers that actually do their duty, you also need to be given the new member lessons, even if you've been in the Church a year.

Do you know who your home teachers and visiting teachers are? do you see them at Church? if so, go up to them and introduce yourself and ask them when they are available to come over and home teach. -- I know it shouldn't be up to you, but I've found occasionally that this is what it takes.

Edited July 30, 2010 by mnn727

[mnn727]

As a convert myself (17 years as of tomorrow 7/31) Its a major life change.

You must learn a whole new language (things specific to the Church), develop new habits, get rid of old habits and sometimes the friends that go with those habits. You may be the only family member in the Church. Its culture shock.

I had a family that lived nearby that kind of adopted me and worked me through the life changes. President Hinckley was correct, every convert needs a friend

[ryanh]

Having joined the church just a little over 20 years ago, I can understand well the struggles it is to make the changes necessary and stay active. Where it is necessary to make significant life changes (be they quitting smoking, keeping the Sabbath holy, porn, etc, etc) in order to be reconciled to the new truths in one's life, many falter. The true Gospel of Jesus Christ is not a casual thing. It is life altering if we obtain a testimony of the truth that God has restored the fullness of the Gospel on the earth.

An axiom that seems to be applicable to conversion, as it is to so many other activities in life is: A person gets out of something what they put into it.

Another issue is that of misplaced expectations. Having received a testimony of the truthfulness of the restored Gospel, many hope/expect a zionist society. Unfortunately, while the Gospel is true, the people in it are just as fallible as you/me when we join. As Elder Maxwell was fond of saying, we are each other's clinical material upon which we practice the virtues of forgiveness and charity. One should not expect to join the church and never have interpersonal struggles with others.

Quickly forgotten by those who are offended is the fact that the Church is “for the perfecting of the saints” (Eph. 4:12); it is not a well-provisioned rest home for the already perfected.

Likewise, unremembered by some is the reality that in the kingdom we are each other’s clinical material; the Lord allows us to practice on each other, even in our imperfections. And each of us knows what it is like to be worked on by a “student” rather than a senior surgeon. Each of us, however unintentionally, has also inflicted some pain. Elder Neal A. Maxwell

[Cassiopeia]

I really like your quote Ryanh. I had been looking for something like it. I've heard people say over and over again that people who leave just get offended too easily and that we shouldn't let ourselves get offended.

But there's a flipside to that. People are not capable of controlling others actions and yes, we in our imperfections have and will do things that offend others. It is our responsibility as Latter-day Saints to examine our actions towards others and be accountable for what we do and say.

Some offenses to others are so grievous that we cause others to stumble and falter in their faith. It is unthinkable that we can simply say, they shouldn't let someone offend them but put their trust in God and expect that to be simply done.

I have a theory about being a new member. Those who join with faithful heart and sincere actions are often disillusioned by the actions of other members. They come through those doors with rose coloured glasses on and we in our ignorance of our own actions, rip them from them and shock them into reality.

Have we forgotten that we have a sacred duty to not just spread the gospel of Jesus Christ but to also be loving, honest and forthright in our fellowship? It shouldn't be forced upon us, we should do it willingly. We aren't just here to convert but to support and sustain our new members as well. And in doing so, we ourselves are refreshed and renewed.

[kimiko]

Please talk to your Bishop or Relief Society President about this. You need to be assigned Home Teachers that actually do their duty, you also need to be given the new member lessons, even if you've been in the Church a year.

Do you know who your home teachers and visiting teachers are? do you see them at Church? if so, go up to them and introduce yourself and ask them when they are available to come over and home teach. -- I know it shouldn't be up to you, but I've found occasionally that this is what it takes.

I've already done this, on numerous occasions. The visiting teaching situation finally got taken care of, but still no home teachers. On Sundays, our home teacher would come up to us after Sacrament and tell us that he would be calling us to set up an appointment that week, but we would never hear from him. He just recently moved to another state, and I haven't been told yet who is taking his place.

[mnn727]

I've already done this, on numerous occasions. The visiting teaching situation finally got taken care of, but still no home teachers. On Sundays, our home teacher would come up to us after Sacrament and tell us that he would be calling us to set up an appointment that week, but we would never hear from him. He just recently moved to another state, and I haven't been told yet who is taking his place.

I am sorry that has been the case, it is every Priesthood bearers duty to home teach the people they are assigned to. I know some people fail in that.

We just had a new family moved into my ward, I was assigned to be their H.T. and called them the first month they were in the ward, they said that in 7 years that they had been married I was the first home teacher that had ever showed up -- I am NOT trying to blow my own horn, just to let you know that I do know it does happen. That saddens me as its so basic and so easy to do, I have a hard time understanding why someone can't take 30 minutes or so a month to see how someone is doing and share a short gospel message.

I mean if you see someone at Church, rather than telling them you'll call to make an appointment -- just make the appointment while you are standing there.

Now on the other hand, and we've talked about this in our Bishopric meetings, some people do not make it easy for the H.T.'s to come over - they're constantly not available or don't return phone calls, etc (NOT saying this is the case, but there is sometimes a flip side)

Edited July 30, 2010 by mnn727

[kimiko]

I mean if you see someone at Church, rather than telling them you'll call to make an appointment -- just make the appointment while you are standing there.

Exactly! He would always come up with an excuse not to: wife has his calendar, not sure when he can do it, etc. And this guy was the Elders Quorum President too!

I think a lot of long-term members don't truly understand how much us new people need them for guidance and support.

[Wingnut]

I mean if you see someone at Church, rather than telling them you'll call to make an appointment -- just make the appointment while you are standing there.

No everyone has their schedule or calendar in their pocket. Not everyone even has a cell phone, much less a smart phone. Some people still use paper calendars. I manage my appointments and activities in Google Calendar, but I have a pre-paid cell, which certainly does not have syncing capabilities.

[Cassiopeia]

Exactly! He would always come up with an excuse not to: wife has his calendar, not sure when he can do it, etc. And this guy was the Elders Quorum President too!

I think a lot of long-term members don't truly understand how much us new people need them for guidance and support.

With respect, I think you are expecting too much of them. Being an Elder's Quorum President doesn't mean he can answer you right then and there. And people have lives and jobs outside of church callings and attendance.

This is hardly a reason for leaving the church.

[crazypotato]

I just think that both sides, the new convert and the ward need to work together in a realistic manner. Just because a guy is an EQ president, for example, doesn't mean that he even understands the importance of home teaching.

I didn't understand the importance of it or visiting teaching for a long time until I started moving a lot as a newlywed into wards where I knew no one.

And as Mormon from Utah, I can tell you that lots of people don't want their home teachers or visiting teachers to come, so it makes the home teachers/visiting teachers paranoid sometimes that they are bothering someone and infringing on their time. I think a lot of people do not understand the reason for or concept behind home and visiting teaching and therefore don't understand the importance. If you have never had a home teacher come a lot or care about you, then maybe you have no idea what they are even for.

[Cassiopeia]

And as Mormon from Utah, I can tell you that lots of people don't want their home teachers or visiting teachers to come, so it makes the home teachers/visiting teachers paranoid sometimes that they are bothering someone and infringing on their time. I think a lot of people do not understand the reason for or concept behind home and visiting teaching and therefore don't understand the importance. If you have never had a home teacher come a lot or care about you, then maybe you have no idea what they are even for.

Now I can see that. And I also have the flipside.

I love my VT and HTs. Problem is, I have one visiting teacher who thinks it's okay to call me every sunday I miss church and blurt out, "I didn't see you in church today, why weren't you there?"

I let it go for a long time this last year, but then it got to where I felt she was expecting me to be accountable to her for my attendance. And though I'm sure she didn't realize, it was intrusive. But I adore her. So I gave her a basket of lavender from my gardens, wrote a lovely note telling her how much I love and appreciate her. That I must ask her however to stop calling every time. (lately its been six weeks with my fibro and now my ruptured disc).

I have a hometeacher who is rude and mean. I like it when he doesn't come.

There's a cooperative effort between members and there's a fine line between expecting too much of each other or being too pushy.

[Guest mirancs8]

For those who feel left out after baptism, did you join the Relief Society or other activities? It seems there are so many things to do that even without a home visit (personally, I think I can do without that), there are ways to be active in the Church and the activity would help you feel more connected. I could be wrong.

Thanks for the considered responses.

I was baptized earlier this year and I can see how someone can get lost or feel like they don't fit in. It's an entirely different culture and for someone who is a life long (or from a young age) member I would imagine it's not easy to understand the feeling.

For me I just make sure I stay very active in the church. I go to all the meetings, volunteer whenever I get the opportunity, I always make a point after RS to have a quick "how are you doing" chat with the RS president and the Bishops wife, I try to sit next to someone new in RS when I can (sometimes they find me first ), I always take my Tithing directly to the Bishop just so I can say hi, whenever their is a party (Christmas and such) I am sure to attend, and I've even went as far as to stop over someones house to just say hello.

The more you are social and active the more people get comfortable with you too. Sometimes I'll admit I don't feel very social and that's OK but most of the time I put a huge effort in consider they all put a huge effort in for me before, during, and immediately after my baptism. Now it's my turn. I can't expect them to always reach out to me I have to do my part as well. Being active makes a big difference.

I've had some great experiences but one in particular stands out. We were having a combined meeting at church so me being without a husband felt a little out of place (this was early on BTW shortly after I was baptized). This woman who I only knew from my GP class just clicked with me... we immediately connected. Well she was sitting with her husband and infant and as I was walking in to sit down her and her husband waved me over to sit next to them... they had even saved me a seat. Though wouldn't seem like anything important it definitely touched me.

[beefche]

So I gave her a basket of lavender from my gardens, wrote a lovely note telling her how much I love and appreciate her.

If I start bugging you will you send me some fresh lavender??? I LOVE fresh lavender.

[mnn727]

No everyone has their schedule or calendar in their pocket. Not everyone even has a cell phone, much less a smart phone. Some people still use paper calendars. I manage my appointments and activities in Google Calendar, but I have a pre-paid cell, which certainly does not have syncing capabilities.

is your life so full of activites that on a Sunday you are not aware of what free time you have that week? if so perhaps you have too much on your plate.

In my opinion if your activites keeps you from doing your duty then its time to cut back.

[Wingnut]

is your life so full of activites that on a Sunday you are not aware of what free time you have that week? if so perhaps you have too much on your plate.

In my opinion if your activites keeps you from doing your duty then its time to cut back.

I know a man who is a corporate executive. He travels -- in a normal month -- about two and a half weeks out of four. His wife can't keep track of where he is half the time, whether he's still in Minnesota, or if he's back in Pittsburgh, or visiting his father in Long Beach while on business there. Currently, he is traveling back and forth from the UK, where he is working 2-3 weeks a month and back in the US 1-2 weeks a month. This will be about a normal schedule for the next 4-5 months, until they can hire a UK replacement. He is the bishop of his ward, and somehow manages to only miss one, maybe two Sundays a month, though he is still very connected and contactable while he's traveling. He has three children. Two are grown and moved out, but he still has a 17-year-old son at home, who participates in soccer, swim team, and tennis, each in their respective seasons. During the Summer, this young man has been to the National BSA Jamboree, to the Poconos with his Scout troop, EFY, and a number of other activities, not to mention taking college placement standardized tests (he got a perfect 36 on the ACT, by the way).

Do you honestly believe that this man should be released from his calling because his life and family activities -- which existed before his calling was extended -- should be released because he can't keep track of his schedule in his head?

[mnn727]

Do you honestly believe that this man should be released from his calling because his life and family activities -- which existed before his calling was extended -- should be released because he can't keep track of his schedule in his head?

No, where'd you get the idea I think he should be released from his calling? (but to expect him to accept a calling to become a bishop would be silly) I am saying he needs to cut back on his activities if he can not get his home teaching done.

I also think that someone who is that busy would need to know what his schedule is in advance and know that he has (and keep) one night or weekend afternoon free a month to do his home teaching. I mean does this guy really does not know on Sunday that he's going to be out of the country for two weeks starting on Monday? And if he told his EQ Pres (or HP GL) that he's out of the country for 3 weeks a month perhaps his EQ Pres would assign easier families to schedule to home teach? Our YM's President (a father of 5) is in China 2 weeks every month on business, we make sure that he has the people to back him up in his calling and that he has some easier families assigned to him to schedule for Home Teaching. Those Brothers and Sisters with an easy schedule can take the hard to reach/visit families for HT/VT.

We have been asked to keep one evening free a week for family activities (FHE) somehow I think keeping some time free for Home Teaching once a month is just as imporant.

Edited July 31, 2010 by mnn727

[kimiko]

With respect, I think you are expecting too much of them. Being an Elder's Quorum President doesn't mean he can answer you right then and there. And people have lives and jobs outside of church callings and attendance.

This is hardly a reason for leaving the church.

I don't think expecting that he fulfill his duties as a home teacher is too much. I was never expecting him to answer me on the spot. But at least one visit in over a year would have been nice...

Also I didn't say it was a reason for leaving the church. My point was that new comers often feel left out and lost after their baptism, and visiting/home teachers can help with that.

[Wingnut]

I am saying he needs to cut back on his activities if he can not get his home teaching done.

Having a busy schedule and not knowing every detail of it off the top of one's head is no excuse for not going one's home or visiting teaching. I'm not arguing with that. What I'm suggesting is that we have telephones and email -- why is it a bad thing to use them? Why does one have to make the appointment while at Church? Do you think a bishop doesn't already have enough to do on Sundays? If someone says that they'll call during the week, and then doesn't, that's their own problem. But it's unfair to expect everyone to be able to make an appointment on the spot.

(BTW, the man I spoke of expressed his concerns about his schedule when he was extended the call as bishop. He wasn't back and forth from the UK nearly as much at that point, but the stake president was aware of his schedule and travel limitations and still extended the call.)

[mnn727]

Having a busy schedule and not knowing every detail of it off the top of one's head is no excuse for not going one's home or visiting teaching. I'm not arguing with that. What I'm suggesting is that we have telephones and email -- why is it a bad thing to use them? Why does one have to make the appointment while at Church? Do you think a bishop doesn't already have enough to do on Sundays? If someone says that they'll call during the week, and then doesn't, that's their own problem. But it's unfair to expect everyone to be able to make an appointment on the spot.

I didn't say everyone has to make their appointments on Sunday. All I was saying is that if someone can't or won't call during the week after saying they would, then he could make the appointment in person on Sunday when he is already talking to the person which was the deal this particular case.

I have one family that never answers their phone and never calls back (why? I don't know, but they just don't and I have learned that), so guess what -- I make the appointment when I see them at Church and I get to visit them every month that way. I go to Church knowing what my schedule is with a couple possible days open and free just in case one or more days/times don;t work out for them.

Its not rocket science -- for families that want (or at least accept) home teacers in their home, make an appointment any way you can and keep it.

Edited July 31, 2010 by mnn727

[Cassiopeia]

If I start bugging you will you send me some fresh lavender??? I LOVE fresh lavender.

LOL..There's always one in every crowd. LOL

I don't think expecting that he fulfill his duties as a home teacher is too much. I was never expecting him to answer me on the spot. But at least one visit in over a year would have been nice...

Also I didn't say it was a reason for leaving the church. My point was that new comers often feel left out and lost after their baptism, and visiting/home teachers can help with that.

I think it's only the Lord's place to EXPECT anything of us. The rest of us should be grateful for what we get. You might have asked him why he didn't make it more often?