Atonement doesn't make sense Part 2

[Justice]

OK so we need to be punished for what we do wrong... then why is it that we cannot take the punishment and when finished with it, move on. It seems like from what I get, when we are judged we are screwed and no matter how long we are punished we can never continue on. And the only way to move on is to accept Jesus or else.

God judges us for the one Planck (note for the uneducated that is the smallest measurement of time there is) we are here on earth and then we are punished eternally for that minute segment of time forever. Somewhat similar to me taking a second and if my kids were doing something wrong at that second, locking them in a closet for the rest of their lives, or if they were doing something good rewarding them for the rest of their lives.

To me this is definitely NOT a fair and "loving" way for god to treat us. We should be able to continue to progress and eventually ALL become "gods" instead of a lucky few, while the rest of us are screwed over by the big guy.

Alma 41 and 42.

It's not just that we "did stuff wrong," it's that we "became something" as we did. If we are not repentant then we have not changed our behavior, meaning we will continue that behavior.

When we are resurrected we will be "restored" good for good and evil for evil. You cannot snap a finger and make something that that chooses evil choose good. We must make this choice with our agency. We must repent of our evil actions, AND THEN Christ's atonement can be applied because we must covenant to sin no more. That state is seldom achieved here on earh, but we must be moving in that dirtection, and have had a change of heart.

Alma 41 and 42.

[Traveler]

Alma 41 and 42.

It's not just that we "did stuff wrong," it's that we "became something" as we did. If we are not repentant then we have not changed our behavior, meaning we will continue that behavior.

When we are resurrected we will be "restored" good for good and evil for evil. You cannot snap a finger and make something that that chooses evil choose good. We must make this choice with our agency. We must repent of our evil actions, AND THEN Christ's atonement can be applied because we must covenant to sin no more. That state is seldom achieved here on earh, but we must be moving in that dirtection, and have had a change of heart.

Alma 41 and 42.

I like to think of these things in terms of what we enjoy – perhaps even more than that which we do. Most people do not enjoy involving themseslves in most sins. However, most of us have a couple of sins we really like or have become somewhat attached to and therefore quite comfortable.

On the other hand most of us enjoy doing most good things but there are a couple of good things we really do not like or have become somewhat uncomfortable with. I believe that Alma refers to these things we enjoy that are the great danger to our eternal salvation in the Celestial Kingdom.

The Traveler

[HEthePrimate]

Hi

Lets try this again, can anyone explain the atonement? Just a simple why it was needed?

Why can't Heavenly father just forgive us without the atonement?

Quick disclaimer: I have not read every post in this thread (these threads get so long!), so I hope I'm not repeating what anybody else has said, and if something I say has already been addressed, my apologies.

First of all, I think 'atonement' is not just what happened in the garden of Gethsemane and on the Cross. I think of it as an ongoing process that Jesus modeled for us his entire life, and that we ourselves can, and should, participate in. It literally means at-one-ment, or becoming one with God and our fellow beings. Jesus' entire life was a process of atonement, and showing us how to do it.

Second, I'm not convinced the execution/murder of Jesus Christ was a part of God's plan or required by Him in any way. Rather, I think it was required by us, and our need for a scapegoat to suffer and die for our sins. In that sense, it was necessary to meet our needs, but not required by God himself. God can, and does, simply forgive people without requiring punishment, and he expects us to do the same. The Passion is an example of Jesus teaching that by example. Jesus was innocent of any wrongdoing, and yet he allowed himself to be tortured and murdered rather than lash out and punish the real criminals. What a powerful statement of God's love and revelation of God's character!

Peace.

HEP