For prisonchaplain

[martybess]

prisonchaplain has anyone pointed you to this before? Kinda long though.

Couldn't help myself.

Why I Believe Episode 20 - Programs - Mormon Channel

[prisonchaplain]

I will check on this soon.

[prisonchaplain]

I listened to the first section, in which the pentecostal minister explains the key differences he saw between the LDS faith and what he had. They are:

1. He is Oneness--meaning, he believes that Jesus is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. That Jesus simply appears in different modes, but that the Godhead is all just Jesus. I would note that this doctrine, though different from LDS teaching, is also non-traditional. Thus, he would likely be more receptive to new revelation that classic trinitarian pentecostals.

2. He was an independent minister. He started his own church, without any denominational oversight, and based his teachings on what he grew up with.

3. He noted the unity of LDS teaching and practice. True enough. Since all LDS official teaching comes from one source, and is thoroughly vetted, there will not be anywhere near the variation that one would find in any other denomination.

Interesting stuff...I'm getting to how they got to know each other. Up front, I'll tell you that I am curious. Generally, we would discourage our members from being "unequally yoked," with those who do not practice our faith. For a minister to marry an LDS lady is frankly, quite bizzarre. I guess I will learn more as I hear the story.

[Dravin]

He is Oneness--meaning, he believes that Jesus is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. That Jesus simply appears in different modes, but that the Godhead is all just Jesus. I would note that this doctrine, though different from LDS teaching, is also non-traditional. Thus, he would likely be more receptive to new revelation that classic trinitarian pentecostals.

I know this is a duh question, but that's modalism right? (The big hint here being different 'modes').

[prisonchaplain]

I know this is a duh question, but that's modalism right? (The big hint here being different 'modes').

To invoke a deep, theologicaly pregnant word, in response...BINGO! :)

[prisonchaplain]

OK...homework done! Seriously...if I can hope that people will listen to my audio-homilies, I can return the courtesy. This story is striking to me. Some observations:

1. Rev. Page does not appear to have been highly-trained in Oneness Pentecostal apologetics. When the Stake President asked him who it was he thought Jesus was praying to in the Garden of Gethsemene, I kept thinking he had to have an answer. It's a common question that trinitarians also ask.

From the United Pentecostal Church International's website (Bro. Page mentions this church in the story) I found this answer on a very similar line of questioning--what was happening at Jesus' baptism, if only he is God?

56. Can Trinitarians show that three divine persons were present when Jesus was baptized by John? Absolutely not. The one, omnipresent God used three simultaneous manifestations. Only one divine person was present--Jesus Christ the Lord.

It's not my belief--so no need to debate here. However, I was surprised that Bro. Page seemed to be caught flat-footed with that inquiry. It could be that he simply always ministered with accepting believers, and never really faced serious theological challenges.

2. Bro. Page was a minister for quite a short time. I do not want to read between the lines too much, but he also mentioned being divorced. Could be that his ministers' credentials were taken from him. Not sure, but it would not be too personal or judgmental for me to surmize that he went through some very difficult times over this.

3. Both husband and wife here showed a good amount of flexibility over the command not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers in marriage. Granted, both were believers in the broad sense. Yet, they were members of churches that do not recognize one another's baptisms. Then again, Bro. Page was not in consistent fellowship with any single congregation at the point of their meeting.

So, I suppose my bottom line is that I am pleased these two found love in each other, and joy in their union. On the other hand, it would seem that Bro. Page's conversion was preceded by some very serious spiritual turmoil.

[Just_A_Guy]

To invoke a deep, theologicaly pregnant word, in response...BINGO! :)

"Theologically pregnant" is, I think, my new favorite phrase.

[martybess]

I thought the first half was slow. It's cool that's he's serving in a leadership position now in his ward with the perspective he has. Godhead, Priesthood, Prophets, Temples, etc. Really cool ending. His message, LOVE.

[prisonchaplain]

I do find that conversion stories are usually profoundly moving. Also, it is good to see that he took President Hinkley's admonition to treasure what he brought to the church, rather than to hold bitterness towards it. Bro. Page's suggestion to just be friendly to visitors/investigators is so simple, and yet so profoundly true.

[Giant_Son]

Nice analysis, PC.