Prayer/being Lead By God?

[Dr T]

Hello all,

On the Advice forum, Franklen posted a thread called "How Can It Be The End." Please read the OP there and then respond to these questions. I didn't want to post my questions there for fear of derailing his thread and changing his focus in a difficult time so I decided to bring it here. (Is this the right place or should I have put it on the Gospel forum?)

OK. As you read, basically, Franklen has a very good, female friend. He developed feelings for her and told her he did. She didn’t have the same feelings and subsequently, Franklen found another girl. His friend now feels hurt whenever she sees them together. She told Franklen that she has prayed about it and God told her that “It wouldn’t work out between them” (their friendship).

I would like to ask some questions now instead of later because asking later gives confounding variables and time to rationalize any outcome. We often see things 20/20 after the event. I'm not interested in answers that say "Well that was God's plan all along" on this topic (which can be a realistic response but that is another topic). I’m not asking about God’s plans in this thread. I'm interested in how board members understand situations like this and the process before and during the praying.

My questions are related to prayer/feeling God's leading. As Franken said, "...she [Rachel] prayed about it and the lord told her things weren't going to work out between us." He now plans on praying and seeking guidance from God on this issue. Here are my questions for the group:

(These questions are not meant to be answered one at a time. They were put together as examples of the the process and how one understands the overall concept) How does one know for sure when God communicates to you? How do we know that it is not just a feeling we have used in confirming our own desires? For example, "Rachel" has been hurt by seeing Franklen and another woman together. I assume that Franklen and Rachel have developed an intimate attachment between them and she finds it hard to see him with someone else. How do we know that her feeling is not based on an escape from this pain? What better way than to attribute it to God? (I mean who can argue against God?). Besides, "It wasn't my desire to end our friendship-God told me it wouldn't work and He knows best" type of rationale). What if Franklin prays and gets an opposite message? Both people feel they are talking directly to God and they receive diametrically opposed answers to their prayers, what then? Can we say that these "feelings" were just psychological functions for justifying their own desires? What if he feels God is telling him "to perceiver in this" or the idea that "God wants to teach me something through this so... (add reason/lesson here)." How do you all understand this type of thing and prayer in general?

Thank you,

Dr. T

[mom_of_jcchlsm]

LDS are generally instructed to make a decision first, based on our own feelings or on research or whatever is appropriate for the situation, then pray about it and ask God for confirmation of our decision. Confirmation is pretty easy to recognize: usually you feel so good and full of joy or comfort that you cry. A lack of confirmation is, oddly, much harder to recognize - probably because once you've made up your mind about something, you really want God to confirm it to you. A "no" answer is often described as a feeling of confusion or befuddlement - sometimes a "no" even makes you lose track of what you're asking about. If a person has not firmly made up his mind about an issue before praying about it, he shouldn't be asking for God's confirmation, but rather for guidance in making the decision in the first place. That's not the same as asking God to make the decision for you. Guidance might include anything from putting the right book in your hand at the library to overhearing a conversation on the bus that helps you sort things out.

[shanstress70]

I've often wondered the same thing. And how do you know if it's the correct decision that God supposedly confirmed for you? Lets say I need to make a decision of whether or not I should enroll in school. I decide that yes, I should, and I get confirmation from God. Then I fail school and am in financial distress because of it. Well, since I got confirmation, I would tell myself (and others would tell me) that God had a reason for wanting me to go through that struggle. But maybe I just never got the confirmation from God. Maybe I just REALLY wanted to quit my job and go to school. So of course I would have a good feeling when I prayed about it.

[Winnie G]

It’s the same as the challenge the elders give investigators.

when I meet my now hubby, I ran home, well from my parking space, dropped to my knees, and asked HF if my boyfriend was the one I had been waiting for all my life.

I rose from my knees and climbed in to bed and slept sounder then I had in years.

When I rose, I know my answer. That was 14 years ago.

If you are actively seeking the lords guidance you will recognize his answers but on the other side of this is sometimes we are left to figure it out on our own.

Then you use the gospel standards to guide you to the right answer.

I know it sounds bad but when looking for a husband, look at his family and the standers he was raised by. My grandfather called it “not our sort” (British) I ignored his what I saw as stuck up advice and married twice out of the church and out of our sort.

I know it sounds bad but think about this. On my wedding day, a phone call came in from one of my new husband’s siblings and after a few pleasantries a remark that he was the first one in the family to get married was said. (non of his family was there) When we were finely, alone I asked him what that meant.

It turned out none in his family including his mother had ever married but had three common law husbands and buried all three. He had six brothers and sisters! I pondered this and realized since he was the youngest so that meant his oldest brother was born in the early 50’s. I thought what kind of women in the 50’s lives with men has children but never marries. The voice of my grandfather seemed not so stuck up then.

If you are looking to buy a house, we must fallow the Prophets advice.

Is it the right house or will I be so house poor and eat nothing but hamburger till it’s paid off. (Been there)

We are receiving answers to our prayers by our Prophet leaders and sometimes our family and friends.

Learning who to muddle though it all can be one of life’s biggest challenges of all.

[shanstress70]

when I meet my now hubby, I ran home, well from my parking space, dropped to my knees, and asked HF if my boyfriend was the one I had been waiting for all my life.

I rose from my knees and climbed in to bed and slept sounder then I had in years.

When I rose, I know my answer. That was 14 years ago.

If you are actively seeking the lords guidance you will recognize his answers but on the other side of this is sometimes we are left to figure it out on our own.

But Winnie, don't you think there are people who have done just that, and got a positive answer from the Lord about who they were to marry, whose marriage eventually ended in divorce?

[Winnie G]

That’s were the catch 22 comes in. Free agency

What did they learn from it?

Its like callings given to what you might see is so so wrong person and it is not till you understand that sometimes callings are not given for your benefit but to the person who is called.

I walked away from two painful horrible marriages before I found my eternal companion.

I have seen people suffer horribly before they die, you pray that it will end but for whose benefit? I’ve see it bring estranged family together and draw on each other for strength were not even a friendship existed for years.

Life at times is just that, our lives are only so much ours to lead. What would the Lord need of me? and there are at times were lesions are learned were you’re the object of that lesion.

Do you see what I mean?

My oldest son was adducted (Child molester) and for three days we waited for news of our son. He was returned to us but has never been the same, he was a young men then and he has grown bitter and is not on specking terms with HF.

He has screamed at me “Why me I was a good boy, I did all that was excepted of me, I passed the sacrament every Sunday I went to boy scouts”????????

He has asked me how I could worship a God that let that happen to him?

It is hard to even explain now to him about free agency and there are always victims of these evil doers.

When we look back you can ask him were did all the wonderful councilors come from? Police who saved his life?

I will never forget being told that my baby had been raped repeatedly over a space of three days. It was like I had my world rip out from under me. But there was this long haired under cover police officer there in the hospital to lift me up off the floor and held me. It turned out he was the one who reached my son first wrapped a blanket around my son and took him into the bathroom wile the other officers took this monster away.

He did not let go of our son even in the ambulance he held him on his lap and rocked this 14 year old boy back and forth telling him. “This is not your fault you are a wonderful young men, this was not your fault”

It is that man who saved our sons sanity such as it is.

Not all our answers to our prayers turn out to our benefit.

Eternal marriages work and some don’t, its that catch 22.

[prisonchaplain]

(These questions are not meant to be answered one at a time. They were put together as examples of the the process and how one understands the overall concept) How does one know for sure when God communicates to you? How do we know that it is not just a feeling we have used in confirming our own desires? For example, "Rachel" has been hurt by seeing Franklen and another woman together. I assume that Franklen and Rachel have developed an intimate attachment between them and she finds it hard to see him with someone else. How do we know that her feeling is not based on an escape from this pain? What better way than to attribute it to God? (I mean who can argue against God?). Besides, "It wasn't my desire to end our friendship-God told me it wouldn't work and He knows best" type of rationale). What if Franklin prays and gets an opposite message? Both people feel they are talking directly to God and they receive diametrically opposed answers to their prayers, what then? Can we say that these "feelings" were just psychological functions for justifying their own desires? What if he feels God is telling him "to perceiver in this" or the idea that "God wants to teach me something through this so... (add reason/lesson here)." How do you all understand this type of thing and prayer in general?

First, this is a wonderful set of questions. For Pentecostals/Charismatics who grow up in the church, we take this kind of talk for granted. "I felt led to go talk to so and so." "I just sensed I needed to reject the job transfer." "God was really drawing me to make a sacrificial gift to the missionary fund."

The strangeness of this to those outside our tradition hit me full force a number of years ago. I was at an interfaith economics conference for seminarians, hosted by the Acton Institute (btw, yes a couple of BYU students were in part of the conference). During an evening conversation, one young lady was sharing how she was headed somewhere on campus, and just sensed she needed to go over to the Student Union Building. There she met a classmate, and had a real heart to heart type conversation. After finishing her account, one of the students, a Lutheran I believe, said, "That's the strangest thing I ever heard! Then, with lifted eyebrows, "I guess if it works for you."

We believe that prayer, and "walking in the Spirit," is more than me telling God. I should hear from God. I actually expect God to guide--yes by Scripture, by teachings I sit under, but also by "that still small voice" of the Holy Spirit. Of course, when we sense something, we usually check it with Scripture, consult with spiritually mature mentors, and, if it's serious enough, "test the vision."

I've had three fairly dramatic incidences in my life, of this nature. The first was three years into my stay in Korea. I was an English instructor, and taught Bible studies on a volunteer basis. The studies were well attended, and I had become comfortable. One day, the Holy Spirit clearly spoke to my heart: Tom, you are no longer a volunteer! I'm calling you to this. This is your ministry. You are a missionary, not just a helper or volunteer. I shared this with my leadership team, and on my return to Seattle, contacted an evangelical missions agency that specialized in "tentmaker missions"--those who use secular employment as a means to spreading the gospel. My home church held a commissioning service for me, and I continued my campus ministry with a much greater sense of confidence and calling.

Three years later, during a retreat, God gave me a vision of going to seminary--specifically my own denominational seminary (many evangelicals prefer interdenominational seminaries, for the diversity and breadth they offer). This was nowhere on my radar screen! I had considered getting a masters, in either TESOL or History, but never theology. Again, I bounced this off my mentors and fellow laborers, and they supported my call.

Two and a half years later, I'm in the middle of my studies, and am reading our ministers' newsletter. There is a short blurb about the need for federal prison chaplains, with a number to call. The Holy Spirit simply says, "Check it out!" "Who me? I've never been in trouble. I have no way to relate to such people." "Just check it out." Well, "it" fit like a glove. I've two years volunteer prison work and eight years fulltime chaplaincy behind me now.

Some will find talk of being led by the Spirit, or God speaking to us, strange. Some may even think it dangerous. But, for us who experience it, all we can say is, we're honored that He is Creator of heaven and earth, is also the lover of my soul!