would like some advice... if possible

[Angel_eyes1980]

Hi My name is Debra.. and I am not a LDS member although my friend is.. and she is having a really tough time right now and I am not sure how best to advise her or help her. I found your forum via google and thought you could possibly give me some advice on how best to handle this situation or at least help her through it.

As I said both her and her husband are LDS members, very nice people. But 16 yrs ago he made a stupid mistake, he repented and she forgave him they got married and had a beautiful family. Live was good for her, it was tough at times like everyone's lives are but then the bomb hit.

They have a facebook account and via that they found out that the girl in question did it would appear have a child 15yrs ago. There is no date of birth listed for the child but the child looks to be about the right age. Now my friend is driving herself mad, with unanswered questions. She is blaming her husband for not finding out whether there was a child, and she is just going through hell really she is also scared that the woman as she is now might track them down via facebook and instigate CSA proceedings against them. She says the only reason that the woman might not have done that is because she didn't know where to find them.

I did suggest that she contact the woman in question explain her fears and see what the other woman has to say. After all my friend has done nothing wrong, and I don't think any one would mind that. So my friend did, and the response she got was, "I don't have to explain anything to you or your husband, I certainly have no intention of telling you who my child's father is... that is something your husband should have worried about 16yrs ago instead of hiding behind his bishop and his church and leaving others to do his dirty work. I couldn't care less how you feel or your husband feels and the only reason you are contacting me now is you are scared that I will start CSA proceedings against you and your husband will have 15yrs of back payments to pay. Now go away"

But she ( my friend) is in awful turmoil. She is losing weight and can't sleep for fear of CSA paperwork dropping through the door.

Any advice would be gratefully received as I do not know what to suggest

[slamjet]

My suggestion is to stay out of it. Be there as a shoulder to cry on, and a sounding board to listen to their frustrations, but there is nothing you can really do.

I don't know how things happen in the UK, but in the US, there will, or should be attorneys involved, paternity tests, visitation agreements, out of court settlements, etc, etc, etc. It may get ugly.

[Iggy]

<<snip>>It may get ugly.

Or it may go no where - unless he was named on the birth certificate, she will have to prove paternity.

[slamjet]

Or it may go no where - unless he was named on the birth certificate, she will have to prove paternity.

Yea, I forgot to put that in there, but UK laws dealing with this issue may be more liberal, or not, than in the US.

[NeuroTypical]

I'm thinking 'stay out of it' is the best advice. Wish everyone the best, hold your friend if she needs holding, and watch it go by.

[Angel_eyes1980]

Hi and thank you for replying to me.

I don't think I explained myself very well in the initial post.. I apologise for that. I am trying to be very careful about what I say, because I don't know if any of my friend's church members might be reading this.

I would stay out of it but at the moment my friend is staying in my spare room and refusing to communicate with her husband after he admitted that he knew the girl in question was pregnant, but he said she had told him she was getting an abortion and so he never bothered finding out if there was a child. He also refuses to ask the woman because he says it is not for him to ask - she should have told him.

My friend feels totally betrayed by all of this.. especially her husband's hard uncaring attitude. This is why she is staying with me. Which is far from an ideal situation not because I do not want her, but because I feel a bit helpless. I thought about getting my priest round to chat with her, but I did not know if that would be appropriate, but I do not know any other Mormons that I could turn to for asistance.

What I would really like is someone to suggest some scriptures from the Book of Mormon or any of your church related materials that will help her spiritually. I do not know the Book of Mormon and so I do not know which would be appropriate.

I am sorry I am being so vague, it is just a difficult situation.

[mightynancy]

She needs to work this out with her husband. I would not encourage her to contact the woman directly. You may advise her to talk to a counselor. If her husband is that flippant about whether the child is his, she has married an immature man.

Here's the deal - *if* her husband is that child's father, he is obligated to provide whatever child support is called for. That is part of his moral responsibility; if they are active members, they ought to know that.

If I were in your position, I'd encourage my friend to work this out with a marriage and family counselor. She can't just hide out and think it will go away.

[slamjet]

It's also a sign that she never really dealt with it in the first place. I'm not sure how betrayed she should feel if she knew this was out there. And as for her husbands coldness to the situation, I can only surmise that he's compartmentalizing it (a typical man thing to do) because he's confused and lost about this situation. He understood one thing then out of the blue, something else. It's a tough thing to digest.

I'd stick with the original advice and mightynancy's advice. Don't get between them, don't get deeply involved, and if you want to give some advice, right now she needs to take care of herself before she deals with her husband. Have her regularly see and talk to her Bishop. Also, if possible, have her see a professional counselor. Make sure she attends church, read her scriptures and pray regularly. It may sound overly simple, but I can assure you that when life gets all out of whack and complicated, those simple acts create miraculous effects.

You're doing a kind, nice, caring thing by letting her stay with you. It's a mark of a true friend. But a true friend also knows when to back down a bit and let things advance naturally and not try to steer them. For right now, she needs to take care of, and heal herself. It will be wonderful if her marriage survives. But this is something she needs to come to on her own. I know it's painful to watch it all unfold. But your willingness to do so will be a benefit to her in the long run.

[NeuroTypical]

You have nookie, babies sometimes happen. Your friend's hubby cheated on her, and she 'forgave' him. Now a consequence of those indiscretions has shown up. Now she's forced to deal with her forgiveness being a bit less-complete than she originally thought.

She's dealing with it pretty poorly right now, but it's her job to deal with it. Do they have kids together? If they don't have any kids, I don't much care if their marriage falls apart or not. But if there are kids, she needs to get her act together, accept that she's been living in denial about what infidelity can bring into a marriage, and then go back and raise her kids with her husband. He's the same guy she forgave, she's just been in denial about what she was forgiving.

LM

[rameumptom]

Most of the things we worry about never happen. Tell your friend to trust God and put it in His hands. Then not worry about it, unless something really comes up.

CSA usually will not require back payments if the woman has never attempted to contact the father regarding this. It is just as likely it is another's child, and the FB woman is just angry about her own past. Unless the woman seeks payment AND can prove via DNA test that it is the husband's child, don't worry about it. Move forward in life, focusing on being grateful for all the blessings they've received.

[Guest]

Most of the things we worry about never happen. Tell your friend to trust God and put it in His hands. Then not worry about it, unless something really comes up.

CSA usually will not require back payments if the woman has never attempted to contact the father regarding this. It is just as likely it is another's child, and the FB woman is just angry about her own past. Unless the woman seeks payment AND can prove via DNA test that it is the husband's child, don't worry about it. Move forward in life, focusing on being grateful for all the blessings they've received.

When I first read the situation, the bolded part was what I thought the husband was doing - refusing to worry about nothing is a good thing in my book.

But when the bit about him knowing he fathered a child and was callous enough to just presume the baby got aborted and forgot about it, never even bothered to mention this to the girl... that is a big flashing red light. If I was the girl, I would also feel super betrayed by this.

But, the thing about betrayal is - it all comes down to 2 choices - 1.) accept it and stay with the husband, or 2.) reject it and leave the husband. If they have kids then the decision has to include their welfare.

In any case, forgiveness is key - to forgive without reservations. This does not mean that she needs to choose #1. Just because she can forgive him doesn't mean she has to stay with him. But, any kind of healing cannot start without first experiencing the miracle of forgiveness. It truly cleanses the soul.

Here are some stories from the Book of Mormon about forgiveness:

LDS Church News - Book of Mormon examples: Forgiving others

About CSA - if this is truly her husband's son, she shouldn't "fear" CSA - she shouldn't even "wait" for CSA - she should support her husband in offering as much help as her husband's son is willing to take. This will only be possible after forgiveness.

Hope this helps.

Edited December 20, 2010 by anatess

[Angel_eyes1980]

Thank you so much to every one that took the time to reply to me. I was a bit nervous posting here when I am not a member of the church.

Thank you Anatess for the link you provided, I will show her that later this evening.

Last night was a bit awful her husband came over with his father and some other men, I believe they were members of the church but I am not sure. But things did not go well, and eventually her husband's father told him to leave. I think her husband has not been entirely truthful about how far this all went. I mean she knew he had been involved with another person, but not that there the possibility of a child. Her husband is very angry and keeps throwing it back at her saying things like ... " the bishop told me to have no further contact what was I supposed to do?" it was a very upsetting evening for her.

I mean not sure if I believe her husband because in my experience no Bishop in any church would counsel that he ignore the possibility of a child. So I am finding it quite hard to maintain a civil relationship with him. I know that is my issue and I am trying very hard to not let my feelings towards him become a problem.

Her husband's father and the others stayed for about another 45mins and she seemed calmer and slightly more at peace when they left.

Unfortunately there are children involved she has twins young children not babies. And they seem to be Ok with staying with me, its not a new thing for them, they stay on average at least once a month, not because of conflict but because we have been friends for a very long time.

Before leaving her husband father asked if was possible for other members to visit her and support her, of course I said that was fine. And that they are welcome anytime. But even he was shocked at how much weight she has lost, and the pain she is feeling is so visible and you can almost feel it if that makes sense.

But thank you so much for all your helpful advice.

[Guest]

Oh man... having 2 kids... that's really tough. Especially since it's impossible to insulate them from all this with their parents basically separated now.

I feel for you guys. Hope everything goes well. We're praying for your friend's family and for you too - to have the strength to see this through.

[slamjet]

Her Father-In-Law seems like a very level headed guy. He's not blinded by this being his son, but is trying to be real. As for you, I sure wish I had a friend like you. You're great.

As for the situation, I'm getting a sense that you're pointing in the right direction. When crisis's come up, we tend to isolate ourselves. Allowing members and friends visits is a big step and will go a long ways in her healing process. I also want to thank you for not blaming her Church for this mess, but working with it to help her. For letting the Church members come around to help and be with her. I think it's great that you are truly being a huge help for her.

I'm also really impressed that you let her husband in. I know it's hard to be civil, but to let him under your roof after all that you've told us is really remarkable. It truly shows you are staying out of the nuances of the situation (doing your best not to be a judge and jury), but caring about her and her well being. I'd make it a rule and I'm sure you already have) that maybe for now he not be there unless there's a "chaperon," like his father with him. That way there's someone to not only keep things down to a mild roar, but strong enough to end the visit if and when things go bad, like it seems like it did.

I'm getting a sense that you are going about this the right way. I know in this situation it's hard to remember that we have a Father in Heaven who loves us not only as a human race, but he knows each one of us as an individual and truly want's whats best for us. I know from what I've seen with my own ex-wife when I was running amok that he truly blesses and cares for mothers who are true to the faith, protecting and caring for their children and seeking him out for guidance. Please keep reminding her of this. It may not seem like there's much of God there now, but there is. He's a lot more involved in our lives than we think. You are an angel sent from God to her. How much more proof does a person need?

And don't worry about being a non-member and posting to this forum. We accept and listen to all.