Women and priesthood

[Dravin]

that would mean that creating a person out of the dust of the earth would be a priesthood ordnance

The performance of ordinances (as the term is commonly used in the Church) is not the only expression of priesthood authority, so no, it does not automatically follow that because something is an exercise of priesthood that it is a priesthood ordinance.

P.S. Before you go off on some multi-pointed response encompassing the entirety of your post (and its constituent points) from which the quoted section was taken: I am responding directly and only to the quoted statement and not any overall point you may be trying to express.

Edited January 31, 2011 by Dravin

[Suzie]

No priesthood is man's authority to act on behalf of God.

No.

The priesthood is the eternal power and authority of God. and HE gives priesthood authority to worthy men in the Church so they can act in His name.

Not quite the same.

http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?locale=0&sourceId=ab839daac5d98010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

[Suzie]

I read all the pages and I think the documentation speak by itself. Brother Quinn also makes mention of Joseph Young (brother of Brigham) who blessed Brigham Young's daughter and said:

"These blessings are yours, the blessings and power according to the Holy Melchizedek Priesthood you received in your Endowments, and you shall have them."

Also, we are not discussing here whether or not women in the Church hold the Priesthood today, we are talking about historical facts . It is there, for some maybe a hard bone to chew however it doesn't change the fact it indeed happened.

[Guest LDS_Guy_1986]

God does not hold the priesthood he is the source of the priesthood power. The priesthood is his power and authority that we, as his ordained representatives on Earth hold.

God is supreme and everything else works through his power and authority. This is called priesthood, but God does not Hold the Priesthood because he is the power and authority and has no need to represent himself because he is himself.

Edited February 1, 2011 by LDS_Guy_1986

[Suzie]

LDS_Guy, I don't know if you read it properly, but I was pointing out to your mistake here:

Priesthood is man's authority

That's a fallacy. Even in the crazy event that I believe God doesn't hold the Priesthood, the authority He gives to man comes from HIM and NOT from man.

But hey, let's not hickjack the thread

Edited February 1, 2011 by Suzie

[Guest LDS_Guy_1986]

LDS_Guy, I don't know if you read it properly, but I was pointing out to your mistake here:

That's a fallacy. Even in the crazy event that I believe God doesn't hold the Priesthood, the authority He gives to man comes from HIM and NOT from man.

But hey, let's not hickjack the thread

I know what you said an I know what I said, I stand by my statement.

The Priesthood is man's authority (if you don't understand the obvious then I will spell out that the authority is given by God to man) to act on God's behalf.

Yes God is the source of the authority but this authority is used by man (hence it is man's authority) to act on God's behalf.

I didn't say man's authority to act on behalf of man.

If you seek to complain that I don't look at everything you want me to it is insincere to then turn around and not look at all of my post.

Edited February 1, 2011 by LDS_Guy_1986
typo

[Guest LDS_Guy_1986]

I read all the pages and I think the documentation speak by itself. Brother Quinn also makes mention of Joseph Young (brother of Brigham) who blessed Brigham Young's daughter and said:

Also, we are not discussing here whether or not women in the Church hold the Priesthood today, we are talking about historical facts . It is there, for some maybe a hard bone to chew however it doesn't change the fact it indeed happened.

You can have all the "historical facts" I will stick to the Word of God and the inspired word of the Living Prophet Thomas S. Monson. There is no revelation recorded, there is no policy issued from Brigham or Smith saying or stating that women are to be ordained into the priesthood offices.

Like I have said time and again, if you want me to consider your position bring me evidence. I want 1) a individual ordination sheet showing a female holding a Priesthood office. 2) Any scripture that states a women held the priesthood at any time in recorded history (I will not accept RLDS or other non LDS ordinations since they are not recognized by the LDS Church). 3) A revelation (which means it is canonized in the D&C) that states women were or are to be ordained into the priesthood.

Without evidence I give your arguments no weight at all, if the Prophet ever decides to allow women into the Priesthood I will accept them with open arms. But they haven't been accepted into the priesthood yet.

[Suzie]

Without evidence I give your arguments no weight at all,

The historical evidence was presented. You choose not to believe it and that's your right. However, it doesn't change the accounts and facts presented.

[Guest LDS_Guy_1986]

The historical evidence was presented. You choose not to believe it and that's your right. However, it doesn't change the accounts and facts presented.

Like you did not accept the level of evidence I presented on the meats discussion. I do not accept the level of evidence you present here. Any claim that Smith ordained women to the priesthood can only be valid in my opinion through a church records or the D&C.

Any journal entries from Smith, Young, ect are the personal writings of men and while they are interesting they do not present doctrine, policy, or the Church's position on any matter.

I have no problem accepting valid evidence of previous ordinations to the Priesthood for women. The evidence you have presented so far though is not compelling to me though.

[Just_A_Guy]

I think we're conflating "priesthood" with "priesthood office".

Suzie's and MOE's argument relates to the former, not the latter.

(Although--to play devil's advocate for a moment (literally?!)--early New Testament manuscripts refer to an apostle named "Junia", which was a feminine name. Later scribes, probably uncomfortable with the idea of a female receiving the appellation of "apostle", changed it to "Junias".)