Predicting The Rapture

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

Has anyone heard of this new movement:

May 21, 2011 - Noah Knew, WeCanKnow! Christ's Return on Judgment Day: May 21, 2011

It appears we have yet another group predicting the "rapture" of the church. This time it's May 21 (yes, that means this year) and the world will end on October 21. And watch out because they say if you are "Left Behind" on this one, you have no hope to be saved. It's interesting how they have a way of explaining away all Bible verses that speak about Christ coming like a thief in the night; that no man knows the hour or the day of Christ's return. All the scriptures in the world cannot turn aright people smitten by invincible ignorance and who are oblivious to history.

These "predictions" have happened too many times to count.

[Lisa-marie]

Agreed, although I think the millennium bug had the most people convinced... here at least anyway.

[Lisa-marie]

It's the same as the 2012 thing... but its a Im not worried if the world ends at <insert when here> I have a good insurance policy called Christ, if you would like to be part of this phenomonon please call 1800-pray-2-god

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

It's the same as the 2012 thing... but its a Im not worried if the world ends at <insert when here> I have a good insurance policy called Christ, if you would like to be part of this phenomonon please call 1800-pray-2-god

Every generation of Christians has believed that Christ might return during their lifetime, but the pinpoint predictions really began in earnest with the onset of the pretribulation rapture belief that spawned from the 19th century Great Awakening movement. You're right about trusting in Christ whether he comes or he tarries. What I don't understand is this desparate hope to be whisked away before any persecution happens to us.

[Lisa-marie]

Every generation of Christians has believed that Christ might return during their lifetime, but the pinpoint predictions really began in earnest with the onset of the pretribulation rapture belief that spawned from the 19th century Great Awakening movement. You're right about trusting in Christ whether he comes or he tarries. What I don't understand is this desparate hope to be whisked away before any persecution happens to us.

Personally the signs of the end times are beginning to show up around us as predicted in revelations, I don't get it persecution brings you closer to Christ and gives you a chance to stand up for him in the face of adversary... why would you want to be spared that?

[bert10]

Well first of all anyone who believes in the "Rapture" will be as accurate in the scriptures as Noah was raptured in the days of the flood.

The tribulations is a place of testing as well as for removing the wicked from the face of the earth. Men of faith are required and it is by faith men shall be saved just like in Noah's day.

Israel in Goshen were not translated to heaven when the plagues came either those loyal to Moses prospered in the plagues as Egypted was stripped of all things of value.

In revelations we are commanded to come out of Babylon so that we do not partake of her plagues.

We as saints are to overcome the world and its woes and establish Zion where we can go out from Babylon.

bert10

Has anyone heard of this new movement:

May 21, 2011 - Noah Knew, WeCanKnow! Christ's Return on Judgment Day: May 21, 2011

It appears we have yet another group predicting the "rapture" of the church. This time it's May 21 (yes, that means this year) and the world will end on October 21. And watch out because they say if you are "Left Behind" on this one, you have no hope to be saved. It's interesting how they have a way of explaining away all Bible verses that speak about Christ coming like a thief in the night; that no man knows the hour or the day of Christ's return. All the scriptures in the world cannot turn aright people smitten by invincible ignorance and who are oblivious to history.

These "predictions" have happened too many times to count.

[Lisa-marie]

Well first of all anyone who believes in the "Rapture" will be as accurate in the scriptures as Noah was raptured in the days of the flood.

The tribulations is a place of testing as well as for removing the wicked from the face of the earth. Men of faith are required and it is by faith men shall be saved just like in Noah's day.

Israel in Goshen were not translated to heaven when the plagues came either those loyal to Moses prospered in the plagues as Egypted was stripped of all things of value.

In revelations we are commanded to come out of Babylon so that we do not partake of her plagues.

We as saints are to overcome the world and its woes and establish Zion where we can go out from Babylon.

bert10

Interesting point but you need to somehow balance faith in the unseen and being lead astray and that is a very fine line to walk... like walking on the edge of a cliff... inches from from death, but breathtaking at the same time... It's how I like to define the term faith... living on the edge of disaster but always in the midst of miracles

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

Well first of all anyone who believes in the "Rapture" will be as accurate in the scriptures as Noah was raptured in the days of the flood.

The tribulations is a place of testing as well as for removing the wicked from the face of the earth. Men of faith are required and it is by faith men shall be saved just like in Noah's day.

Israel in Goshen were not translated to heaven when the plagues came either those loyal to Moses prospered in the plagues as Egypted was stripped of all things of value.

In revelations we are commanded to come out of Babylon so that we do not partake of her plagues.

We as saints are to overcome the world and its woes and establish Zion where we can go out from Babylon.

bert10

I'm not sure what the LDS eschatology is on the rapture happening before the tribulation. Your post seems to assure me that you don't buy into that nonsense. Of course, the LDS were born in persecutions, and if you were the type to start looking to the sky for rescue, you would have done so back then. Instead, you grit your teeth and soldiered through it. One of the things I admire about LDS.

[Wingnut]

http://www.lds.net/forums/current-events/36483-its-official-rapture-coming-soon-town-near-you.html

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

Oh, so somebody beat me to it. I heard about it when one of the promoters of this movement was interviewed on Catholic Radio. The interviewer reminded her that Jesus said nobody knows the hour or the day. What's amazing is the backflips they do to get around this or any other Bible passage used to refute their claim.

[Lisa-marie]

Yeah they don't seem to think it's relevant... I'm sure I will find out the exact moment when it will happen... It may happen at that exact moment but that small detail is irrelevant... one day I will know for certain when it shall happen.... (evil laugh)

[Netgood]

If Joseph Smith had lived to eighty years old, I may have never been born on this earth.

[prisonchaplain]

I belong to a movement that teaches the pretribulation rapture. We do believe we will be whisked away before the worst of it. For all its critics, Left Behind was a fun and not off-based depiction of how we believe it might play out (forget all the antics of the Tribulation Force itself, of course!).

And yet we know that we will indeed face persecutions, and maybe even matyrdom. So, it's not escapism. However, we see the final Great Tribulation as a judgment from God, and the Church, as Christ's bride, will be spared.

When? Our theology is consistent. The return is imminent. Whether that means tonight, or a few generations down the road, our Sovereign instructed us to be ready for his soon return. So, any teaching that attempts to belay readiness is wrong-headed.

Ironically, these date-setters always end up hurting the cause of Christ. The give fotter to mockers, discourage and dissuade the naive, and they bring confusion. However, perhaps a few will be curious and open enough to look past 5/21/2011, and see Jesus, instead of failed human doctrine.

[Lisa-marie]

I belong to a movement that teaches the pretribulation rapture. We do believe we will be whisked away before the worst of it. For all its critics, Left Behind was a fun and not off-based depiction of how we believe it might play out (forget all the antics of the Tribulation Force itself, of course!).

And yet we know that we will indeed face persecutions, and maybe even matyrdom. So, it's not escapism. However, we see the final Great Tribulation as a judgment from God, and the Church, as Christ's bride, will be spared.

When? Our theology is consistent. The return is imminent. Whether that means tonight, or a few generations down the road, our Sovereign instructed us to be ready for his soon return. So, any teaching that attempts to belay readiness is wrong-headed.

Ironically, these date-setters always end up hurting the cause of Christ. The give fotter to mockers, discourage and dissuade the naive, and they bring confusion. However, perhaps a few will be curious and open enough to look past 5/21/2011, and see Jesus, instead of failed human doctrine.

Interesting views... not saying I think there wrong just to make that clear now, I can't really speak for anyone else as I don't know, but I myself don't know much about LDS beliefs and Doctrines but I would like to learn, I agree with about 80% of your post dont understand about 18% and not sure if I agree with this bit:

the pretribulation rapture. We do believe we will be whisked away before the worst of it.

What do you mean by pre tribulation rapture and what do you consider "the worst of it"

[bert10]

If a person has faith....

He shall not want. He shall be made to lie down in green pastures [prosperity] He shall be led besides still waters [peace and rest] He restoreth my soul (Healing both in body and Spirit) He leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for His Name's sake. (Heavenly Guidance) Sounds familiar?

It is important that we have still waters in our lives and that God do leads us in and make us lie down in green pastures....because we require a lot peace and quiet in our lives in order to learn to listen and to grow spiritually. If we have to spend all of our energy in order to survive and remain alive...we shall be stopped in our spiritual progression. Psalms 23:1 -

A Psalm of David. The LORD [is] my shepherd; I shall not want. Psalms 23:2 - He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. Psalms 23:3 - He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Psalms 23:4 - Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou [art] with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. Psalms 23:5 - Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. Psalms 23:6 - Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever. bert10

Interesting point but you need to somehow balance faith in the unseen and being lead astray and that is a very fine line to walk... like walking on the edge of a cliff... inches from from death, but breathtaking at the same time... It's how I like to define the term faith... living on the edge of disaster but always in the midst of miracles

[bert10]

Prison Chaplain. The end shall be like in the Beginning. In the beginning it was the wicked that was removed from the earth not the righteous. Noah and his family alone survived.

The times between Noah and the end of tribulations...it is the righteous who were made to leave, cities, people and countries. But in the end of times it shall be like it was in the beginning. It is the wicked who shall be bundled up and be removed from the earth. For truly the meek shall inherit the earth. There is no way a person gets to filled with Light so he can be translated from one day to the next. To walk in the Light as Christ walks in the light is a process of learning truth at the level of GOD.

Luke 17:34 - I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

Places called Zions shall be on the earth and there is no power that shall harm those who are in Zion. When the Lord calls His people to leave Babylon...in revelation...it is because God has set up Zions for the protection of all those who shall go there. These Zions like in the days of Noah are ships (places of refuge for them who have had enough of Babylon and are now ready to live as GOD revealed anciently) In Zions shall the light of Christ be and there is nothing on the earth that can harm them within.

Again the tribulation is a day of wrath and it is for removing the wicked not the Righteous. For the meek shall inherit the earth. They who shall have power to be translated and be given work in the Spirit world are they who have learned to walk in the Light as Christ is in the Light.

bert10

I belong to a movement that teaches the pretribulation rapture. We do believe we will be whisked away before the worst of it. For all its critics, Left Behind was a fun and not off-based depiction of how we believe it might play out (forget all the antics of the Tribulation Force itself, of course!).

And yet we know that we will indeed face persecutions, and maybe even matyrdom. So, it's not escapism. However, we see the final Great Tribulation as a judgment from God, and the Church, as Christ's bride, will be spared.

When? Our theology is consistent. The return is imminent. Whether that means tonight, or a few generations down the road, our Sovereign instructed us to be ready for his soon return. So, any teaching that attempts to belay readiness is wrong-headed.

Ironically, these date-setters always end up hurting the cause of Christ. The give fotter to mockers, discourage and dissuade the naive, and they bring confusion. However, perhaps a few will be curious and open enough to look past 5/21/2011, and see Jesus, instead of failed human doctrine.

[prisonchaplain]

What do you mean by pre tribulation rapture and what do you consider "the worst of it"

The taking away of the church (rapture) will take place before (pre) the Great Tribulation. This is the judgment of God upon the earth, as described in much of the book of Revelation. So, while Christians have, and will continue to face tribulations, this final judgment is one we will be spared from.

Having said that, Christians experience rape, molestation, murder, bankruptcy, family betrayal, etc. For them, these experiences can be, on a personal level, as devestating as the Great Tribulation. However, this season of judgment will be global and pervasive. And again, it will be something the Church is removed from.

[prisonchaplain]

Prison Chaplain. The end shall be like in the Beginning. In the beginning it was the wicked that was removed from the earth not the righteous. Noah and his family alone survived.

The times between Noah and the end of tribulations...it is the righteous who were made to leave, cities, people and countries. But in the end of times it shall be like it was in the beginning. It is the wicked who shall be bundled up and be removed from the earth. For truly the meek shall inherit the earth. There is no way a person gets to filled with Light so he can be translated from one day to the next. To walk in the Light as Christ walks in the light is a process of learning truth at the level of GOD.

Luke 17:34 - I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

Places called Zions shall be on the earth and there is no power that shall harm those who are in Zion. When the Lord calls His people to leave Babylon...in revelation...it is because God has set up Zions for the protection of all those who shall go there. These Zions like in the days of Noah are ships (places of refuge for them who have had enough of Babylon and are now ready to live as GOD revealed anciently) In Zions shall the light of Christ be and there is nothing on the earth that can harm them within.

Again the tribulation is a day of wrath and it is for removing the wicked not the Righteous. For the meek shall inherit the earth. They who shall have power to be translated and be given work in the Spirit world are they who have learned to walk in the Light as Christ is in the Light.

bert10

One could argue that Noah and his family, but entering the ark, rose above the earth, while the rest remained on it, to face God's judgment. However, I perceive that our bottom lines would be the same: The return of Christ is imminent, and we should be ready. We ready ourselves, not be frenzied searching for "the day and hour," but by faithfully serving the LORD, until his return.

[bert10]

The Lord delivered the church in the days of Joseph not once but twice. Each time the Lord used the tribulations to purify his people for what was coming. They required to have achieved a certain level of faith in order to tame Utah and survive there. In the last days....the Saints will be required to have great faith in order to counter the tribulations and to survive to do the will of GOD on the earth. If at first they learned to as you say "grit their teeth and soldier on" in the last days they will need to learn to be thankful and rejoice and exercise faith as individuals, in the midst of afflictions and disasters. They will need to become the "Elect" and the "Elect" do not act as men do. Neither do they see the world as men do but more from the point of view of God. bert10

I'm not sure what the LDS eschatology is on the rapture happening before the tribulation. Your post seems to assure me that you don't buy into that nonsense. Of course, the LDS were born in persecutions, and if you were the type to start looking to the sky for rescue, you would have done so back then. Instead, you grit your teeth and soldiered through it. One of the things I admire about LDS.

[bert10]

Yes, the energy of people would be best served in acquiring Light of Christ within themselves. The Lord always prepare His servants. They may not be told of the hour or of the day..but they can be told of the year, the month and the week it will occur. Of course such knowledge would not be broadcast ed about. Unless commanded by GOD. But then who would believe seeing all these false groups doing this stuff right now? bert10

One could argue that Noah and his family, but entering the ark, rose above the earth, while the rest remained on it, to face God's judgment. However, I perceive that our bottom lines would be the same: The return of Christ is imminent, and we should be ready. We ready ourselves, not be frenzied searching for "the day and hour," but by faithfully serving the LORD, until his return.

[bytor2112]

We do believe we will be whisked away before the worst of it.

Who are the "we" that will be whisked away?

[JohnnyRudick]

Prison Chaplain. The end shall be like in the Beginning. In the beginning it was the wicked that was removed from the earth not the righteous. Noah and his family alone survived.

. . .

bert10

This is the second time you said this.

Now I have no idea what others may have written after as I stop

reading at this point to post this ssooooooooooooooooooooooooooo,

if anyone beat me to it I apologize to Him/her:)

The whole city of Enoch was lifted out of here before "the worst of it"

happened.

Noah and his family remained behind to ride out the storm

and they obeyed God which got them through the tempest.

Now, will their be a remnent left behind to ride out the storm and witness

the return of all those lifted out through out history?

[JohnnyRudick]

Yes, the energy of people would be best served in acquiring Light of Christ within themselves. The Lord always prepare His servants. They may not be told of the hour or of the day..but they can be told of the year, the month and the week it will occur. Of course such knowledge would not be broadcast ed about. Unless commanded by GOD. But then who would believe seeing all these false groups doing this stuff right now? bert10

Speaking to the leaders of His Church.

I believe the Church is Zion which shall be lifted out in time.

Those who witness the return of all Zion at the end of the Trib will be

converts during the Great Tribulation referred to in

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw

under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of

God, and for the testimony which they held:

Revelation 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How

long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our

blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Revelation 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of

them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a

little season, until their fellowservants also and their

brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be

fulfilled.

Acts 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion

by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and

speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded

them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the

promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be

baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of

him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the

kingdom to Israel?

Acts 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the

times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost

is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in

Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the

uttermost part of the earth.

Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they

beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their

sight.

Edited January 10, 2011 by JohnnyRudick
Afterthought;-)

[prisonchaplain]

Who are the "we" that will be whisked away?

Tithe-paying members of the Assemblies....ur...just kidding! "We" would be those who are ready for Christ's return. The universal Christian church...believers and followers in him.

By the way, for those who saw the Left Behind movie, you may recall that one of the main charcters who was left behind was a minister. He had the head knowledge of Christ, and abided by the Christian cultural norms, but never developed a personal relationship with God. He did all the group stuff, but never made his personal peace with God.

So...who goes? Well...I'm planning on it!

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

So the LDS do not have a set doctrine on the rapture and its timing?