Basically Saved

[Yahuchannon]

Hi brothers and sisters, I'm really a non-denominational disciple of Christ but because my new home will be in Boise ID next week I feel the need to learn more about the Mormon faith.

I'll start by giving you some information about where I stand in my faith. If I had to name it, I guess I'd just say "Disciple of Christ." The teachings from Christ that are found in the Gospels are my foundation and everything else is built upon that. I take the teachiings of Christ very serious and if there is anything that contradicts anything that he says in just the slightest bit, I'll have absolutely nothing to do with it. For example, the Sermon on the Mount is the greatest sermon ever preached in my opinion, and if taken seriously it should be extremely convicting to us - with the help of God's Holy Spirit. Then, on top of that foundation would be the books written by Peter and John. After those comes the rest of the "Bible" although I have had problems with Paul.

Without going into detail about my testimony I'll just say that God called me all by himself through the words in red one day and I dropped to my knees in repentance and was immediately baptized into His precious Holy Spirit. I was also baptized in a non-denominational church at a ripe age of 7 and knew full well what baptism and repentance was. I know God! I am a firm believer in obedience, but also understand that I have no power of my own. I am a firm believer in the power of prayer, and prayer is also one of the keys - just as important as the key of faith. Without a earnest prayer life I am useless and fallen away from the heart of God. I'm also a person who will never say that any individual "believer" will not make it to Heaven just because they don't believe or see things exactly as I do. When I say that I mean, I believe there are certain essentials in order to be saved and as long as they have that they could possibly be my brother or sister in Christ. These essentials are simply repentance, and the most important - The Lamb!!! I believe if someone is deeply sorry for doing the things that caused Christ to suffer so much and they stop, and then obey the teachings of Christ to the best of thier ability they are saved. This means I greatly honor the sacrifice of the Lamb, who of course is now seated at the right hand of the Father. Of course there are many commandments we must obey such as the baptism of repentance but that's between them and God and he is a gracious judge. Those judgements are all up to Him, but I know there will not be anyone in Heaven who refused to repent and obey Christ.... it's that simple.

I've known many Mormons and it's allways been a huge blessing to meet people of your fellowship. I can say that the ones I've met were great representatives and disciples of Christ, living Holy lives. That says it all to me and I don't think I've ever thought negitive thoughts against your faith. I really don't know much about the details but I know enough to know you are my brothers and sisters. A while back I bought a journal from a thrift store. I only had to scratch the name out of the first page and put my name since it wasn't used yet. Then I noticed D&C stickers on it with little notes that I thought were great. I didn't know what that was at the time but now I understand it to be Mormon. So the next time I met with one of your elders I was very interested in reading from your other books... other than the Bible.

So now, here I am moving to Boise and I'd love to learn more about the Mormons. Here are a few things I'd like to discuss if you don't mind:

- Do you read the Book of Enoch? I thought I remember Enoch being in the Book of Mormon.

- What's wrong with tea? lol Not to speak against your prophet but I can't help but wonder why he wouldn't let you drink something that would be so highly beneficial for your health - speaking of decaffinated green teas and especially "detox" teas. With all the toxins in everything I would think they would promote any tea that helps in detoxifying our bodies.

- Can someone give me a "detailed" explanation of what your faith says happens when people die. I'm sure there are writings on this. But I'm curious because I think I remember there may be different levels to heaven or something like that, and also what happens to the unsaved. I think I remember that the Mormon faith has this graphically detailed in every possible direction for every person. Please expound on this with your own words as well as a link please.

Well, that's it for now. Sorry to write a book but I figured I'd be thorough.

Oh and one more thing. I like to use the name Yahushua instead of Jesus but don't mind using either. It's just that when I'm in serious prayer I make sure I use the name Yahushua!!!

Be Blessed,

Yahuchannon

Edited January 21, 2011 by Yahuchannon

[mnn727]

The Book of Enoch is not a part of the Book of Mormon, although Enoch is mentioned in our Scriptures

I Covenanted with God that I would follow His Word of Wisdom part of my Covenant is to drink no tea or coffee -- its an obediance thing. Gods part of the same Covenant is to give us health, thats an in general Covenant and not a specific - we still have to do our part; we can't lay around eating chocolates and chips and expect to be able to run a marathon.

I follow the Word of Wisdom because I Covenanted to.

I'll leave the death question to someone else as it's time for dinner -- Welcome though

Here is a link that may interest you, it takes you to our Articles of Faith which are statements of our beliefs

Articles of Faith 1

[Yahuchannon]

The Book of Enoch is not a part of the Book of Mormon, although Enoch is mentioned in our Scriptures

I Covenanted with God that I would follow His Word of Wisdom part of my Covenant is to drink no tea or coffee -- its an obediance thing. Gods part of the same Covenant is to give us health, thats an in general Covenant and not a specific - we still have to do our part; we can't lay around eating chocolates and chips and expect to be able to run a marathon.

I follow the Word of Wisdom because I Covenanted to.

I'll leave the death question to someone else as it's time for dinner -- Welcome though

Here is a link that may interest you, it takes you to our Articles of Faith which are statements of our beliefs

Articles of Faith 1

Thanks for the input. I hear you about the Covenant and that makes sense and is very respectable. First thing I thought about was the Recobites.

Please forgive me for using a lack of better words. Lets call it the life/Heaven question. You made me realize that when you said "I'll leave the death question for someone else" and just left... lol.

Be Blessed

[Guest]

I'll take on the death part...

Okay, I think I'll let this Chapter take on the death part... then you get the story from its simplest form:

Gospel Principles Chapter 41: The Postmortal Spirit World

But, I think it is even better if you read that book from Chapter 1 instead of from Chapter 41 where death is discussed. It's give you a better foundation to build on in discussing death.

Here's the entire book:

Gospel Principles

Then after you scan through that, post questions right on this thread and we'll take the discussion deeper. Fair enough?

[Traveler]

....

- Do you read the Book of Enoch? I thought I remember Enoch being in the Book of Mormon.

...

Be Blessed,

Yahuchannon

Your questions are good but will take some time to answer - I will address the Book of Enoch because I am a student of ancient scriptures. As already stated the Book of Enoch is not part of the Book of Mormon. If you have studied you realize that the Book of Enoch is the most quoted scripture by Jesus and the writers of the New Testament. The Book of Jude identifies the Book of Enoch specifically as a book of prophesy.

The earliest copy of the Book of Enoch comes to us from the Dead Sea Scrolls and predates the creation of the New Testament by at least 300 years. If you are a student of the Book of Enoch you should realize that the calendar referenced in Enoch is both ancient and very accurate. Using this calendar we can calculate that whoever wrote the Book of Enoch lived above the 45 parallel and this a problem for most Christians in accepting the book as inspired.

Many LDS like myself find the Book of Enoch interesting. In particular because of the parallels between many of the things taught in the Book of Enoch and the revelations we have in the Pearl of Great Price, specifically the Book of Moses. I am also intrigued that Jesus used the solar calendar of the Book of Enoch rather than the lunar calendar used by the Scribes and Pharisees. I also am intrigued by the calendar of Enoch and the Mayan.

As you learn more about the Mormons you will likely find our concept of the G-dhead (G-d the Father, G-d the Son and G-d the Holy Ghost) quite interesting; especially because we reject in general the doctrine of the Trinity.

Enjoy your journey among us.

The Traveler

[Blackmarch]

Hi brothers and sisters, I'm really a non-denominational disciple of Christ but because my new home will be in Boise ID next week I feel the need to learn more about the Mormon faith.

welcome welcome! I"ll try to do the best i can :).

I'll start by giving you some information about where I stand in my faith. If I had to name it, I guess I'd just say "Disciple of Christ." The teachings from Christ that are found in the Gospels are my foundation and everything else is built upon that. I take the teachiings of Christ very serious and if there is anything that contradicts anything that he says in just the slightest bit, I'll have absolutely nothing to do with it. For example, the Sermon on the Mount is the greatest sermon ever preached in my opinion, and if taken seriously it should be extremely convicting to us - with the help of God's Holy Spirit. Then, on top of that foundation would be the books written by Peter and John. After those comes the rest of the "Bible" although I have had problems with Paul.

Without going into detail about my testimony I'll just say that God called me all by himself through the words in red one day and I dropped to my knees in repentance and was immediately baptized into His precious Holy Spirit. I was also baptized in a non-denominational church at a ripe age of 7 and knew full well what baptism and repentance was. I know God! I am a firm believer in obedience, but also understand that I have no power of my own. I am a firm believer in the power of prayer, and prayer is also one of the keys - just as important as the key of faith. Without a earnest prayer life I am useless and fallen away from the heart of God. I'm also a person who will never say that any individual "believer" will not make it to Heaven just because they don't believe or see things exactly as I do. When I say that I mean, I believe there are certain essentials in order to be saved and as long as they have that they could possibly be my brother or sister in Christ. These essentials are simply repentance, and the most important - The Lamb!!! I believe if someone is deeply sorry for doing the things that caused Christ to suffer so much and they stop, and then obey the teachings of Christ to the best of thier ability they are saved. This means I greatly honor the sacrifice of the Lamb, who of course is now seated at the right hand of the Father. Of course there are many commandments we must obey such as the baptism of repentance but that's between them and God and he is a gracious judge. Those judgements are all up to Him, but I know there will not be anyone in Heaven who refused to repent and obey Christ.... it's that simple.

wow thank you for sharing that.

I've known many Mormons and it's allways been a huge blessing to meet people of your fellowship. I can say that the ones I've met were great representatives and disciples of Christ, living Holy lives. That says it all to me and I don't think I've ever thought negitive thoughts against your faith. I really don't know much about the details but I know enough to know you are my brothers and sisters. A while back I bought a journal from a thrift store. I only had to scratch the name out of the first page and put my name since it wasn't used yet. Then I noticed D&C stickers on it with little notes that I thought were great. I didn't know what that was at the time but now I understand it to be Mormon. So the next time I met with one of your elders I was very interested in reading from your other books... other than the Bible.

So now, here I am moving to Boise and I'd love to learn more about the Mormons. Here are a few things I'd like to discuss if you don't mind:

- Do you read the Book of Enoch? I thought I remember Enoch being in the Book of Mormon.

some may but many probably do not, I have only read just quotes from it myself. I believe the book of enoch is part of teh apocrypha. as said earlier we have scriptures that deal with enoch (the bible, the book of moses from the pearl of great price).

- What's wrong with tea? lol Not to speak against your prophet but I can't help but wonder why he wouldn't let you drink something that would be so highly beneficial for your health - speaking of decaffinated green teas and especially "detox" teas. With all the toxins in everything I would think they would promote any tea that helps in detoxifying our bodies.

God didn't say what was wrong with tea, we're just commanded not to drink it. Caffiene may be the reason or it may not be, or may be part of it... Either way God didn't tell the prophet, or if he did he did not command the prophet to explain that part.

- Can someone give me a "detailed" explanation of what your faith says happens when people die. I'm sure there are writings on this. But I'm curious because I think I remember there may be different levels to heaven or something like that, and also what happens to the unsaved. I think I remember that the Mormon faith has this graphically detailed in every possible direction for every person. Please expound on this with your own words as well as a link please.

I"ll try to be detailed as I can... even tho God has given quite a bit of info regarding what happens after death in these modern times (quite a bit more than whats in the bible) theres still not a lot (but enough to inspre and comfort).

Allright here goes:

When we die, our spirits and our bodies seperate (and degeneraes to earth). THe spirit goes to a place of waiting, which we call the spirit world or the spirit after life to await the resurrection. This place is divided into two major divisions, one where those who have accepted christ and have been obedient to his commandments and ordinances go to rest and learn- this part we know as paradise. The other part is where those who have not accepted the gospel, or not all of the gospel (or have rejected it) go, this is known as spirit prison (it could also be called hell).

With the death and resurrection of Christ, he was able to break the division and make it possible for those in Paradise to be able to go teach those in prison who are willing to recieve the word of Christ that they may be brought out of it and into paradise that they may be able to share in the blessings of the Gospel.

At this point we believe in something rather unique: we believe that a person must be obedient to christ in all things to recieve his blessings so things like baptism by immersion is necessary... but those who have died without it have a problem- they can't be baptised, So God has given us a way so that they can recieve the blessing- He's commanded us to do ordinances (like baptisms) by proxy for those who have died, afterwhich they (the spirit persons) will have a chance to accept that work to be counted to them or reject it.

and finally when Christ comes again, at some point everyone will be resurrected, meaning that their spirit will be reunited with a body again, however this body will be different somewhat from the one they had in mortality: it won't ever be seperated from the spirit again (ie it won't die a mortal death ever) and it will be perfect.

After this resurrection will come the final judgement, where everyone will be judged according to what they've done, and what they've accepted:

-If they've done all that they have been asked to by God, they will go to the greatest one of 3 parts of heaven- to what we call the celestial kingdom, this is where God and Christ dwell.

-If they have accepted Christ, but not everything of christ then they will be sent to a lower -part, one which we call the terrestrial kingdom.

-If then for the others who have not done that much or choose not to abide even that much (just about everyone else), will be sent to the lowest part, which we call the telestial kingdom. which is a paradise, Christ and God do not come here, but angels do.

-And finally if at the final judgement if a person still chooses to totally reject Christ (even after all that time in spirit prison) they are sent to Outer darkness, which is a final hell, where their torment and anguish is forever.

I'll try to find all my scripture references for this, but thats the summary of what we believe happens after this life.

Well, that's it for now. Sorry to write a book but I figured I'd be thorough.

Oh and one more thing. I like to use the name Yahushua instead of Jesus but don't mind using either. It's just that when I'm in serious prayer I make sure I use the name Yahushua!!!

Be Blessed

Yahuchannon

I don't have any problems with that. Jesus is the greek version of it... had it gone straight from the original to a anglic/latin conversion it probably would have become something like Joshua or Jeshua or something similar.

[Yahuchannon]

Anatess, Traveler, and BlackMarch, I really appreciate you taking the time to post that information for me and that's exactly what I was looking for. You answered that extremely well BlackMarch. Thank you so much and I look forward to further studying your faith and fellowship, with prayer, and possibly even visiting one of your temples. I've allways enjoyed fellowshipping with people who are so commited to our God.

Be Blessed,

Brother Shawn

[rameumptom]

- Do you read the Book of Enoch? I thought I remember Enoch being in the Book of Mormon.

Joseph Smith received by revelation a book we called the Book of Moses. It contains experiences from Enoch, which you probably will find interesting. You can read it online here: Moses

- What's wrong with tea? lol Not to speak against your prophet but I can't help but wonder why he wouldn't let you drink something that would be so highly beneficial for your health - speaking of decaffinated green teas and especially "detox" teas. With all the toxins in everything I would think they would promote any tea that helps in detoxifying our bodies.

It may not have anything to do with that. Just as with the ancient Jews who were given a health/food code, so we've received on through modern prophets, as well. The Word of Wisdom Doctrine and Covenants 89Â* gives us a modern commandment. We do not keep it because it makes us healthier (although recent studies show practicing Mormons live 10 years longer than other Americans), but because it is a commandment of God.

- Can someone give me a "detailed" explanation of what your faith says happens when people die. I'm sure there are writings on this. But I'm curious because I think I remember there may be different levels to heaven or something like that, and also what happens to the unsaved. I think I remember that the Mormon faith has this graphically detailed in every possible direction for every person. Please expound on this with your own words as well as a link please.

We believe in 3 major levels of heaven. Paul wrote about knowing a man who went to the "third heaven" (2 Cor 12:1-4). If there is a third heaven, that means there are at least three levels. Early Jews and Christians believed in multiple levels of heaven, anywhere between 3 and 40.

After death, we go to the Spirit World, where we await the resurrection. In the Spirit World is both paradise and prison (you'll note in the above scripture that paradise is different than heaven). Spirit prison has two parts, including hell, which is where the disobedient go to pay for their sins, until they repent of them (Doctrine and Covenants 19Â*). We get a sense of what this is like from Alma in the Book of Mormon ( Alma 36Â* ).

The other portion of Spirit Prison is where those who have not yet received the gospel will wait to be preached to (1 Peter 3:18-20, 1 Peter 4Â*). Once they accept it, they are admitted into Paradise.

At the Resurrection, all will come before the throne of God and will be judged in the flesh according to their works and desires (Alma 11:40-44). At this time, all will be judged and given a kingdom to dwell in according to their capacity and willingness to receive the light of God. Some will not be willing to receive a fullness of God's light and glory, and therefore will receive a lesser kingdom (D&C 88:17-32), because they would not accept anything greater. The wicked will prefer dwelling in a lesser kingdom, because they would be in more pain dwelling in the presence of God (Mormon 9:3-4, Alma 12). We will be judged by our thoughts, words, and actions, because that is who we will have become. We either become Christ-like, or we become something less. And if something less, then we will only receive something less.

Still, this lets us know that the atonement is near universal. Almost all God's children will be saved to some level of heaven - but only after they've repented of all their sins, paid for them here or in spirit prison, and been redeemed by Christ.

Only those who have become complete enemies of Christ and deny the Holy Ghost (who represents the glory of the lowest kingdom of glory, the telestial kingdom): those who have known Christ and choose to be his mortal and eternal enemy, refusing to repent, and glorying in their own wickedness, will eternally dwell in Outer Darkness. And that is because they will not have any kingdom of glory. They refuse to accept the atonement of Christ. Of all the people who have dwelt on earth, we only definitely know of one son of perdition, and that is Cain. Even Judas Iscariot may not qualify, as his last actions may show that he sought to redeem himself from betraying Christ, and he had not experienced the Holy Ghost yet, so could not have denied it.

In this way, God truly becomes a merciful God. All his children will be given a chance here or in the Spirit World to hear the gospel, and choose to accept all, part or none of it. And they will be rewarded or punished according to that. We do not have to ponder how a loving God can allow billions to go to hell, simply because they never had the chance to hear about Jesus Christ. And we see that God is willing to forgive, even to the end. We understand that men must repent, and God accepts even those who only partially repent, giving them a kingdom meet for that level of repentance and obedience.