The Purpose Of Death

[boyando]

My father in law, passed away yesterday. He had had many trial in his life. Although he was happiest when he was hiking in the mountains or riding a bike to a local baseball game, he spent the last few years in a wheel chair. Because of the sweet spirit that we felt the last few day's, we know that he will be hiking again.

I want to let everyone know that Hospis was a great help and that allowing him that time at home, instead of a hospital, made for a very spiritual experience. For the past week, there has been family prayer's with sometimes 30 people, asking "Father thy will be done". Few tears were needed after he passed.

I appoligise for the ulligy and thank you for reading this much. Alot of threads have descussed logic lately and in the time that I have had, to sit and think, ponder on the subject of death, death itself seems ill logical, without the gosple or plan of salvation. Our bodys start out as a single cell that devides and grows till it reaches a certain size than veries very little in height. Once our body's reach maturity, every cell in our body, with the exception of the brain, replaces itself, over and over again. We know that it is not always the brain that ages first but our bodys. We can understand how each new cell is, for lack of better terms older than the one it repalces, but we can not explain, without the plan of salvation, why.

I'm sure that many of you have toughts on this subject and I look forward to hearing them.

Thank You - Allmosthumble

[StrawberryFields]

I am sorry to hear of the passing of your father in law. Having been there, as my mom crossed over to the other side three years ago, I can say that a death is harder on those left behind. I clearly remember the sweet spirit that you mentioned.

I understand what you are saying about our bodies and our brains. I have come to know more and more about what the brain can and can not do this past year or so. I have also been around people who have lost loved ones and who do not know about the plan of salvation. I would hate to think that everything would be final after we leave this earth. Even though my mom has been gone now from this earth she has still been with me on a day to day basis, and for that I am grateful.

[Dr T]

Hello Allmosthumble,

I too, am sorry to hear of the loss of your father-in-law. How is your wife or husband doing with the loss? You raise an interesting issue. I look forward to hearing what people here have to say on this topic. Thanks for being curious and willing to look into such a difficult subject.

With sympathy,

Dr. T

[Guest ApostleKnight]

I'm sorry for the loss you have experienced, but I'm glad your faith allows you to be so positive about what lies ahead. As I mentioned on a previous thread, I'm currently taking care of my dad who had brain shearing due to a car accident. Seeing how intertwined the spirit, body/brain are does give pause for thoughts such as those you shared.

I don't fully understand your question. Would you please re-state it? I want to be sure I know what you're saying. Thanks, and again, best wishes.

[boyando]

I'm sorry for the loss you have experienced, but I'm glad your faith allows you to be so positive about what lies ahead. As I mentioned on a previous thread, I'm currently taking care of my dad who had brain shearing due to a car accident. Seeing how intertwined the spirit, body/brain are does give pause for thoughts such as those you shared.

I don't fully understand your question. Would you please re-state it? I want to be sure I know what you're saying. Thanks, and again, best wishes.

Thank you all for being so kind. But I know that mine and my wife's loss is temporary.

ApostleKnight, My words can not express how I feel about your trial that you are going through right now.

Dr T, Thank you for your heart felt concern.

Strawberry Feilds, your words of kindness have also shown true compassion

Thaks again.

My question may have been selfish, to take my mind away from the toughts of a funeral ect. It just seems ill logical to me, if we throw out the plan of salvation, that any living thing should die of old age. I'am greatful for the plan of salvation, it gives me understanding why we pass on to the next state.

I will explain better Later-Allmosthumble

[Ray]

Actually, if I understand what you’re saying allmosthumble, life itself is illogical, considering that all things “naturally” fall apart when they are left to their own attributes and/or abilities.

Or in other words, contrary to the opinions of people who believe things “naturally” grow and thrive and advance to even higher forms of perfection, when things are left alone they tend to “naturally” fall apart.

And btw, in what we now refer to as physics this is known as the second law of thermodynamics, or what is commonly referred to as entropy, which you can read about right here.

But this isn’t a new idea, and it has been talked about by prophets of God before, and you can still learn and read about this from God and all of His scriptures under topics such as Corruption and Opposition.

And I particularly recommend all of 2 Peter, 2 Nephi chapter 2, Mosiah chapter 16, and Alma chapters 41 and 42. :)

[Guest ApostleKnight]

I understand your question better now, and will await your further explanation as you mentioned at the end of your last post.

[boyando]

Actually, if I understand what you’re saying allmosthumble, life itself is illogical, considering that all things “naturally” fall apart when they are left to their own attributes and/or abilities.

Or in other words, contrary to the opinions of people who believe things “naturally” grow and thrive and advance to even higher forms of perfection, when things are left alone they tend to “naturally” fall apart.

Ray: Thank you for letting me see (and perhaps, explain to others) my own question a little better. The mechanism of death is given to all living creatures. Why? If the only life on this earth was only a single cell, it would devide, eat, devide again and eventaully die of old age. If there was no mechanism in that cell for it to die, it would take over the earth, were ever it could survive.

With out Father in Heaven, in my mind, death would not exist. To me, death is just another miracle that we ignore because it happens so often in our life's. Just as a single cell at the time of conception, illogicaly splits, why does the cell "naturally fall apart" and there by act intelligent, if not acted apon by intelligence?

And with out the plan of salvation, as in coming to this earth, gaining a imperfect body that die's and then is reserected, perfect, and with out the mechanism of death, death becomes once again illogical.

I guess my question becomes retorical in nature if we add the plan of salvation. And so it seems all my thoughts could be just ramblings of a brother who has not had enough sleep.

I hope that one or more of you will be willing to take the time to explain the plan of salvation more fully to those freinds who not LDS - Thank You - Allmosthumble

[ALatterDaySaint]

Speaking of the mind and the brain, even though both are very tough and enduring they can also be easily manipulated, frustrated, and weakened. I believe that yet another "reason" for death is to act as a divider between worlds so that our minds can cope with the change. I read somewhere where Joseph Smith was talking about the purpose of day and night and how that if this life were one constant sunny and bright day that we'd go mad. That the dawning of a new day allows us to "start anew" and also endure to the end. I spent a little time in Juno Alaska and I tried to sleep with the curtains open for just 2 days and it was really driving me bonkers so imagine your entire life with no night time to divide the days! Such is death, its a sweet divide between our mortal day and our eternal day. And the plan of salvation, just as the rising sun prevents us from being trapped in an eternal night/death.

[Ray]

<div class='quotemain'>

Actually, if I understand what you’re saying allmosthumble, life itself is illogical, considering that all things “naturally” fall apart when they are left to their own attributes and/or abilities.

Or in other words, contrary to the opinions of people who believe things “naturally” grow and thrive and advance to even higher forms of perfection, when things are left alone they tend to “naturally” fall apart.

Ray: Thank you for letting me see (and perhaps, explain to others) my own question a little better. The mechanism of death is given to all living creatures. Why? If the only life on this earth was only a single cell, it would divide, eat, divide again and eventaully die of old age. If there was no mechanism in that cell for it to die, it would take over the earth, were ever it could survive.

Without our Father in Heaven, in my mind, death would not exist. To me, death is just another miracle that we ignore because it happens so often in our life's. Just as a single cell at the time of conception, illogicaly splits, why does the cell "naturally fall apart" and there by act intelligent, if not acted apon by intelligence?

And without the plan of salvation, as in coming to this earth, gaining a imperfect body that dies and then is ressurected perfect, and without the mechanism of death, death becomes once again illogical.

I guess my question becomes rhetorical in nature if we add the plan of salvation. And so it seems all my thoughts could be just ramblings of a brother who has not had enough sleep.

I hope that one or more of you will be willing to take the time to explain the plan of salvation more fully to those freinds who not LDS - Thank You - Allmosthumble

Allmosthumble,

Death and Corruption and Opposition came into this world and into each of our lives because of the “Fall” of Adam and Eve, not because God caused a “miracle” which would cause us to die or fall apart.

And if you will study those words in those links I gave you, and seek an assurance from God, He will help you to know the truth of those things and to better know and understand God.

And btw, you might also want to spend a little time studying how fast we are falling apart, and how improbable "long" life really is, so you might then understand and come to believe our lives are upheld only because of the power of God.

[ALatterDaySaint]

Actually in the scriptures the Lord says that the "age of man" shall be 120 years. *I'll post the exact scripture verse later today*, and recently scientists have discovered that our human DNA is programed to live for exactley 120 years.

[prisonchaplain]

Actually in the scriptures the Lord says that the "age of man" shall be 120 years. *I'll post the exact scripture verse later today*, and recently scientists have discovered that our human DNA is programed to live for exactley 120 years.

First, a prayer, "May our Heavenly Father grant special blessings, and a mighty sense of his presence, to allmosthumble, during this time of separation. Also, a double dose of strength and blessing to Apostleknight during his time of caretaking."

Now to the nitpicking. If I'm not mistaken, the 120-year figure was an average for awhile, but the age continued to degenerate as the effects of the Fall accummulated. The Psalmist puts it at 70-80--which is about where we are now.

Ps 90:10: The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away. KJV

[Ray]

<div class='quotemain'>

Actually in the scriptures the Lord says that the "age of man" shall be 120 years. *I'll post the exact scripture verse later today*, and recently scientists have discovered that our human DNA is programed to live for exactley 120 years.

First, a prayer, "May our Heavenly Father grant special blessings, and a mighty sense of his presence, to allmosthumble, during this time of separation. Also, a double dose of strength and blessing to Apostleknight during his time of caretaking."

Now to the nitpicking. If I'm not mistaken, the 120-year figure was an average for awhile, but the age continued to degenerate as the effects of the Fall accummulated. The Psalmist puts it at 70-80--which is about where we are now.

Ps 90:10: The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away. KJV

Good work and good thoughts, Tommy.

Allmosthumble,

I sincerely apologize if you feel like I might have been nit-picking on you personally while attempting to help you understand the other issue you raised in your post. On a personal level I do feel sympathy for you and the loss you feel for your loved one who passed away.

And btw, I've now completed a form which anyone may use to file their complaint against me. Perhaps a little more order around here will help to resolve our differences.

[ALatterDaySaint]

gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

The human life span can be split into a number of stages: infancy, childhood, adolescence, young adulthood, maturity and old age. The lengths of these stages, however — particularly the later ones — are not fixed.

There are striking differences in life expectancy around the world. The developed world is quickly getting older, with the median age around 40 years (highest in Monaco at 45.1 years), while in the developing world, the median age is 15–20 years (lowest in Uganda at 14.8 years). Life expectancy at birth is 77.2 years in the U.S. as of 2001.[9] The expected life span at birth in Singapore is 84.29 years for a female and 78.96 years for a male, while in Botswana, due largely to AIDS, it is 30.99 years for a male and 30.53 years for a female. One in five Europeans, but one in twenty Africans, is 60 years or older, according to The World Factbook.[10]

The number of centenarians (humans 100 years or older) in the world was estimated by the United Nations at 210,000 in 2002.[11] The current maximum life span of humans is about 120 years

[boyando]

I think everyone is miss understanding what I was trying to say. I blame myself.

Quick answer may help a little. The plam of salvation requires death. "The world" believes life began by accident. If life began by accident what caused death.

My father in laws passing was both a happy and sad time. At the funeral I and all who were there felt the comforter very strong. I love the lord and know that each of us should live as long as we can so that we may enrich the lives of other's.

Please except my appolligy for not explaining myself very well. - Your Friend Allmosthumble

[ALatterDaySaint]

IF you look at it that way then here is why there is death...because nothing lasts forever. Not the sun, not the earth, not chemical compounds, not the landscape, nothing. Death entered the world with the fall. Before that we know that Adam and Eve were immortal beings.

[Ray]

gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

The human life span can be split into a number of stages: infancy, childhood, adolescence, young adulthood, maturity and old age. The lengths of these stages, however — particularly the later ones — are not fixed.

There are striking differences in life expectancy around the world. The developed world is quickly getting older, with the median age around 40 years (highest in Monaco at 45.1 years), while in the developing world, the median age is 15–20 years (lowest in Uganda at 14.8 years). Life expectancy at birth is 77.2 years in the U.S. as of 2001.[9] The expected life span at birth in Singapore is 84.29 years for a female and 78.96 years for a male, while in Botswana, due largely to AIDS, it is 30.99 years for a male and 30.53 years for a female. One in five Europeans, but one in twenty Africans, is 60 years or older, according to The World Factbook.[10]

The number of centenarians (humans 100 years or older) in the world was estimated by the United Nations at 210,000 in 2002.[11] The current maximum life span of humans is about 120 years

Even better thoughts and work from you, ALatterDaySaint! :)

After reading that Psalm again, I can now see that the Psalmist wasn't saying that God shortened our days from 120 to 70 years, because the Psalmist was saying "our days" could reach 80 years and possibly older... without contradicting the idea that God has limited our days to 120 years.

[Ray]

IF you look at it that way then here is why there is death...because nothing lasts forever. Not the sun, not the earth, not chemical compounds, not the landscape, nothing. Death entered the world with the fall. Before that we know that Adam and Eve were immortal beings.

I appreciate what I think is your desire to be tactful while helping to teach another person, but you are giving a false impression in stating that nothing last forever... because everything lasts forever as long as there is nothing to cause Corruption… and Corruption came into this world through the Fall of Adam and Eve... when otherwise everything would have lasted forever in the state in which it existed.

But don’t despair, or don’t lose hope, because Corruption can be overcome by the condition of Restoration, and that condition has come and will continue to come through the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

[ALatterDaySaint]

<div class='quotemain'>

IF you look at it that way then here is why there is death...because nothing lasts forever. Not the sun, not the earth, not chemical compounds, not the landscape, nothing. Death entered the world with the fall. Before that we know that Adam and Eve were immortal beings.

I appreciate what I think is your desire to be tactful while helping to teach another person, but you are giving a false impression in stating that nothing last forever... because everything lasts forever as long as there is nothing to cause Corruption… and Corruption came into this world through the Fall of Adam and Eve... when otherwise everything would have lasted forever in the state in which it existed.

But don’t despair, or don’t lose hope, because Corruption can be overcome by the condition of Restoration, and that condition has come and will continue to come through the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

Actually I was thinking something a little different. When I said nothing lasts forever I didnt mean it was corrupted. Afterall matter can not be created or destroyed but only change its form. Corruption didnt enter the relm of the physical state but rather the physical state lost its ability to be unchanging. Corruption is a term we use to describe a negitive change in something that we precieve as good or perfect.

When we sin its not that we've turned to something evil that makes it bad, but that we've turned from God.

[Ray]

Actually I was thinking something a little different. When I said nothing lasts forever I didn’t mean it was corrupted. Afterall matter cannot be created or destroyed but only change its form.

Most LDS I know understand creation as the act of changing the form of something into something else, and all things are now becoming either more corrupted or regenerated to a higher form...

Corruption didn’t enter the realm of the physical state but rather the physical state lost its ability to be unchanging.

When corruption entered our realm of existence it caused all things to start falling apart, so we are now undergoing a change in one of the two directions...

Corruption is a term we use to describe a negative change in something that we perceive as good or perfect.

True, and we will all be subject to our corruption unless we achieve our state of perfection...

When we sin its not that we've turned to something evil that makes it bad, but that we've turned from God.

Same thing. When we do something bad or turn away from God we are becoming even more corrupted... instead of overcoming and becoming more advanced...

... and the only way to achieve our highest state of perfection is through the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

[ALatterDaySaint]

Death is not an explanation. Life, itself, is never, finally, explained. What follows the present life is not an after-death of explanation—but, only more of life, itself. Continued. Unexplained. And only this — mere more of life. Until, the Living Light — the Brightness That Is Consciousness, Itself — Outshines the ceaseless life-time of separate ego-"I". And Only That Outshining Brightness Un-explains the Unexplainable — by Disappearing all the living mind that asks to be explained. And, Only Then, does Only Living Light Remain.

Therefore — for now — my death exists. For now, my death confronts me. For now, my death is me. . . .

Death requires a loving, fearless, sorrowless, unangered volunteer of me. Death requires the feeling-heart's participation—enamored, self-forgetting, and without anticipation.

Death is an un-selfing kind of wind — a sudden weather, any day. Death is the body's True fidelity to life, to love, and to Reality — regardless of the weather and the day.

To die is necessary, in life's poor Mummery — but, it is not Right and True, unless it is enacted from the feeling-heart. To die by yielding bodily, from the feeling-heart—as when in the Embrace of body-love — is perfect trust, beyond every thought of the little bed of "I"-and-"other"-in-a-room. Such feeling-death exceeds all loss of human love — by means of the human heart's felt constant Un-denial of the Divine Inherent Fullness of Reality's own Love-Bliss.

The One-True-Heart's Divine True Love must be All-Shown to life — by means of the body's universal kiss of feeling-heart-Found all-and-All — in death. Therefore, true love's Right death is how the body-"I" keeps faith — with the universe, and What Is.

Even all my life — this constant dying, with the feeling-heart, is the constant toll required of me. It is required, constantly, by the tolling Bell! and constant Call, that sounds — without a thinking thought — within the node and rhythmic chamber of my breast and belly-chest of Breath.

Life is not given, anywhere, to be a life apart — for its own sake. But, life is, always, to be a death of self. A Freedom-ritual of self-sacrifice — enacted, bodily, by the Open hand of feeling-heart's true love. And the True Loved-One, of the feeling-heart, is not an "other" — ever, or at last — but, only That Which Is, forever. Always and Already — there.

Therefore, It Is Reality, Itself, That Un-confines me here — by Dying me, to death.

True Water Is the One Reality.

The One True Heart Is the One and Only Real True God.

And That True Heart-Reality Is "The Water-All" — That, always, Takes my human feeling-heart to death.

And ego-death—by feeling-heart's Free, Open hand — Is the Perfect Way to Realize the Only Truth. The Truth That Is the One True Heart — Itself.

And death of separate ego-"I" — by means of feeling-heart's true love — makes my true love, The Love Divine.

[Ray]

Heh, I sometimes work on being a poet but even then as now I'll know it:

When time to die I'm going to wake and keep on living for goodness sake,

and as my Lord my body take and then with Him our kingdom make.

Heh, and as I said, I'm not a poet. :)

[boyando]

You go Ray

[Guest Monica]

Death has no purpose, that is why Christ defeated it.

1Cr 15:26 The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.

[boyando]

Death has no purpose, that is why Christ defeated it.

1Cr 15:26 The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.

Monica;

I humbly disagree with the first part of your statement. But I'm greatfull that we both agree that Christ defeated it.