A Question

[ALatterDaySaint]

Where did God come from?

We can only partially comprehend the notion of God's existence. To do so, we must use human concepts to speak of God: "without beginning or end"; "eternal"; "infinite", etc. The Bible says that He has always existed: " . . . even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God" (Psalm 90:2). And, "Your throne is established from of old; Thou art from everlasting" (Psalm 93:2). Quite simply, God has no beginning and no end. So, where did God come from? He didn't. He always was.

To us, the notion of time is linear. One second follows the next, one minute is after another. We get older, not younger and we cannot repeat the minutes that have passed us by. We have all seen the time lines on charts: early time is on the left and later time is on the right. We see nations, people's lives, and plans mapped out on straight lines from left to right. We see a beginning and an end. But God is "beyond the chart." He has no beginning or end. He simply has always been.

Also, physics has shown that time is a property that is the result of the existence of matter. Time exists when matter exists. Time has even been called the fourth dimension. Some would say that God is not made of matter but spirit. But spirit is a type of matter. This leads me to believe that even though time doesnt effect spirit as it does matter it still effects it in some degree being that spirit is matter, just not a form of matter that we can yet understand. There is however a concept of time to God since according to scripture on Kolob 1000 earth years is a "day" to God. He created the universe. So, did time begin when God created the universe? Before that, there must have been time. There was a "time" before "the beginning". Hugh Nibley speaks about everything being seperated by veils. Perhaps its not that time effects us differently than God but that it is an altogether different time. One totally seperate and on its own course and scale and rhythem. Seperated from our reality of space time by a veil. So, to ask where God came from is to ask a question that cannot really be applied to God in the first place. Because time has a different meaning with God in relation to who He is, eternity is also not something that can be absolutely related to God. God is even beyond eternity.

Eternity is a term that we finite creatures use to express the concept of something that has no end -- and/or no beginning. Since God has no beginning or end, He has no beginning. Is this because He is outside of time, or because time is something different to him in the state which he exists?

Thoughts?

[Christos]

As time was created as part of the creation, God was there before time itself.

Genesis 1:14

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

God was never Created

God is never Created

God cannot be Created.

We musn't think of everything being bound by time, for time is an Earthly thing.

I believe that there is no time outside of Earth. This in turn answers the question of "is there a period of wait between death and day of judgement" and "why did Jesus say to the criminal "today you shall be in Paradise"".

Jesus is part of the answer to the time question, he is God and of God, begotton, not made.

I realise that I have basically paraphrased your thoughts.

[ALatterDaySaint]

As time was created as part of the creation, God was there before time itself.

Genesis 1:14

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

God was never Created

God is never Created

God cannot be Created.

To this I reply that the same holds true for all of us as the scriptures teach that we were intellegences and as intellegences we can neither be created nor destroyed.

We musn't think of everything being bound by time, for time is an Earthly thing.

I believe that there is no time outside of Earth. This in turn answers the question of "is there a period of wait between death and day of judgement" and "why did Jesus say to the criminal "today you shall be in Paradise"".

To this I reply that there is clearly time outside of earth because we can measure time and space and velocity and calculate when things will occur in outerspace. We know when our space craft will reach a given point in space based on mathmatical calculation which include time.

And, regarding the judgement, Christ did say that man would be with him in Paradise that day. Paradise is a waiting place for spirits until the Final Judgement or The Last Day. Now, by what you are suggesting that means that either I am correct and spirits and men in the flesh will all be judged together at one time on a specific day according to the Lord's own time or Judgement is eternal and without beginning or end. When we die we await judgement along with everyone else. Hence it is called "The Final Judgement" and not "Christo's Final Judgement" or "ALatterDaySaint's Final Judgement."

Jesus is part of the answer to the time question, he is God and of God, begotton, not made.

To this I reply that we are joint heirs with Christ. All that the Father has He has recieved, and all that He has recieved we recieve with Him...and is this not everything? So, basicly this brings us to the teachings that we are all litterally children of God and as such we are entitled to all that He has and are potentially destined to become like Him. A joint heir does not split or divide the estate inherrited but rather co-owns all of it equally with the other joint heirs. So this is to say we will not be a portion like God but that we will be like our Father in Heaven through Jesus Christ by His word.

I realise that I have basically paraphrased your thoughts.

You have and you havent.

And I do enjoy your thoughts. Keep them comming because they keep me thinking as well.

[Guest ApostleKnight]

Where did God come from?

We can only partially comprehend the notion of God's existence.

Reminds me of the philosopher's quandary. One asks the other, "What is the earth perched on?" The other replies, "The earth is perched on the back of a giant turtle." Says the other, "But what is the giant turtle perched on?" And the reply, "Another giant turtle." And so it goes round and round.

[Lindy]

Thoughts?

I gave up questioning God.... we will know when the time comes to know.

And that's all I need to know :)

[MaidservantX]

One thing to think about is that where and how our Heavenly Father lives IS reality, the real world, and things are as they truly are in that existence. Where MORTALS are being tested is a specialized place and all reality is not seen or known by us. In fact, whatever is not allotted to us in mortality can ONLY be told to us (by our Heavenly Father and his servants) (or shown, or GIVEN). Meaning we cannot access it on our own by mortal means. Of course, much of that real world has been told and given to us and is accessible to us--but not all. Also, another way to say it, is that the EARTH and its processes are wierd and mutative -- not the place we originally came from before we got to earth and where Heavenly Father lives.

I would like to separate the discussion of time and God's origin.

'God' is an office and state of being. All beings have the opportunity to be Gods, and many beings at any given time in the multiverse (or the real world indicated above) are in a state of Godhood. The real world (and you may include the thought of an extensive society of beings/Gods) I defined above is ancient as all get out, and thereby beyond our comprehension at this point as to any beginning, or if there was any as we normally say 'begining'. God, Heavenly Father; God, Jesus Christ (Heavenly Father's Son); and God, the Holy Ghost are in a presidency in relationship to and authority over this earth (and many others--all that they've created). As well, our spirit bodies are the literal offspring of this (our) Heavenly Father. This person, this man (Holy Man), passed a mortal test just as we are in the midst of. In this sense, that person to whom we pray, was once born a baby in a physical body on a physical planet in a mortal condition. Of course, his spirit body antedated his mortal birth, just as ours do, and we can expect that his spirit body was the literal offspring of resurrected, exalted (Heavenly) parents, just as ours are. The cycle continues backwards and forwards. So it is not so much where Heavenly Father began as it is where did this cycle first come into being?

I could discuss time extensively, but I will only make a couple of notes. First, time as we experience it as a day, or a moon (month), or a year IS and ONLY IS the record keeping of the movements of heavenly bodies (i.e. a planet revolving around its axis; a planet orbiting a star; etc). To the extent that Heavenly Father's life includes heavenly bodies moving in relationship to others, then he would experience the time of the planet he was on or near. It is that simple. (However, as I said, there are many things to talk about how time is experienced, which I won't.)

Read D & C 101:23. (Talk about dimensions!)

[boyando]

Has anyone read the origenal greek for frome everlasting to everlasting?

Not saying we got it wrong but I know that some words have different meanings when you go back to root words.

I think that some of the answers to this questions can be found in Doctrines of Salvation, volume 1, pages 10, 11 and 12.

Let me know if there is a link to that referance. If there is not I'll have my daughter type it. It would take me a month to type three pages and she can do it in about five minutes.

[Dr T]

Reminds me of the philosopher's quandary. One asks the other, "What is the earth perched on?" The other replies, "The earth is perched on the back of a giant turtle." Says the other, "But what is the giant turtle perched on?" And the reply, "Another giant turtle." And so it goes round and round.

The way I read it was,

"The earth is perched on the back of a giant turtle." Says the other, "But what is the giant turtle perched on?" And the reply was, "How about we change the subject."

Dr. T

[MaidservantX]

(And have you read Terry Pratchett's novels? The world he created DOES ride on the back of a giant turtle, lol. (Just one.))

[ALatterDaySaint]

One thing to think about is that where and how our Heavenly Father lives IS reality, the real world, and things are as they truly are in that existence. Where MORTALS are being tested is a specialized place and all reality is not seen or known by us. In fact, whatever is not allotted to us in mortality can ONLY be told to us (by our Heavenly Father and his servants) (or shown, or GIVEN). Meaning we cannot access it on our own by mortal means. Of course, much of that real world has been told and given to us and is accessible to us--but not all. Also, another way to say it, is that the EARTH and its processes are wierd and mutative -- not the place we originally came from before we got to earth and where Heavenly Father lives.

I would like to separate the discussion of time and God's origin.

'God' is an office and state of being. All beings have the opportunity to be Gods, and many beings at any given time in the multiverse (or the real world indicated above) are in a state of Godhood. The real world (and you may include the thought of an extensive society of beings/Gods) I defined above is ancient as all get out, and thereby beyond our comprehension at this point as to any beginning, or if there was any as we normally say 'begining'. God, Heavenly Father; God, Jesus Christ (Heavenly Father's Son); and God, the Holy Ghost are in a presidency in relationship to and authority over this earth (and many others--all that they've created). As well, our spirit bodies are the literal offspring of this (our) Heavenly Father. This person, this man (Holy Man), passed a mortal test just as we are in the midst of. In this sense, that person to whom we pray, was once born a baby in a physical body on a physical planet in a mortal condition. Of course, his spirit body antedated his mortal birth, just as ours do, and we can expect that his spirit body was the literal offspring of resurrected, exalted (Heavenly) parents, just as ours are. The cycle continues backwards and forwards. So it is not so much where Heavenly Father began as it is where did this cycle first come into being?

I could discuss time extensively, but I will only make a couple of notes. First, time as we experience it as a day, or a moon (month), or a year IS and ONLY IS the record keeping of the movements of heavenly bodies (i.e. a planet revolving around its axis; a planet orbiting a star; etc). To the extent that Heavenly Father's life includes heavenly bodies moving in relationship to others, then he would experience the time of the planet he was on or near. It is that simple. (However, as I said, there are many things to talk about how time is experienced, which I won't.)

Read D & C 101:23. (Talk about dimensions!)

All that and what it boils down to is you saying "God came from His Mother and Father" B)

But lets not forget that beside Him there is no savior. So, was He the begotton of His father as is Christ or is He just a joint heir with whom ever was the begotton of His Father?

[Guest ApostleKnight]

The way I read it was,

"The earth is perched on the back of a giant turtle." Says the other, "But what is the giant turtle perched on?" And the reply was, "How about we change the subject."

Dr. T

Might wanna check your prescription, you ain't readin' so good.

[Guest Monica]

like a circle

[Christos]

But there is an answer to what the Earth is held on.

It is held in the creation of God.

Suspended in the vacuum of space. Held in position be centrifugal force and gravity................

But there is an answer to where God came from. God came from everywhere. He is the uncreated.

Actually the idea that God "came from somewhere" is absurd.

Maybe creation was created at the Creation :)

[ALatterDaySaint]

He is uncreated? Your comments are as insightful as it is goofy.

Just picking on you man.

[Christos]

Stupid english language.....we demand better words!

[Outshined]

I find this one of those subjects not worth worrying about. I'll ask Him when I meet Him after death; it sure isn't important now...

[Palerider]

I find this one of those subjects not worth worrying about. I'll ask Him when I meet Him after death; it sure isn't important now...

Very well said.......and I also feel the same way......... B)

[ALatterDaySaint]

There are a lot of fun and interesting and worthy topics that arent worth worrying about out there. But if we only discussed the ones worth worrying about we'd all be wound up so tight our heads would pop. Just like play is to work I think its good and healthy to ask the questions that we know we cant answer, just to get our minds wandering a little. And this question I think is most appropriate because asking where God came from is just like asking where your dad came from. Its our divine geneology. I personally would like to see all the geneology buffs gathered together in one place in the here-after, and then see the looks on their faces when they see the accounts of all the other worlds and peoples that are also our brethren that they can now trace and learn of. Like giving a fat kid free reign of Willy Wonka's factory and no umpa-lumpas around to mess with him!

[Ray]

Thoughts?

I gave up questioning God.... we will know when the time comes to know.

And that's all I need to know :)

And all I need to know is that there's never a better time than the present. :)

[Ray]

One thing to think about is that where and how our Heavenly Father lives IS reality, the real world, and things are as they truly are in that existence. Where MORTALS are being tested is a specialized place and all reality is not seen or known by us. In fact, whatever is not allotted to us in mortality can ONLY be told to us (by our Heavenly Father and his servants) (or shown, or GIVEN). Meaning we cannot access it on our own by mortal means. Of course, much of that real world has been told and given to us and is accessible to us--but not all. Also, another way to say it, is that the EARTH and its processes are wierd and mutative -- not the place we originally came from before we got to earth and where Heavenly Father lives.

I would like to separate the discussion of time and God's origin.

'God' is an office and state of being. All beings have the opportunity to be Gods, and many beings at any given time in the multiverse (or the real world indicated above) are in a state of Godhood. The real world (and you may include the thought of an extensive society of beings/Gods) I defined above is ancient as all get out, and thereby beyond our comprehension at this point as to any beginning, or if there was any as we normally say 'begining'. God, Heavenly Father; God, Jesus Christ (Heavenly Father's Son); and God, the Holy Ghost are in a presidency in relationship to and authority over this earth (and many others--all that they've created). As well, our spirit bodies are the literal offspring of this (our) Heavenly Father. This person, this man (Holy Man), passed a mortal test just as we are in the midst of. In this sense, that person to whom we pray, was once born a baby in a physical body on a physical planet in a mortal condition. Of course, his spirit body antedated his mortal birth, just as ours do, and we can expect that his spirit body was the literal offspring of resurrected, exalted (Heavenly) parents, just as ours are. The cycle continues backwards and forwards. So it is not so much where Heavenly Father began as it is where did this cycle first come into being?

I could discuss time extensively, but I will only make a couple of notes. First, time as we experience it as a day, or a moon (month), or a year IS and ONLY IS the record keeping of the movements of heavenly bodies (i.e. a planet revolving around its axis; a planet orbiting a star; etc). To the extent that Heavenly Father's life includes heavenly bodies moving in relationship to others, then he would experience the time of the planet he was on or near. It is that simple. (However, as I said, there are many things to talk about how time is experienced, which I won't.)

Read D & C 101:23. (Talk about dimensions!)

Wow. Some great thoughts here. Thank you very much for sharing. :)

But there are a few thoughts I would like to add:

1) Our kind of God is the best kind of God there is out there, because our kind of God has dominion over all the other kinds of Gods out there... as Man was meant to have dominion over all the other kinds of life living on this Earth.

2) I believe this "cycle" never began, because it has always been and will always be this way.

3) I believe this "reality" is as real as any other state of reality, and we all see what we learn how to see.

[Christos]

<div class='quotemain'>

One thing to think about is that where and how our Heavenly Father lives IS reality, the real world, and things are as they truly are in that existence. Where MORTALS are being tested is a specialized place and all reality is not seen or known by us. In fact, whatever is not allotted to us in mortality can ONLY be told to us (by our Heavenly Father and his servants) (or shown, or GIVEN). Meaning we cannot access it on our own by mortal means. Of course, much of that real world has been told and given to us and is accessible to us--but not all. Also, another way to say it, is that the EARTH and its processes are wierd and mutative -- not the place we originally came from before we got to earth and where Heavenly Father lives.

I would like to separate the discussion of time and God's origin.

'God' is an office and state of being. All beings have the opportunity to be Gods, and many beings at any given time in the multiverse (or the real world indicated above) are in a state of Godhood. The real world (and you may include the thought of an extensive society of beings/Gods) I defined above is ancient as all get out, and thereby beyond our comprehension at this point as to any beginning, or if there was any as we normally say 'begining'. God, Heavenly Father; God, Jesus Christ (Heavenly Father's Son); and God, the Holy Ghost are in a presidency in relationship to and authority over this earth (and many others--all that they've created). As well, our spirit bodies are the literal offspring of this (our) Heavenly Father. This person, this man (Holy Man), passed a mortal test just as we are in the midst of. In this sense, that person to whom we pray, was once born a baby in a physical body on a physical planet in a mortal condition. Of course, his spirit body antedated his mortal birth, just as ours do, and we can expect that his spirit body was the literal offspring of resurrected, exalted (Heavenly) parents, just as ours are. The cycle continues backwards and forwards. So it is not so much where Heavenly Father began as it is where did this cycle first come into being?

I could discuss time extensively, but I will only make a couple of notes. First, time as we experience it as a day, or a moon (month), or a year IS and ONLY IS the record keeping of the movements of heavenly bodies (i.e. a planet revolving around its axis; a planet orbiting a star; etc). To the extent that Heavenly Father's life includes heavenly bodies moving in relationship to others, then he would experience the time of the planet he was on or near. It is that simple. (However, as I said, there are many things to talk about how time is experienced, which I won't.)

Read D & C 101:23. (Talk about dimensions!)

Wow. Some great thoughts here. Thank you very much for sharing. :)

But one thought I would like to add is that our kind of God is the best kind of God there is out there, because our kind of God has dominion over all the other kinds of Gods out there... as Man has dominion over all the other kinds of life living on this Earth.

What

Is Mormonism so liberal that it accepts other Gods from other religions?

Is Mormonism a polytheistic religion?

I am hoping that I am quoting the greatest of all commandments in vain.

Exodus 20

1And God spake all these words, saying,

2I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

[Ray]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

One thing to think about is that where and how our Heavenly Father lives IS reality, the real world, and things are as they truly are in that existence. Where MORTALS are being tested is a specialized place and all reality is not seen or known by us. In fact, whatever is not allotted to us in mortality can ONLY be told to us (by our Heavenly Father and his servants) (or shown, or GIVEN). Meaning we cannot access it on our own by mortal means. Of course, much of that real world has been told and given to us and is accessible to us--but not all. Also, another way to say it, is that the EARTH and its processes are wierd and mutative -- not the place we originally came from before we got to earth and where Heavenly Father lives.

I would like to separate the discussion of time and God's origin.

'God' is an office and state of being. All beings have the opportunity to be Gods, and many beings at any given time in the multiverse (or the real world indicated above) are in a state of Godhood. The real world (and you may include the thought of an extensive society of beings/Gods) I defined above is ancient as all get out, and thereby beyond our comprehension at this point as to any beginning, or if there was any as we normally say 'begining'. God, Heavenly Father; God, Jesus Christ (Heavenly Father's Son); and God, the Holy Ghost are in a presidency in relationship to and authority over this earth (and many others--all that they've created). As well, our spirit bodies are the literal offspring of this (our) Heavenly Father. This person, this man (Holy Man), passed a mortal test just as we are in the midst of. In this sense, that person to whom we pray, was once born a baby in a physical body on a physical planet in a mortal condition. Of course, his spirit body antedated his mortal birth, just as ours do, and we can expect that his spirit body was the literal offspring of resurrected, exalted (Heavenly) parents, just as ours are. The cycle continues backwards and forwards. So it is not so much where Heavenly Father began as it is where did this cycle first come into being?

I could discuss time extensively, but I will only make a couple of notes. First, time as we experience it as a day, or a moon (month), or a year IS and ONLY IS the record keeping of the movements of heavenly bodies (i.e. a planet revolving around its axis; a planet orbiting a star; etc). To the extent that Heavenly Father's life includes heavenly bodies moving in relationship to others, then he would experience the time of the planet he was on or near. It is that simple. (However, as I said, there are many things to talk about how time is experienced, which I won't.)

Read D & C 101:23. (Talk about dimensions!)

Wow. Some great thoughts here. Thank you very much for sharing. :)

But one thought I would like to add is that our kind of God is the best kind of God there is out there, because our kind of God has dominion over all the other kinds of Gods out there... as Man has dominion over all the other kinds of life living on this Earth.

What

Is Mormonism so liberal that it accepts other Gods from other religions?

Is Mormonism a polytheistic religion?

I am hoping that I am quoting the greatest of all commandments in vain.

Exodus 20

1And God spake all these words, saying,

2I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

I think you should try to "see" what I was saying in the context of xhenli's post, to "know" what I meant by "other kinds of Gods", but No, I don't believe we would worship any other kind of God before our kind of God, because as I said, our kind of God is the best kind of God there is.

[Christos]

Our Lord Jehova. The Father Almighty, Creater of Heaven and Earth and of all things visible and invisible is an awesome God.

He is also, the only God.

[Ray]

Our Lord Jehova. The Father Almighty, Creater of Heaven and Earth and of all things visible and invisible is an awesome God.

He is also, the only God.

Christos,

To put it simply, xhenli was basically saying that all forms of life have a "perfected" state of being, and he was referring to that idea with the idea that those other forms of life can and do become perfect "Gods" in their own way, and I was agreeing with his idea about that.

And whether or not you know it, and whether or not you agree with it, there are and will continue to be "beasts" or "animals" and other "kinds" or "forms" of life in heaven who are just as perfect in their form and realm of existence as our Father is perfect in His form and realm of existence... and as I said, our "kind" of God is and will always be the best "kind" of God, because there are no higher "forms" of life or any other higher "kinds" of life anywhere that is out there in existence.

[boyando]

Our Lord Jehova. The Father Almighty, Creater of Heaven and Earth and of all things visible and invisible is an awesome God.

He is also, the only God.

Might it be said that he is the only God that we worship, or should worship (no freakin out over the God head please, I'm just making a point about how many gods [yes little g] there are.)

When we love money more than God, we make that our god, to our own distruction.

Money aint a bad thing, I liked to have some some day. If I die with out a dime, I can still be happy trying to do the thing the Lord has asked me to do.