Why Does Hell Have To Be Eternal?

[Serg]

Sorry if i misunderstood you.

Thanks

[prisonchaplain]

If you could be a little more open-minded and realize that what you expect from the non-LDS here will not always come to pass. You want everyone to become Mormon and that’s not going to happen. Not everyone is built for the Mormon Church. No matter how much its right for you Ray, it’s not right for everyone. And there’s nothing on this board in its rules that say, “If you non-LDS don’t join the LDS church, you can’t come to this site.”

A lot of people find Ray's approach to dialogue troubling, and the bold-faced section tells why. On the other hand, Ray comes from an evangelical background--one that is quite conservative. So, his approach resonates with me on one score:

He believes the LDS gospel is for everyone, and is unashamed about aggressively pressing his cause. The claims of Joseph Smith, in the end, are either true or false, right or wrong, supremely blessed or wickedly deceiving. In the end there is no middle ground. Ray's approach might not be the style of those raised in the LDS Church, but I, quite frankly, find it refreshingly direct.

Maureen, of course, you're right that not every non-LDS person comes here as an almost-converted investigator, waiting to be ushered in. I've stated several times that I come to share and learn. I'm mature enough to receive Ray's invitations to study, learn, believe, just as I am mature enough to issue my own such invitations in the right context.

So, let the dialogue continue! BTW, why was it again that hell has to be eternal?

[Ray]

Thanks Tommy. My background does have a lot to do with the person I am, and I’m happy you’re not offended with my efforts to try to help you. :)

And btw, the reason Hell is eternal is because God needs some place to put His wicked children, or those who don’t really want to love Him and accept what He tells them.

And No, even if God could totally annihilate those of us who don’t truly love Him and accept what He tells us, He really and truly doesn’t want to do that, because He loves us all enough to leave us alone if we don’t really want to be with Him or have the happiness that He can help us know how to find.

… except that we all can’t stay here, because this is to become a righteous planet where God and those who truly love Him can come.

… so those of us who are wicked will still be resurrected, with their spirits never again to be separated from their bodies, and then sent somewhere else to live forever without God... just as they are doing right now.

[Sugarbay]

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If you could be a little more open-minded and realize that what you expect from the non-LDS here will not always come to pass. You want everyone to become Mormon and that’s not going to happen. Not everyone is built for the Mormon Church. No matter how much its right for you Ray, it’s not right for everyone. And there’s nothing on this board in its rules that say, “If you non-LDS don’t join the LDS church, you can’t come to this site.”

A lot of people find Ray's approach to dialogue troubling, and the bold-faced section tells why. On the other hand, Ray comes from an evangelical background--one that is quite conservative. So, his approach resonates with me on one score:

He believes the LDS gospel is for everyone, and is unashamed about aggressively pressing his cause. The claims of Joseph Smith, in the end, are either true or false, right or wrong, supremely blessed or wickedly deceiving. In the end there is no middle ground. Ray's approach might not be the style of those raised in the LDS Church, but I, quite frankly, find it refreshingly direct.

Maureen, of course, you're right that not every non-LDS person comes here as an almost-converted investigator, waiting to be ushered in. I've stated several times that I come to share and learn. I'm mature enough to receive Ray's invitations to study, learn, believe, just as I am mature enough to issue my own such invitations in the right context.

So, let the dialogue continue! BTW, why was it again that hell has to be eternal?

I am so glad to have an association with Chap. He is a good and righteous man and I believe Father approves of his ways more than he approves of some of the LDS people we may run across.

Question for Monica...why is it, as an LDS person as indicated below your avatar, do you never use any quotes from the BoM? You remind me of someone who was here a long time ago from a far away galaxy called Just Looking. Well the anonymous "they" say we all have a twin somewhere. It is so uncanny.

[Guest MrsS]

Question for Monica...why is it, as an LDS person as indicated below your avatar, do you never use any quotes from the BoM? You remind me of someone who was here a long time ago from a far away galaxy called Just Looking. Well the anonymous "they" say we all have a twin somewhere. It is so uncanny.

Not only the BoM, but also the D&C, Articles of Faith, Pear of Great Price, any quote(s) from the Ensign.

[Dror]

Judgement. Punishment. Hell. Eternal damnation. Horrific words and phrases. A concept difficult to digest. LDS theology has mitigated this teaching, by resigning to hell–or the outer darkness–only the most reprobate and apostate. Nevertheless, the idea that even one human soul would have to spend an unending eternity in hell is one that needs explanation, and perhaps even defending.

C.S. Lewis is known to have said that while he find the doctrine of hell detestable, the question to ask is: “Is it true? I'd argue that if hell is true, we’d best digest and embrace what this reality does to our beliefs.

Scripture does seem clear on the matter:

Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life. Matthew 25:46

God, “will give to each person according to what he has done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; Romans 2:6-9

God is just: He will pay back trouble to shoe who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power. 2 Thessalonians 1:6-9

And the devil, who deceived them was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Revelation 20:10

Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out–those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned. John 5:28-29

All verses are from the New International Version.

My own thought on the eternal nature of hell: Jesus is not like us. His memory is beyond time, and it does not fade. Therefore, his life of suffering and rejection on earth, his beatings, and those moments of separation from the Heavenly Father–these are all burned into his memory for all eternity. In effect, Jesus lives hell for us for all eternity. He took eternal hell and damnation upon himself at Calvary. Those who reject his love and forgiveness must thus take the everlasting punishment upon themselves.

Interesting question, PC, and one I've struggled with. After much thinking, and under the influence of my Institute Director, I have begun to wonder if hell isn't less a matter of God's punishing us than of our suffering the natural consequences of our sins. The more I think about it, the harder time I have imagining God wanting us to suffer, regardless of our actions in this life. Additionally, I have to wonder how just it would be to punish someone for eternity for something they did during this mortal life, no matter how horrible. Think of it, infinite punishment for a finite action? The only justifications I can think of for infinite punishment are (a) never ceasing to sin, and (B) committing a sin that has infinite consequences. The closest thing to the latter I can think of is leading another person astray. Even in that situation, unless we somehow take away the other person's free agency, that person is still at least partly responsible for going astray. As for (a), one could theoretically repent.

Keep in mind that this is all just speculation and wondering out loud. I certainly wouldn't want to minimize the seriousness of sin or its consequence. Nevertheless, neither would I want to minimize God's love and compassion for all of His children. I picture God suffering when we sin, both for those we hurt, and for us, because we hurt ourselves. I picture Him reaching out, waiting, pleading for us to come to Him and find rest to our souls. I picture Him getting extremely hurt and angry when one person seriously hurts another person, especially if the victim is one of the weak and vulnerable. But I also picture Him continuing to love the perpetrator and wanting him to repent, both so he won't have to continue suffering, and to make the victim feel better. I picture God wanting the perpetrator and victim to reconcile, to get along with each, to love each other and communite with each other again. What could possibly be more sublime?

I have serious problems with (some) evangelicals' seemingly gleeful anticipation of the day when they get to watch the wicked suffer. Why would anyone want to watch somebody else suffer? That is satanic. In the Pearl of Great Price God weeps because the wicked are suffering for their sins, and He doesn't want them to have to suffer.

I have the impression Jesus died so we wouldn't have to suffer the full consequences of our sins, because He loves us. (BTW, the scriptures mention Jesus having a fullness of joy, so I'm not sure about the idea that He suffers eternally for our sins. Maybe He somehow manages to do both, I don't know.) If we repent, we can find peace and happiness. God is not inclined to force us to do anything, not even whatever is necessary for us to be happy, such as repentance. We can choose not to repent, and therefore continue suffering, and I wonder if that isn't what hell is. If we never repent, we never stop suffering, but that's not what God wants. And it's not something God consigns us to--it's something we take upon ourselves.

Again, I don't know. These are just some of my thoughts/impressions. I have not examined the Scriptures specifically to answer these questions and check these thoughts, so I may be way off. All I know is that I have a hard time imagining a God who "is love" willingly making His children suffer. Maybe I'm partly influenced by my mother's love for me, and by difficulty imagining any parent wanting her children to suffer--and God is even more loving (that last is a scriptural idea!).