How do you discern the wheat from the tares?

[slamjet]

Its not your job, leave it to Christ and His angels.

However, there is judging as to what's good and what's to be avoided is the same as who's good and who's to be avoided. So a certain amount of judgment is necessary to stay on the straight and narrow path. I think that wisdom is righteous judgment according to the fruits from a person vs judging according to their state of wickedness and repentance.

I dunno, there's a line in there somewhere and it's difficult to see where it is sometimes.

[Connie]

Elder Oak's gave a great discourse on what constitutes a righetous judgement. See: Judge Not and Judging

That's a really good one. It was also printed in the August 1999 Ensign.

[Matthew0059]

If those of you who are saying that we shouldn't judge others in this life will read the articles linked by Connie and ryanh, you will understand where I'm coming from.

In the words of Elder Oaks (in the article ryanh linked), I am speaking of righteous intermediate judging. I have laid out some of the principles and keys here on how to do it.

Please, do not suppose that I am speaking of final judgments! And do not suppose I am only speaking of people! To us innocent children, many different ideas and philosophies of men may seem good when we first learn of them, but are of the devil. The process whereby you righteously judge the actions of others is the same process you righteously judge and weigh the spirits! And it is the MASTER who said "by their fruits ye shall know them"!

[Dravin]

Please, do not suppose that I am speaking of final judgments!

Then referencing scripture that makes reference to burning those (tares) who you want to distinguish from may not have been the best choice rhetorically speaking. I understand what you are saying now, but your choice of scriptural reference gave you an uphill battle in making yourself understood.

[Matthew0059]

Then referencing scripture that makes reference to burning those (tares) who you want to distinguish from may not have been the best choice rhetorically speaking. I understand what you are saying now, but your choice of scriptural reference gave you an uphill battle in making yourself understood.

Yeah, I realize that now. I have a unique way of looking at the world.

30 posts into the thread, I might have finally made myself clear...

Edited March 9, 2011 by Matthew0059

[stormwitch]

Please, do not suppose that I am speaking of final judgments! And do not suppose I am only speaking of people! To us innocent children, many different ideas and philosophies of men may seem good when we first learn of them, but are of the devil. The process whereby you righteously judge the actions of others is the same process you righteously judge and weigh the spirits! And it is the MASTER who said "by their fruits ye shall know them"!

Hm, what else ist the discerning the wheat from the tares but the final judgement?

[Matthew0059]

Hm, what else ist the discerning the wheat from the tares but the final judgement?

Sister, the key word is discerning, or knowing the nature of something.

There is a difference between knowing something's nature and gathering the wheat and burning the tares (which is the role of GOD and HIS holy angels).

Forget the wheat and the tares analogy- for my purposes, it was a bad one. Think of it this way:

How do you tell the difference between someone working good works and someone working evil works? And how do you tell the difference between good and evil philosophies, ideas, and religions?

I laid out how to do so a few pages ago.

[MileHighFool]

May I propose an alternative interpretation of this parable. When the our focus is turned inward and we become more focused on the progression of our own soul and not the righteousness of those outward I believe we can see this parable slightly differently.

The "enemy" does not have power to sow any souls. Could not this parable mean that God plants us in mortality, and the good we have in us, and as with opposition in all things, the enemy is allowed to plant within us tares. God does not cut us off, or dig us up when the tares are perhaps at their fullest in our lives, but rather allows us to continue to grow and live through maturity. As we grow, progress, and repent we approach maturity and the end of our lives at which time, or thereafter, it matters not, the atonement baptises us with fire and the tares of our imperfections are burned away. It is in this interpretation I find the greatest mercy and grace of the Savior. But perhaps that is merely only that which I alone am looking for and not the more generally intended interpretation of the parable.

Nonetheless, it is for you all to ponder in your hearts.

[gruden]

Simple question:

How can someone discern the wheat in the church and the world from the tares?

(The wheat are truly faithful members who are wise like the 5 wise virgins; the tares are the members who are not faithful in their hearts and are unwise like the 5 unwise virgins)

Why is this important?

Reading this it seems like you're practicing rhetoric - is there something else you're after?

I do agree with you, however, that discerning is NOT the same as judging. Elder Bednar once told us to "listen, observe, discern." This is what I think you're getting at. And let me tell you, I once looked directly into Elder Bednar's eyes and he looked directly back at me, and I can tell you he has the power of discernment. I have no doubt of that whatsoever.

It might be helpful though, to not speak in terms of wheats and tares. I believe it is possible, in the course of a lifetime, to shift back and forth, depending on the obedience being practiced at a given time. At some point we will each have to ultimately choose what we are, and that's our final state. Even if you discern someone as a tare, that may not be their ultimate fate - they may come around - and this is why the Lord told the avenging angels to hold off. Some will come back.

My suggestion is to cultivate the gift of discernment. It is my personal belief that this is one of the greatest spiritual gifts of our time (and the most ignored) because there are so many cleverly disguised lies that even many well-meaning and sincere Saints fall for them. The gift of discernment is one of those great utilitarian spiritual gifts that can help one circumnavigate the dangerous rocks in the sea of scripture mingled with the philosophies of men.

I will tell you this: many wards have wolves in sheep's clothing in them. I have observed this myself. Our church has been infiltrated. I think it is a wise thing to be able to discern, because there are those who walk among us and rub shoulders with us and talk the talk very well, and are good in keeping up appearances, but have very different ideas about how things will turn out. It is not wise to confront or antagonize them, but good to be aware of them and wary. Be friendly, but do not follow them.

We should be as wise as serpents but as harmless as lambs. To judge, of course we shouldn't do that, but we should discern - and be very good at it. I know from personal experience there are/have been church leaders that have keen discernment; there's no reason we can't be like that. If we don't, we could be deceived, and we ourselves may end up with the tares despite our best intentions.

Edited April 23, 2011 by gruden

[Snapz]

We know that just the fact we have a physical body means we are on the right tract. We didn't fall with Satan. There are times when even the nicest most spiritual person can be a "tare" but with true repentance becomes the "wheat" again. For me the question I asked myself is, what have I done to help my child, my husband, my neighbor and most of all myself, remain in the "WHEAT" shelf today :)

[JudoMinja]

We all have within us the "Spirit of Christ" to help discern good from evil and truth from lies. Even those not in the church have this gift. We just have to learn how to use it and cultivate it. Recognizing what is good and true is very important as we attempt to determine the direction our lives should take and as we strive to teach others.

I do not believe this ability to discern is there to help us determine what "people" to avoid- only what "environments" to avoid and which to engage in. Even the worst person can produce "good fruit" in the proper setting. And as we strengthen our ability to discern, we can find great moral lessons even in things we may have previously found meaningless. For instance- I often find myself pulling great lessons and connections out of the books I read for pleasure, because I seek out the moral truths hidden within.

I do not rely on the little tidbits I get from these fun books or other media sources for the meat of my spiritual growth, however, because doing so would leave me very limited. It takes far too much work to sift through all the deception and lies also strong in the media. Instead, I spend the majority of my time learning from the scriptures and other church resources. My "fun" books are meant for just that- fun, but I make sure to seek fun only from books that have at least tidbits of truth in them so I am not exposing myself to strongly influential and misleading media.

For most, it is a real simple discernment to know that a bar is not the best setting to put oneself in, and we will find ourselves strengthened and enriched through church attendance. The more we build and attune our "Spirit of Christ" and power of discernment, the more we will be able to pick apart which environments and "exposures" will be bad and which will be good. We can find ourselves picking up on "the ring of truth" in another's words and feel that little "inkling" that something should be avoided. Personally, when I am using my "discernment" there is this feeling just beyond my ability to describe, something like an internal "meter" that can identify "true" and "untrue". The more I listen to and follow that feeling, the better I become at identifying it.