Did Human Spirits Exist Before Creation?

[prisonchaplain]

The questions I have is this: According to your beliefs, where do angels come from?

God made them. They are a different species than humans.

And if we do not become angels or gods when we leave this life, what do we become. Do you have any biblical references I can look up?

Here's my notes from a lesson I did on this very topic:

Heaven Is Real! Most people have tasted of hell, but how many have tasted of heaven?

Heaven is the reason we trust God.

I. John 14:1-3

A. Jesus wants us to trust Him and the Father.

1. This is the key to heaven. Trust & Obey for There’s No Other Way . . .

2. Heaven will make everything right. 1 Cor 13 says that now we see through a glass darkly–then we shall see clearly, because we shall see Jesus face to face.

B. Jesus says He is preparing a place for us. If earth took six days to make, and Jesus has been working on our new place in heaven for 2000 years, how wonderful it will be!

C. Jesus says He will be there with us. He loves us!

Transition: If heaven is the answer, what will be different there compared with here?

II. Revelation 21:1-4

A. The first heaven and the first earth passed away.

1. All the injustices.

2. All the pain.

3. All the broken relationships.

4. All our mistakes.

B. God calls the New Jerusalem a bride. Compare with earth, which he simply called good.

C. God will be with us!

1. No more separation.

2. No more loneliness.

3. No more desperate searching and waiting.

C. All hardships will be gone. Why?

1. The curse of the Fall of humanity is broken! Gen. 3:15

2. Our relationship with God is now complete. Rev. 3:20

Transition: So our hardships will be gone. What will take their place?

III. Revelation 21:22-27

A. We no longer go to worship God. Our very existence is worship and communion with Him!

B. We no longer depend on nature, or any creation of God, for what we need. God, Himself, is our source.

C. We no longer worry about safety. There is no evil and no danger.

D. We no longer struggle with sin and temptation–there is no evil intent in heaven!

Transition: Wow...direct relationship with God! Our finally passage shows that all doubts are removed, and our lives gain tremendous purpose.

IV. Revelation 22:3-5

A. The curse of sin (sickness, corruption and death) are gone!

B. We will know God personally, and we will clearly belong to Him! No more doubts!

C. God will be our light and we will rule with Him!

1. This means, in spite of how much God will provide, we will still have very meaningful work to do.

2. But it won’t be hard–it will be the work of rulers.

Conclusions

1. Heaven will be so wonderful.

2. I want to be there. So, I must follow Jesus–the only way to heaven. John 14:6

3. I want my loved ones there–so I must tell them about Jesus.

4. I want everyone there–so I must tell them about Jesus.

[Guest ApostleKnight]

God made [angels]. They are a different species than humans.

What scriptures prompted this conclusion, specifically the different species remark?

[prisonchaplain]

<div class='quotemain'>

God made [angels]. They are a different species than humans.

What scriptures prompted this conclusion, specifically the different species remark?

I'm not trying to be humorous, but it's like you asking why I say cats are a different species from dogs, and requiring a prooftext. They are called differently, described differently, play different roles in the universal drama of God's creation. We have no stories of humans becoming angels or angels becoming humans. My guess is that the LDS distinctives concerning angels primarily come from the Triad, not the Bible.

[Guest MrsS]

My guess is that the LDS distinctives concerning angels primarily come from the Triad, not the Bible.

Triad??? Do you mean the Standard Works, OR Doctrine and Covenents? Or perhaps you heard a member call the book where the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price are bound into one book a Trip, or Triple Combination. Is this what you mean?

[Guest ApostleKnight]

...it's like you asking why I say cats are a different species from dogs, and requiring a prooftext.

I can see you don't understand my question. LDS beliefs concerning angels are found here, and here.

What I was asking you was what specifically in the Bible led you to conclude that angels were not related to human spirits. I'm not really interested in pursuing it...just wanted to understand your view better.

We have no stories of humans becoming angels or angels becoming humans.

When you say "we" you must be referring to students of the Bible only, because there are many additional insights and revelations to be had in modern scripture (BoM, D&C, PoGP) that address the matter. :) Thanks for your response anyway.

[Maureen]

<div class='quotemain'>

God made [angels]. They are a different species than humans.

What scriptures prompted this conclusion, specifically the different species remark?

Hey AK, here's some suggested reading about Angels:

Angelology The Doctrine of Angels (By: J. Hampton Keathley, III , Th.M.)

http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=712

M.

[prisonchaplain]

Triad??? Do you mean the Standard Works, OR Doctrine and Covenents? Or perhaps you heard a member call the book where the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price are bound into one book a Trip, or Triple Combination. Is this what you mean?

The final option. I didn't make the term up. I've heard it called that. But, yes, the BoM, D&C, and PoGP. Sorry, if I used a slang term--didn't mean to.

I can see you don't understand my question. LDS beliefs concerning angels are found here, and here.

What I was asking you was what specifically in the Bible led you to conclude that angels were not related to human spirits. I'm not really interested in pursuing it...just wanted to understand your view better.

When you say "we" you must be referring to students of the Bible only, because there are many additional insights and revelations to be had in modern scripture (BoM, D&C, PoGP) that address the matter. :) Thanks for your response anyway.

If you take your comments all together, and my responses, you have your answers. Without the three distinctive LDS Scripture texts, there is no reason for non-LDS to imagine that angels are anything but angels, and that there is any connection between them and humans, anymore than there is a relationship between dogs and cats. So, all I can refer you to in the Bible are all the accounts of angels and what they do. They are always described in their own way, and there is no hint of a common nature with humans.

[Ray]

But the fact that the Bible may not mention the idea of angels being related to us (with “human” spirits) is not the same and does not support the conclusion that angels were and are NOT related to us (with “human” spirits).

And btw, although I’m retired right now, I’ll still drop in now and then when I want to.

[Guest MrsS]

<<snip>> I didn't make the term up. I've heard it called that. But, yes, the BoM, D&C, and PoGP. Sorry, if I used a slang term--didn't mean to. <<snip even more>>

You didn't do anything wrong PC, who ever said Triad got it mixed up. It is Trips or Triple. Just to be on the safe side, I went to the Gospel Library on lds.org and searched Triad. What I got was this:

“News of the Church,” Ensign, Apr. 2006, 77

Select floors of the Plaza Hotel will become student housing for LDS Business College this fall as the school makes its transition from its present location in Salt Lake City to its new campus at the Triad Center downtown. The housing arrangement with the hotel will be used for at least a year and then evaluated.

and this:

Vernice Wineera, “News of the Church,” Ensign, Feb. 1995, 79

“Laie has since been crowned with a magnificent temple which flanks this campus on the one hand. The campus is flanked on the other by the beautiful and unique Polynesian Cultural Center.” Calling the three institutions a “triad of learning,” President Hunter noted that they “have a significant place in the plan of the Lord to further the work of his kingdom.”

Even so, neither I nor my husband have ever heard the Triple Combination called Triad. We LDS abbreviate more than our fair share, so most of the time there is no offense taked.

[prisonchaplain]

[You didn't do anything wrong PC, who ever said Triad got it mixed up. It is Trips or Triple.

SIGH...RELIEF! It must be one of the more common bindings, because I grabbed one our chapel library to do my "grappling with the primary texts."

[Ray]

Yes.

You can get the Book of Mormon either:

bound alone in a book by itself (much easier to carry around that way)

or

bound with our 2 other "primary texts" (for those who might want to keep it separated from the Holy Bible - which is about the same size but still bigger than the 3 other "books" we have), formally known as the Triple Combination, or by whatever nickname you might want to give it - I had never heard it called the Triad before I heard you call it that.

or

bound with all 3 of our other "primary texts", (for those who might want to have all of our "official" scriptures bound together in one book), formally known as the Quadruple Combination, or by what I and others call the "Quad"

And btw, I had never heard our "official" scriptures called the "primary texts" before either, until I heard you call them that, but I think that term makes sense.

:)

[prisonchaplain]

And btw, I had never heard our "official" scriptures called the "primary texts" before either, until I heard you call them that, but I think that term makes sense.

:)

"Primary texts" is actually a historians' term--versus secondary sources. Scriptures would be primary sources, commentaries secondary, for example.

[BenRaines]

PC, now that you are enlightened about how we might call our scriptures you should be about ready for LDS baptism. LOL.

Ben Raines.

PS: I used to carry a Quad but felt that it would be better to teach those who are not LDS using the KJV of the bible as one book and the triple combination, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price as a separate set of books.

[prisonchaplain]

PC, now that you are enlightened about how we might call our scriptures you should be about ready for LDS baptism. LOL.

Ben Raines.

I learned to sing:

The B. I. B. L. E.

Yes that's the Book for me

I stand alone on the word of God

The B. I. B. L. E. ...

BIBLE!

some six years before I was first baptized. Maybe I'm slow.

PS: I used to carry a Quad but felt that it would be better to teach those who are not LDS using the KJV of the bible as one book and the triple combination, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price as a separate set of books.

Wise move on several counts. If you have 10 thumbs, like I do, the triple combination is probably a lot easier to handle than a quadruple comination would be.

[miztrniceguy]

when i went back to church i got the triple. plus matching bible....wish now i had gotten a quad, as i hate switching books back and forth

[Ray]

when i went back to church i got the triple. plus matching bible....wish now i had gotten a quad, as i hate switching books back and forth

Just buy another set, when you can afford it, as well as a cheap Book of Mormon (the ones we give away).

Or you can do like I did, and get them all on a palm computer, so they're all easy to carry everywhere. :)

[miztrniceguy]

Just buy another set, when you can afford it, as well as a cheap Book of Mormon (the ones we give away).

i plan to eventually....but not high on the list right now

[Dr T]

Hello Ray,

You said

And btw, although I’m retired right now, I’ll still drop in now and then when I want to.

above. What does that mean? Retired from what?

Thanks

[Ray]

I retired from this website a short while ago. Which means that I'm now just donating my time.

(I often get frustrated with a lot of YOU PEOPLE and it takes me some time to cool off)

(PLUS, I'm still trying to break my addiction to this website, and I say stuff like that to help me go)