Free Mason's... temple bag?

[NeuroTypical]

I know some protestant sects have all sorts of problems with the Masons, never knew about the Catholic position. That's interesting - thanks for explaining it.

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

what violence has the brotherhood committed against the catholic church? that is absurd rubbish.

You really should read what you're responding to. I said that the Masons have enchartered (made part of their platform) the destruction of the Catholic Church. The anti-catholicism vitriol of Masons has been laid thick since the 18th centuries with comments such as:

"The papacy has been for a thousand years the torturer and curse of humanity, the most shameless imposture, in its pretense to spiritual power of all ages." Freemason General Albert Pike (1891)

The Masons also took over the governments of France and Portugal in 1877 and 1910 respectively and openly persecuted Catholics. Contempt for the papacy is a hallmark of Freemasonry.

whether your catholic or not doesn't change the fact that i know several faithful catholic masons.

Freemasons are required to swear an oath to a quasi-religious organization, something utterly incompatible with one's allegience to the Catholic Church. Whatever Masons you know, they cannot be at the same time Catholic in accordance with Catholic law. Once their involvement with the Masons comes to light, they will be excommunicated.

I pray they are swiftly discovered.

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

The eight popes who have condemned Freemasonry since its inception:

Clement XII, In Eminenti, 28 April 1738

This constitution was the first public written attack by the papacy against Masonry. In In Eminenti the principal objections to Freemasonry given were: that it was open to men of all religions; that there were oaths taken; that Masons denied clerical authority, and that Masons met in secret.4 Pope Clement forbade Masonic membership by Catholics and directed the "Inquisitors of Heretical Depravity" to take action against Catholics who became Masons or assisted Freemasonry in any way. He ordered excommunication as punishment for those who defied his ban.

Benedict XIV, Providas, 18 May 1751

This constitution confirmed In Eminenti and condemned Freemasonry on the grounds of its naturalism, demand for oaths, secrecy, religious indifferentism, possible threat to the church and state. It specifically forbids Roman Catholics from seeking membership in any Masonic group.5

Pius VII, Ecclesiam A Jesu Christo, 13 September 1821

The constitution Ecclesiam specifies excommunication for Freemasons and gives as reason for the censure the oath bound secrecy of the society and their conspiracies against the church and state. It also links Freemasonry with the Society of the Carbonari, known as the "Charcoal Burners", who at that time were active in Italy and were believed to be a revolutionary group.6

Leo XII, Quo Gravioria Mala, 13 March 1825

This constitution restated the Roman Catholic Church's objection to Freemasonry as a secret society, with oath-bound secrecy, which conspires against church and state.7

Pius VIII, Traditi Humilitati, 24 May 1829

This encyclical is considered by some Roman Catholic authorities to be an anti-Masonic polemic.8 It warned against a secret society whose "cunning purpose is to...lead the students along the path of Baal." It called for Catholics to "...eradicate those secret societies of factious men who, completely opposed to God and to princes, are wholly dedicated to bringing about the fall of the Church, the destruction of kingdoms, and disorder in the whole world."9 It also makes reference to the anti-Masonic pronouncements of previous popes.

Litteris Altero, 25 March 1830

This apostolic letter reiterated earlier papal condemnations of Freemasonry. It specifically condemns the influence of Freemasonry in education.10

Gregory XVI, Mirari Vos, 15 August 1832

This was an encyclical on liberalism and religious indifferentism. Religious indifferentism is defined as "... the fraud of the wicked who claim that it is possible to obtain the eternal salvation of the soul by the profession of any kind of religion, as long as morality is maintained." This encyclical does not mention Masonry, but religious indifferentism is one of the charges often leveled against Freemasonry in papal pronouncements.11 Some Roman Catholic authorities identify this pronouncement as anti-Masonic.12

Pius IX, Qui Pluribus, 9 November 1846

This encyclical calls for Roman Catholics to fight against heresy. It decries those who put human reason above faith, and who believe in human progress. Strangely, it also attacks secret "sects" and "crafty" Bible societies who "force on people of all kinds, even the uneducated, gifts of the Bible." This encyclical also calls "perverse" religious indifferentism.13 While not mentioning Masonry directly, it criticizes those it does not identify for those same faults that the previous papal pronouncements imputed to Freemasonry, and is regarded as an anti-Masonic pronouncement by some Catholic sources.

source: Roman Catholic Church law regarding Freemasonry

[Guest saintish]

You really should read what you're responding to. I said that the Masons have enchartered (made part of their platform) the destruction of the Catholic Church. The anti-catholicism vitriol of Masons has been laid thick since the 18th centuries with comments such as:

"The papacy has been for a thousand years the torturer and curse of humanity, the most shameless imposture, in its pretense to spiritual power of all ages." Freemason General Albert Pike (1891)

No the distruction of the catholic church is not a part of any masonic platform, unless you subsribe to conspiracy theorist. and the catholic church has done some pretty crumby things over the year. Namely: the crusades and the spanish inqusition. If anything the catholic church has persecuted the masons. Masons were killed in italy under mousalini by the direction of the catholic church.

The Masons also took over the governments of France and Portugal in 1877 and 1910 respectively and openly persecuted Catholics. Contempt for the papacy is a hallmark of Freemasonry.

Freemasons are required to swear an oath to a quasi-religious organization, something utterly incompatible with one's allegience to the Catholic Church. Whatever Masons you know, they cannot be at the same time Catholic in accordance with Catholic law. Once their involvement with the Masons comes to light, they will be excommunicated.

I pray they are swiftly discovered.

Masonary is only religious in the sense that it requires a belief in a higher power to be a member and that it encourages men to live to a higher standard of virtue. The Papal decrees are nothing more than bigotry and fear of an organization that rivialed the church in power.

[Guest saintish]

if taking oaths and being indifferent to religion are grounds for excommunication perhaps the Catholic church sould excommunicate all of its members that are affiliated with the boy scouts or even all americans who pledge to the flag?

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

I'm through responding to this thread. I've made my point clear that the Catholic Church does not permit affiliation with the Freemasons and anyone who is a Freemason by definition is not Catholic. I'm sorry saintish wants to turn this into a hate thread about the Catholic Church.

Don't bother responding. This discussion is over.

[Guest saintish]

I'm not hating on the catholic church anymore than you're hating on Masons. Nothing i said about the Catholic church was false but you're spreading vicious lies about masons, that is both unfair and unchristian.

[Backroads]

this is technically true however sometimes friends will "encourage" other friends to see if they are interested in joining.

I"m pretty sure that was his situation. It was a few of his lifelong buddies.

[rufuswhitman]

LOTS of elements.

... enough to lose a copyright dispute, that's for sure.

[JohnnyRudick]

. . . If anything the catholic church has persecuted the masons. Masons were killed in italy under mousalini by the direction of the catholic church. . .

Did I read that right?

A church that has no problems with members joining the Masons

would then have the members killed?

If not true sounds like anti Catholic conspiracy stuff to me.

And if it is anti Catholic conspiracy stuff I guess it must not be true.

[gkearney]

Well I am a Freemason and I have one of these cases about which you speak. I don't have any problem with using it as a temple bag. I admit I never thought of doing so but with it's space for an apron I can see how it would be good for that.

As an aside I wear a Masonic Square and Compasses pin every Sunday to church and to the temple on my suit coat no one has ever said a word about it to me.

[livy111us]

... enough to lose a copyright dispute, that's for sure.

Many of the elements pre-date masonry to early Christianity and Judaism. So it really wouldn't be borrowing from masonry, would it?

[gkearney]

While some of the elements predate masonry they do not come together in a single codified ritual in antiquity. Given this fact we have to assume that the rituals of Freemasonry played a role in the development of the temple endowment. That said it is the rituals and not the endowment proper that share these elements.

[Backroads]

Well, no one seems to know where the Masonic temple bag is right now. My brother thought he'd attend the temple yesterday, which he hasn't done since his wedding back in September, and can't find his temple clothes. He recalls handing the temple bag to our Aspergish father on the day of the wedding...

I suppose this is a lesson in going to the temple regularly.

[JohnnyRudick]

Well, no one seems to know where the Masonic temple bag is right now. My brother thought he'd attend the temple yesterday, which he hasn't done since his wedding back in September, and can't find his temple clothes. He recalls handing the temple bag to our Aspergish father on the day of the wedding...

I suppose this is a lesson in going to the temple regularly.

Out of sight, Out of mind.

[Jamie123]

Joseph and Hiram Smith were both Freemasons. So were many other Mormon men during the Nauvoo period.

Um, no, there are no Catholic masons...

Don't be so sure of that. The United Grand Lodge of England will be quick to tell you that one of their past Grand Masters was a Roman Catholic.

You're right though - the RC church does not like its members to be Masons. I've read that a priest will refuse to give communion to a Mason until he resigns from the Order.

The Anglican Church is less strongly anti-Masonic. There are many Anglican priests (and even bishops) who are Masons. Archbishop Fisher, who crowned the current queen, was a Freemason.

However, the current Archbishop of Canterbury (Rowan Williams) does not like Freemasonry. A while ago he stated his policy of barring any priest who was a Mason from any top position in the Church, but the uproar that followed caused him to back down from this.

[Jamie123]

this is technically true however sometimes friends will "encourage" other friends to see if they are interested in joining.

LOL yes - if they want a particular person to join, what they'll say is "Please will you do me a favour, and ask me if you can join the Masons?"