Non Believing Spouse

[steflou]

My husband and I were both baptized 17 years ago. We have 3 sons 9(17, 10, and 4). I am active but he never has been. He recently told me that he no longer believes in the church and that I have been brainwashed. He thinks that with my focusing on eternity and his focusing on "today" that we are no longer compatible in marriage. We were the only members on both sides of the family and I'm feeling like I am being ganged up on as far as support. I am at a loss on what to do. Is there a way to be true to the gospel without the contention in the home that is there now. Any advice will be appreciated.

[Bob_oz]

That is a long period of inactivity for him and whatever his reason he is unlikely to remember the feeling of the Spirit from then.

How do your boys feel about Church?

This question is for you to answer, not to tell us, are there other issues in your relationship that put the marriage at risk? How well do you talk together, how well do you handle family challenges, financial, children, work, personal husband/wife relations (sex) etc - again this is for you to consider/know not us.

If there are issues other than Church it may be that Church is catching the brunt of things which if you are living the Gospel will not be right as we both know that gospel teachings enhance our family relations.

If there are other issues counselling may be a consideration, choice of a counsellor is critical so take the time to sound them out first, some have some very poor ideas for a Christian/LDS.

Prayer, comes highly recommended, add fasting and a lot of pondering the scriptures and listening to the Spirit.

Talk to your Bishop, get a blessing also.

Find the time to sit down alone with your husband and discuss your relationship, your children, your plans, dreams, hopes and make notes and yes include personal physical relations (the s word again). Discuss where you want to be in 5, 10, 20 years time and what is not happening that you want to do now. It is not the best time to tell him to get is act together so he can take you to the temple! Just focus on the immediate needs.

You note that I say "you" as in both but at the same time focus on letting him express his desires.

Find quality time together, it may not be often but it needs to be quality, it may only be short.

I feel that all of these communication is the critical element.

Remember that you are never alone.

Bob

[steflou]

You have hit the nail on the head. There are other issues involved. Of my 3 sons the oldest has moved out of the house and will have nothing to do with the church although he attended on Mother's Day. The other boys love going to church and the 10 year old has hopes of being a missionary. I am afraid that the longer they are around the negative views of their dad the more negative their views of church will be. I want to be able to strengthen their belief without making it an issue between my husband and I. I don't want religion to come down to choosing which parent to love.

Thankfully, I do have very strong support through the people in my ward and am planning on having a blessing today.

[boyando]

I'm afraid all I can give you is my love and my prayers.

My father was not a good man. Untill I was thirteen, he was not a member of the Church and would repeat some of the same things your husband would say. When I was thirteen, he did have a spiritual experience and joinded the Church. Before that he drank all the time. Because of his work he travelled around town, past the bars. Before long, the "one drink that won't hurt you" became two, then three and so on untill everything that was good became dark again.

The beer wasn't the problem. It only made things worse. I saw the pains my mother went through and I don't wish them on you. Just remeber that your Heavenly father knows your pain and will hold you in his arms, untill this storm has pasted. You have my love - Allmosthumble

[sgallan]

Almost Humble -

You just made the leap from problems in a marraige, and a guy who doesn't believe in a religion (and seems to want to be a bit of a jerk about it) to..... because he doesn't believe in religion he must therefore be an bad person by virtual of being a non-beleiver, because your dad was dysfunctional, until he turned it around by becoming a believer.

Well let me counter with a story of a non-believer who became a single dad, by having his meth head wife (a god believer) arrested and booted, and who also spends viritually all of his time with either kids, with one of his jobs educating inmates so they don't do the revolving door thing.

Let me also add another (jerk) story about the brother of this same man, who married a woman, took in her and her five kids, added on to his house for her. Then as a result of the marraige (not breaking the celibacy thing and all of that) she became active again in her faith (your faith), and no longer saw the use in be married to him. That female version of a jerk just up and left him with no explanation.

Now do any of these stories, or the situation of the starter of this thread, mean that any one faith or belief system is all good, or all bad. Not at all. They are individual situations and life drama's.

I am afraid that the longer they are around the negative views of their dad the more negative their views of church will be.

Steflou -

First, let me say that - having been through an awful late of late - I feel badly for your marital situation. It sounds like your husband is being a jerk.

Having qualified let me add my views on the above sentence of yours. As a non-believer and non-religious person I am raising my child in a secular way. I am doing so in a majority Christian society. I would prefer she be a non-believer, perhaps a diest, or maybe one of the Eastern religions. But something I clearly understand is she will be influenced by more than just me. And she will make her own choices along these lines - even with my perhaps negative views of things religious. Even at age ten she is free to attend the church of her choice, or not to attend at all.

Part of me being a parent is to educate and raise my child the best I can but still allow her to decide her own path in such things.

Just my .02 cents. :)

[Bob_oz]

Hi Steflou,

Well that is good news that you have sound support and staying strong, your example of true values, love, understanding, concern and compassion will go a lot further to reaching your husbands heart than any discussion on right and wrong.

The thing now is to build communication between the two of you and it appears from what you have said that its going to fall to you to encourage such communication.

Frankly I would think he has other concerns than just the Church, I imagine he is not really a jerk and that there are other issues to be discussed, firstly from his side so you know the whole picture, do you feel this open and frank discussion is possible?

It seems that your children are pretty normal, at 17 he wants to spread his wings and what ever he does now is his choice, again consistant example is your tool and faith that he will be ok, in the end he is accountable for his own actions and that is how it should be, but he is not the issue is he.

The relationship is the issue and you have some deep inner searching to do as to your future and the future of the relationship, whatever you decided should only come after talking with him calmly with a prayer in your heart for guidence, there are miracles happening all the time so if there is still room don't give you.

Again, obtain good counsel you can trust, your Bishop would be my first choice, beware of do-gooders no matter how well meaning.

All the very best

Bob

[boyando]

Almost Humble -

You just made the leap from problems in a marraige, and a guy who doesn't believe in a religion (and seems to want to be a bit of a jerk about it) to..... because he doesn't believe in religion he must therefore be an bad person by virtual of being a non-beleiver, because your dad was dysfunctional, until he turned it around by becoming a believer.

Well let me counter with a story of a non-believer who became a single dad, by having his meth head wife (a god believer) arrested and booted, and who also spends viritually all of his time with either kids, with one of his jobs educating inmates so they don't do the revolving door thing.

Let me also add another (jerk) story about the brother of this same man, who married a woman, took in her and her five kids, added on to his house for her. Then as a result of the marraige (not breaking the celibacy thing and all of that) she became active again in her faith (your faith), and no longer saw the use in be married to him. That female version of a jerk just up and left him with no explanation.

Now do any of these stories, or the situation of the starter of this thread, mean that any one faith or belief system is all good, or all bad. Not at all. They are individual situations and life drama's.

I am afraid that the longer they are around the negative views of their dad the more negative their views of church will be.

Steflou -

First, let me say that - having been through an awful late of late - I feel badly for your marital situation. It sounds like your husband is being a jerk.

Having qualified let me add my views on the above sentence of yours. As a non-believer and non-religious person I am raising my child in a secular way. I am doing so in a majority Christian society. I would prefer she be a non-believer, perhaps a diest, or maybe one of the Eastern religions. But something I clearly understand is she will be influenced by more than just me. And she will make her own choices along these lines - even with my perhaps negative views of things religious. Even at age ten she is free to attend the church of her choice, or not to attend at all.

Part of me being a parent is to educate and raise my child the best I can but still allow her to decide her own path in such things.

Just my .02 cents. :)

A funny thing about relegion - everybody's got one. Could be Christian, could be Buddast, could be Diest or maybe Secularest. Everyone has something that they believe guides morals and decision making in there life's.

If I made a leap, I will say that I am sorry, to Steflou. It has been my experience that when a man or a woman say' that they don't want to believe in what they once did, it is to justify a change in behavior. It goes both ways. My sister, who is a Secularest, dropped being a Mormon because it got in the way of the party's. A good friend of mine, quit the partys to become a Mormon.

Still no man doesn't believe in something, even if it is his own brain power.

Good luck on rasing your daughter - Allmosthumble

[sgallan]

Everybody has a value system to be sure. But to suggest it is "just" brain power is a little simplistic IMO (especially since my brainpower is waning ). And I suspect you - because of some dysfunctionality in your family - seem to have a pretty one sided view of religious versus secular. Believer versus non-believer. I just (try) to look at people, not faith or labels. Some of the kindest most helpful people I know are both believers and non-believers. From a man named Mike Furches who ran an inner city church for years until it basically bankrupted him - and now he is starting up a cyber church (I am on the mailing list and it doesn't bother me in the least) still working like crazy to spread the word of God. To my dad who basically became an non-believer in Vietnam but whose value and work I mentioned on another thread.

Basically we are just people. Some good, some bad, and mostly a gazillion variations of just that. I tend to think that putting people in a good or bad box, based on just a belief system, is sort of why we are in a couple of wars right now. And why so many people seem to dislike on another. I am sometimes as guilty of this as anyone.

[shanstress70]

It has been my experience that when a man or a woman say' that they don't want to believe in what they once did, it is to justify a change in behavior. It goes both ways. My sister, who is a Secularest, dropped being a Mormon because it got in the way of the party's. A good friend of mine, quit the partys to become a Mormon.

Or, it could just be that one stops believing in what he or she once did because after reviewing one's religious beliefs, one realizes he or she was wrong in the past. It has been confirmed to me (through prayer) after reviewing my LDS beliefs that I was wrong to have been baptized in the LDS church.

Obviously others get differing confirmations when praying about the same thing. I didn't stop being LDS so that I could 'party'. I did it because I thought the church was based on foundational untruths. Although I do enjoy me some coffee these days!

[cynyclsgirl]

Or, it could just be that one stops believing in what he or she once did because after reviewing one's religious beliefs, one realizes he or she was wrong in the past. It has been confirmed to me (through prayer) after reviewing my LDS beliefs that I was wrong to have been baptized in the LDS church.

Obviously others get differing confirmations when praying about the same thing.

I didn't stop being LDS so that I could 'party'. I did it because I thought the church was based on foundational untruths

. Although I do enjoy me some coffee these days!

I have posted this comment not to long ago. that when you are Baptized into the LDS Faith, it is recorded in Heaven. and because you simply want to "dismiss" the fact that you were baptized claiming that Heavenly Father through prayer told you to leave the church is false.you will for the remainder of your life be held accountable for choosing to walk away fromt he gospel. Heavenly Father will not bring you this far to drop you on your head, if you fell on your head its because of your own doing. I dont believe that Heavenly Father would lead you to some other faith once you have been baptized into his restored gospel.

you have allowed yourself to be decieved by the prince of darkness

There is no happiness or peace of mind except through obedience to the commandments of God. There is no salvation or eternal life except through acceptance of the gospel and living according to its teachings.

The Book of Mormon teaches, “Unless a man shall endure to the end, in following the example of the Son of the living God, he cannot be saved” (2 Ne. 31:16).

The gospel will do us little good if we do not live it.

Membership in the Church will not save us unless we keep the commandments.

A half-hearted effort will not save us either. Instead, it will bring condemnation. The Lord has so declared in section 58 of the Doctrine and Covenants. (See D&C 58:29.)

One of the great prophets of ancient times was Samuel the Lamanite. I like the way he taught. He was plain and straightforward in his manner of speech. He did not mince words, nor did he leave the people wondering what he meant.

As he spoke from the walls of Zarahemla, calling the Nephites to repentance, he told them bluntly that if they refused to live the gospel condemnation would come upon them, and he made it clear that they would have no one to blame but themselves.

“Remember, remember,” he said, “that whosoever perisheth, perisheth unto himself; and whosoever doeth iniquity, doeth it unto himself.” (Hel. 14:30.)

Then he said that, since we have free agency, we can choose the good or the evil, life or death; but he declared that in the end we shall most certainly receive exactly what we ourselves have chosen.

Isn’t it time for each of us to learn the lesson of Gethsemane and say with Him: “Not my will, but thine, be done”? (Luke 22:42.)

[Jason]

I have posted this comment not to long ago. that when you are Baptized into the LDS Faith, it is recorded in Heaven. and because you simply want to "dismiss" the fact that you were baptized claiming that Heavenly Father through prayer told you to leave the church is false.you will for the remainder of your life be held accountable for choosing to walk away fromt he gospel. Heavenly Father will not bring you this far to drop you on your head, if you fell on your head its because of your own doing. I dont believe that Heavenly Father would lead you to some other faith once you have been baptized into his restored gospel.

you have allowed yourself to be decieved by the prince of darkness

There is no happiness or peace of mind except through obedience to the commandments of God. There is no salvation or eternal life except through acceptance of the gospel and living according to its teachings.

The Book of Mormon teaches, “Unless a man shall endure to the end, in following the example of the Son of the living God, he cannot be saved” (2 Ne. 31:16).

The gospel will do us little good if we do not live it.

Membership in the Church will not save us unless we keep the commandments.

A half-hearted effort will not save us either. Instead, it will bring condemnation. The Lord has so declared in section 58 of the Doctrine and Covenants. (See D&C 58:29.)

One of the great prophets of ancient times was Samuel the Lamanite. I like the way he taught. He was plain and straightforward in his manner of speech. He did not mince words, nor did he leave the people wondering what he meant.

As he spoke from the walls of Zarahemla, calling the Nephites to repentance, he told them bluntly that if they refused to live the gospel condemnation would come upon them, and he made it clear that they would have no one to blame but themselves.

“Remember, remember,” he said, “that whosoever perisheth, perisheth unto himself; and whosoever doeth iniquity, doeth it unto himself.” (Hel. 14:30.)

Then he said that, since we have free agency, we can choose the good or the evil, life or death; but he declared that in the end we shall most certainly receive exactly what we ourselves have chosen.

Isn’t it time for each of us to learn the lesson of Gethsemane and say with Him: “Not my will, but thine, be done”? (Luke 22:42.)

When I read posts like this I have to ask myself: do you respond and bring yourself down to their level, or do you just ignore it and let the message to unchallenged?

[shanstress70]

I just have to say, "Thanks for the wonderful thoughts, Cyn... whatever (it's too hard to type)."

[sgallan]

when you are Baptized into the LDS Faith, it is recorded in Heaven. and because you simply want to "dismiss" the fact that you were baptized claiming that Heavenly Father through prayer told you to leave the church is false.you will for the remainder of your life be held accountable for choosing to walk away fromt he gospel.

Well if this Heavenly Father (if somehow true) doesn't want me around because I ended up a non-believer, that works for me. I am not really all that interested in spending an eternity with such a diety. So it is a bit of a win-win situation.

you have allowed yourself to be decieved by the prince of darkness

I guess I am just a godless heathen then.

There is no happiness or peace of mind except through obedience to the commandments of God.

So the 30 hours a week I spend volunteering with kids.... I should just give it up. I should probably stop being a single dad too. Teaching inmates..... bad idea. Aw what the heck..... I might as well get in my car and drive off a cliff.

Or maybe not.

There is no salvation or eternal life except through acceptance of the gospel and living according to its teachings.

Good - I didn't want to live for every anyhow.

A half-hearted effort will not save us either. Instead, it will bring condemnation. The Lord has so declared in section 58 of the Doctrine and Covenants. (See D&C 58:29.)

I sure hope so. Otherwise I might have to spend an eternity with a certain pharisee.

[CaptainTux]

Truth without love or compassion is not truth when one is trying to explain the author of love....it is thinly veiled insecurity.

Steflou, IMHO bob_oz gave you the best advice. There is nothing I could hope to add to his comments.

It is my hope and prayer that you two are able to keep your marriage.

I am, for the first time in years, trying to take the role of spiritual leader in my home and my wife is watching with suspicion. I have years of broken promises to overcome and her reservation is understandable. The only reason I bring up me is that people can grow, men can learn, we want to be good husbands and good fathers. I am sure just as you are struggling for resolutions to this mess, he is as well.

You and your family are in my thoughts and prayers.

[Guest Monica]

What is it that he doesnt agree with you on?

Is it LDS?

Is it bible?

Is it Jesus?

What does he believe in spiritually?

[Bob_oz]

Some times I think we need to consider the reason a member starts a thread and try to restrain our human desires to stand on the high ground launching personal anti-non-LDS or anti-LDS rhetoric. Its not a Christlike attribute and far from the purpose of this group.

I have to say for myself that too often we do not demonstrate the principle of love one to another (including me).

If you follow the posts you will see that "Church" is not the only issue this couple have and attacking one anothers beliefs/conduct does little to help our sister.

I will now relinquish the high ground as I am sure some feel I need a mirror. (sorry mine are all cracked!)

With love

Bob

[StrawberryFields]

Some times I think we need to consider the reason a member starts a thread and try to restrain our human desires to stand on the high ground launching personal anti-non-LDS or anti-LDS rhetoric. Its not a Christlike attribute and far from the purpose of this group.

I have to say for myself that too often we do not demonstrate the principle of love one to another (including me).

If you follow the posts you will see that "Church" is not the only issue this couple have and attacking one anothers beliefs/conduct does little to help our sister.

I will now relinquish the high ground as I am sure some feel I need a mirror. (sorry mine are all cracked!)

With love

Bob

Well said. :)

[Laureltree]

Almost Humble -

You just made the leap from problems in a marraige, and a guy who doesn't believe in a religion (and seems to want to be a bit of a jerk about it) to..... because he doesn't believe in religion he must therefore be an bad person by virtual of being a non-beleiver, because your dad was dysfunctional, until he turned it around by becoming a believer.

Well let me counter with a story of a non-believer who became a single dad, by having his meth head wife (a god believer) arrested and booted, and who also spends viritually all of his time with either kids, with one of his jobs educating inmates so they don't do the revolving door thing.

Let me also add another (jerk) story about the brother of this same man, who married a woman, took in her and her five kids, added on to his house for her. Then as a result of the marraige (not breaking the celibacy thing and all of that) she became active again in her faith (your faith), and no longer saw the use in be married to him. That female version of a jerk just up and left him with no explanation.

Now do any of these stories, or the situation of the starter of this thread, mean that any one faith or belief system is all good, or all bad. Not at all. They are individual situations and life drama's.

I am afraid that the longer they are around the negative views of their dad the more negative their views of church will be.

Steflou -

First, let me say that - having been through an awful late of late - I feel badly for your marital situation. It sounds like your husband is being a jerk.

Having qualified let me add my views on the above sentence of yours. As a non-believer and non-religious person I am raising my child in a secular way. I am doing so in a majority Christian society. I would prefer she be a non-believer, perhaps a diest, or maybe one of the Eastern religions. But something I clearly understand is she will be influenced by more than just me. And she will make her own choices along these lines - even with my perhaps negative views of things religious. Even at age ten she is free to attend the church of her choice, or not to attend at all.

Part of me being a parent is to educate and raise my child the best I can but still allow her to decide her own path in such things.

Just my .02 cents. :)

Sgallion,

you have a very clear point, its not about religion, there has to be more to it than that...not just that alone..

Laureltree

besides...sgallion, I think you make an awesome dad ! any new tropheys?

[sgallan]

Been a good year..... two national titles against girls, another state title against the boys and another one against girls. We are leaving for Oregon tomoorrow early for Western Regionals against the boys. It is the second largest kids tournament held in the nation. Reni got hurt last year but placed the year before. No givens though as this is one tough tournament with about half of the toughest boys in her class in the country being there. After the wrestling we are going to Crater Lake and Redwoods National Parks.

Here is a recent picture from a the USA's national web site (Reni is in black).....

http://www.themat.com/specialevents/2006/bodybar/default.php

Okay it didn't go to the picture. Reni is in the Saturday photo's, on the left hand side, second picture from the bottom - it takes about 15 seconds to load all the pictures.

[steflou]

I have received some good advice in some of the above postings. There seems to be some controversy on whether my husband is a "jerk" because he has walked away from the church. Not being active in the LDS faith or any faith for that matter does change the value system of a man which makes for a difficult situation in a marriage. It can cause situations where he would be considered a "jerk". Language used is coarser, opinions on respecting a woman are very secular, and other values are viewed as not necessary in his world. I want my children raised without watching shows such as South Park, rated R movies that are full of gratuitous sex, naked pinup girls on toolboxes. . I'm not to the point that I don't allow R movies at all although I should. But the point is we have different values. My next question is how do you "invite the Spirit" into your home if there is only 1 adult believer? It is a very heavy burden to bear. I do realize that my children will choose their own path in life but I do believe it is my responsibility to teach them the truth as I know it.

[StrawberryFields]

My best advice for something like this is to set a good example. I believe that in the end children (well most) learn what they live. Your children will pick up a lot from you just by your demeanor. Most often it is the over all feeling that a mother carries with her that will hold lasting impressions. Make your home a safe haven. Be the one who teaches your children the important things that will affect their life.Talk with your husband to see how he would like the children to grow up and how he feels is the best way to get them there.Just because he is a non believer doesn't mean that he doesn't want the best for his children does it?

[shanstress70]

I have received some good advice in some of the above postings. There seems to be some controversy on whether my husband is a "jerk" because he has walked away from the church. Not being active in the LDS faith or any faith for that matter does change the value system of a man which makes for a difficult situation in a marriage. It can cause situations where he would be considered a "jerk". Language used is coarser, opinions on respecting a woman are very secular, and other values are viewed as not necessary in his world. I want my children raised without watching shows such as South Park, rated R movies that are full of gratuitous sex, naked pinup girls on toolboxes. . I'm not to the point that I don't allow R movies at all although I should. But the point is we have different values. My next question is how do you "invite the Spirit" into your home if there is only 1 adult believer? It is a very heavy burden to bear. I do realize that my children will choose their own path in life but I do believe it is my responsibility to teach them the truth as I know it.

I'm going to play Dr. Laura (who sometimes I can't stand and sometimes makes a lot of sense) for a minute, and ask you why you married him in the first place.

I'm not sure I understand this correctly, but from the way I'm reading it you're saying that his leaving 'the church' did not cause his already poor value system. This means that he had this value system when you married him? If I'm misunderstanding you, please correct me.