Are Mormons Christians?

[Winnie G]

It is not to often the news media deserves a pat on the back but this one does.

I’m so sick of the whole are you a Christian question. I think he answered it with knowledge not just “well they say no”

I have a family full of Born again’s that see me as going to hell but they were shocked when a aunt insisted I say the blessing at the last family reunion. Since then their attitudes have changed. My grate grate aunt (still alive) came to me and said she was so happy that I said the blessing that she now knows I’m a Christian. Her two son-inlaws both evangelical pastors looked dumb founded when I said Amen and I looked up.

Like a tank full of Guppies.

I think we should write the author and say “THANK YOU”!

http://www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/...6260313/-1/NEWS

Q: I read your recent column on whether or not Catholics are Christians. You said that "every person who believes Jesus was the Christ, the Messiah, the Son of God, sent to earth to die for our sins and then to be raised from the dead on the third day is a Christian." As a Catholic living in Salt Lake City, Utah, I have a follow-up question: Mormons generally believe these things I think but are they Christian?

Since moving to Utah half a decade ago, I've come to the conclusion that Mormons should not be considered Christian, much in the same way that I cannot be considered Jewish. Even though I follow the teachings of the first five books of the Bible, which I understand to be the basic elements of the Torah, my additional belief in the New Testament and the modification of the practice of my faith as a result of that belief means I am not Jewish, but instead, Christian.

By the same token, even though Mormons believe in the New Testament and Gospels, doesn't their additional belief in the Book of Mormon and the resulting modification of the practice of their faith make them something other than Christians?

-- C., Salt Lake City, Utah

A: You are not Jewish because. you are not Jewish! Now, as for Mormons, they are Christians, and wonderful Christians at that. The "extra" beliefs of different Christian denominations like the belief of Catholics in papal infallibility do not in any way alter the core affirmation of the divinity and atoning power of Jesus as the Christ.

The charge that Mormons are not Christians is part of a long and disgusting pattern of anti-Mormon slander. There are, to be sure, religions that do test the limits of who is a Christian. Unitarians, for example, reject the Trinity thus the name Unitarian and believe that Jesus was just a man. Some Unitarians call themselves Christians, while others do not.

We generally have no problem with whatever people say they are, as long as what they believe is also what their religion believes. Messianic Jews, for example, who believe that Jesus is the Christ may be Jewish in the technical sense that they were born of a Jewish mother, but by their belief they are not Jews at all, but believing Christians.

Send QUESTIONS ONLY to The God Squad, Telecare, 1200 Glenn Curtiss Blvd., Uniondale, NY 11553; post them on the God Squad Web site: www.askthegodsquad.com; or email them to: [email protected].

[prisonchaplain]

This question of who gets to be called what is a little more complicated than the cited article suggests. For example, to be Jewish is a question of bloodline and faith. So, if a Messianic Jew believes the Old Testament AND the New Testament, does that mean s/he is no longer "of the Jewish faith?" Yes, Christian beliefs are there--but so are Jewish ones. Who gets to decide? The Orthodox answer is--the rabbis. In fact their Talmud is a collection of rabbinic writings, including the declaration that Jesus is a false messiah. However, who made the rabbis the final arbitors of what constitutes the Jewish faith?

IMHO the dilemma of Messianic Jews is very similar to that of Mormons. Both groups have minority beliefs within a religious tradition they claim to belong to, yet both insist that the alleged authorities (be it 'historic Christian tradition' or 'rabbinic tradition' cannot authoritatively say who belongs and who doesn't.

I'm also wondering, in the case of Christians, how to discern between contending for the true faith and watching out for 'heresy' blends with Jesus' admonition that if they're not against us, they're for us...leave them alone (speaking of those who followed another group preaching Jesus)?

Thorny stuff. Especially sticky when family members fall on both sides of the fence.

[Ray]

I think it helps to first define what a person means when using a word or term or name before determining whether or not a person can actually be called by that word or term or name.

For instance, I would define a “Jew” as any person who belongs to the tribe or kingdom of Judah, which includes not only people who are literal descendants of Judah, but anyone given citizenship status in his tribe or kingdom by conforming to his laws and being admitted by an authorized representative.

And I would define a “Christian” as any person who belongs to the tribe or kingdom of Christ, which includes not only people who are literal descendants of Christ, by being born again through Him through His blood, but anyone given citizenship status in his tribe or kingdom by conforming to his laws and being admitted by an authorized representative.

From there it’s simply a matter of determining what those laws really are and who are really the authorized representatives.

[prisonchaplain]

From there it’s <strike>simply</strike> a matter of determining what those laws really are and who are really the authorized representatives.

Now I can say I pretty much agree. B)

[Ray]

Heh, I use that word a lot of times to mean "to put it simply".

But it is also simple, or easy, to know what is true when you know what to do to find out... because God makes it very easy to know what is true by simply giving you (and us and me) His assurance. :)

[CaptainTux]

I know my answer may sound trite, but there are so many things to me that are unclear in the scriptures.

Who is written the book of Life? Who is truly covered by the blood and washed clean to sit in the presence of the most Holy? Where do our acts counter and negate the grace given to us?

I do not know. Anyone who claims to know is either a liar or a fool.

The best I or any of us can do is to accept the sacrifice of Jesus, read and pray and meditate, and spread the Good News as commanded in the Great Commission.

The questions is not weather Catholics or Mormons or Baptists or Messianic Jews are Christians. No where in the Bible do I hear Jesus refer to the term Christian. The proper question is am I saved by the blood? Is Bill or Sally or my mom or my daughter or my neighbor saved by the blood. Who can answer that?

From my understanding of scripture and my devout and genuine love for and humility towards God, I am secure. I feel pretty darn sure about others around me, but only God knows their hearts.

I have always been of the mind that if you say you are secure because you were confirmed, baptized, circumcised, or filled out a card in a building..you are not only myopic, but have reduced the Creator of all that we know to a genie in a bottle that if you rub just right, you get what you want. Godinabox....the great new toy from Milton Bradley! Don't work.

[Ray]

Q: Who is written the book of Life?

A: Everyone’s name is written there until they do something to have it removed.

Q: Who is truly covered by the blood and washed clean to sit in the presence of the most Holy?

A: Whoever does the will of our Father in heaven as our Lord tells us all we should do.

Q: Where do our acts counter and negate the grace given to us?

A: At the point we no longer Repent, and we then do our will, if our will is not what we should do.

I do not know. Anyone who claims to know is either a liar or a fool.

I will forgive you and forget that you ever said that. Some people do know some things you don’t know.

The best I or any of us can do is to accept the sacrifice of Jesus…

… by accepting Jesus Christ as yours and mine or our Lord…

… read and pray and meditate…

… to truly get our own assurance of the truth from God in heaven…

… and spread the Good News as commanded in the Great Commission.

by making sure we spread only the truth.

The questions is not weather Catholics or Mormons or Baptists or Messianic Jews are Christians. Nowhere in the Bible do I hear Jesus refer to the term Christian. The proper question is: Am I saved by the blood of Jesus Christ? Is Bill or Sally or my mom or my daughter or my neighbor saved by the blood of Jesus Christ who died for us. Who can answer that?

Anyone who knows enough to know and really do what our Lord and Father in heaven expect us to do.

From my understanding of scripture and my devout and genuine love for and humility towards God, I am secure. I feel pretty darn sure about others around me, but only God knows their hearts.

But by our fruit we can know each other if we truly can see what you and I and all of us really do.

I have always been of the mind that if you say you are secure because you were confirmed, baptized, circumcised, or filled out a card in a building..you are not only myopic, but have reduced the Creator of all that we know to a genie in a bottle that if you rub just right, you get what you want. Godinabox....the great new toy from Milton Bradley! Don't work.

If you truly know what God wants us all to really do, and you do those things He expects you to do, you can then say you’ve done all you know you should do, and He will then say “Well done” just for you.

:)

[Winnie G]

I think it is spelled out in few words.

I believe in Christ the son of God.

He died for my sins and the sins of the world.

He is my savor.

Through him, I will have eternal life.

That makes a Christian.

Add man and you get organized religion.

[Dr T]

Hello Ray,

In post #7 you said

...grace given to us

. What is the "grace" of which you speak?

Thanks

[LionHeart]

Q: Who is written the book of Life?

A: Everyone's name is written there until they do something to have it removed.

Actually, you can find the answer to this question in section 85 of the D&C. This is also confirmed in The Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. At least the original mormon answer to it anyway. For anyone who wants to look it up.

[Guest Monica]

Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Jhn 5:34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.

Jhn 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

1Cr 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Tts 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Definition of christian in scriptures.

[Dror]

The other day I was feeling exasperated with the whole "Are Mormons Christians" question, and fantasized about adopting a more in-your-face approach. Imagine, if you will, a t-shirt that reads on the front, "Are Mormons Christians?" and on the back "Of course. Duh!" Somehow I doubt the Church leaders would approve, though. :)

[prisonchaplain]

The other day I was feeling exasperated with the whole "Are Mormons Christians" question, and fantasized about adopting a more in-your-face approach. Imagine, if you will, a t-shirt that reads on the front, "Are Mormons Christians?" and on the back "Of course. Duh!" Somehow I doubt the Church leaders would approve, though. :)

I guess that fits right in with the new evangelical t-shirt that's out there (or will be after someone reads this post):

Front: What do I think of the new Tom Hanks flick?

Back: YOu REALLY want to know what I think of the DUH-Vinci Code???

[CaptainTux]

I am actually glad that movie came out. I can finally watch Dogma in peace.

I know that my friends here of various denomination will disagree with me, but salvation is not dependent on affiliation of flavor. But rather your relationship with Christ. A good Mormon and a good catholic and a good baptist may not have accepted Jesus. The you could have some guy in prison that has killed a bunch of people and does not have the denominational variety we have and is still a devout believer with full acceptance.

I am sure PC can correct me..perhaps there is denominational variety in prison.

[prisonchaplain]

I am actually glad that movie came out. I can finally watch Dogma in peace.

I know that my friends here of various denomination will disagree with me, but salvation is not dependent on affiliation of flavor. But rather your relationship with Christ. A good Mormon and a good catholic and a good baptist may not have accepted Jesus. The you could have some guy in prison that has killed a bunch of people and does not have the denominational variety we have and is still a devout believer with full acceptance.

I am sure PC can correct me..perhaps there is denominational variety in prison.

Sounds like a good new string...I'll get working on it. Ah well...it probably fits on this string.

Within most corrections systems inmates are asked to identify their "religious preference," so that the system can facilitate their practice. There is no "Christian" preference. Rather you have as follows:

Catholic

Protestant

Messianic/Sabbatarian

Church of Christ

Mormon

Jehovah

I might have missed one or two. So, what does a Baptist do? They insist they are not "Protestant." Most often, I recommend a default of Protestant, since it generally covers most Christians who are not Catholic.

Ah, but what about Messianic/Sabbatarians: Their religious needs would not be met by a general Christian service that took place on Sunday.

Church of Christ: The use of mechanical instruments would prove to religiously offensive, so their needs would not be met.

Any thoughts as to why Mormons would not have their needs for worship met in a general Christian service? Do the answers perhaps help us understand why the "Are Mormons Christians?" question persists?

[Dr T]

Thanks PC,

For the LDS among us, of that list would you say that all of them are Christian? Why or why not?

[Ray]

Hello Ray,

In post #7 you said

...grace given to us

. What is the "grace" of which you speak?

Thanks

Actually, it went more like this:

CaptainTux asked a question:

Q: Where do our acts counter and negate the grace given to us?

And I responded by saying:

A: At the point we no longer Repent, and we then do our will, if our will is not what we should do.

...understanding that the "grace" of God was manifest by God sending a Christ, who we now know as Jesus Christ, to redeem us from our fallen condition, to offer what we now know as the gospel of Jesus Christ or the plan of salvation, which has certain conditions we must follow if we want to be saved from our fallen condition, and become just as perfect as God is.

And the conditions are these:

Believe in the person we now know as Jesus Christ... meaning truly accept Him as your Savior and Lord.

Repent (or turn away) from all you know is sin, and keep repenting until you no longer sin or even want to.

Be baptized by immersion, to fulfil God's commandment, by someone who has our Lord's authority to baptize you. And to signify that you are living not what is your will, but the will of our Father in heaven.

Receive the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands also by someone who has our Lord's authority to do that. And then obey all of God's commandments, as God continues to teach you, through the power and inspiration of the Holy Ghost, and as you are taught by our Lord's authorized servants on Earth.

And by doing all that, His "grace" is sufficient to forgive all of our sins as if we had never sinned.

But if we don't Repent, or if we stop Repenting, or if we don't obey what we know is God's will or God's commandments, we will then be judged for those works, and all of those works, instead of receiving total mercy through the atonement of Jesus Christ.

And I know, some people think all they have to do is believe Jesus is the one who came to save us from our sins, but without obeying Him we will only receive justice for those sins. So for those who want total mercy, through the grace of God, we must accept and obey ALL the laws and ordinances of the gospel, and the atonement that is now offered by Jesus Christ.

The word "atonement" actually refers to the state of being "at one" with God, and we can't be one with Him if we are rebellious to His commandments, and refusing to Repent is the number one sin which will keep us from becoming perfect just as God is and always has been - the elite pinnacle of perfection for all of Man.

[Dr T]

Thanks for the time you put into your posts Ray. In the above post you said, "God is perfect and has always been perfect." How can that be if there had to be a progression in you beliefs?

THanks

[Deazone]

Earlier today I had told someone that LDS were Christian, she replied:

"I grew up in SW Idaho, second only to Utah in Mormon population, so I do know a thing or two about the religion. I was a Baptist at the time and one of less than a few dozen kids in my high school of 600 who were not Mormons. And they did NOT want to be called "Christians", because that label belonged to apostates and as such was not fitting for the true religion. It's only been in more recent years that I've seen Mormons want to be called Christians. Not making any judgment on this either way, but I've found it quite interesting. I've wondered what changed."

So now I am confused, Were LDS were instructed to state we are not Christians? If so when were we told to state such a thing and why? I am new to the Church and had always assumed (and now know) Mormon = Christian, and can not understand why a Mormon would deny being called a Christian to this person. I think she might be embellishing her story a bit.

Thanks

[dowi1]

It all begs the question, at least from my perspective: Are Christians christian? The doctrinal debates will continue ad nauseam. We can profess to believe any and every thing, because we want to...belong? But, in truth, it's our actions and our intentions that define who we are and what we "believe."

The addition of ordinances and priesthood authority by Joseph Smith is the major distinction between Mormons and the rest of protestantism. And even that authority, or the power pertaining to that authority, is based on actions and intentions (D&C 121).