The Worst Thing About Being Homosexual

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by porterrockwell@Mar 3 2004, 09:48 PM

I didn't want to bring this up,

Then why did you?

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Ray@Mar 4 2004, 07:51 AM

And for those of you who still don't realize it, homosexuality is wrong.

Thank you for clarifying that.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Ray@Mar 3 2004, 05:32 PM

Btw, I also know that there are some people in this world who are same sex attracted. You just didn’t know that I know that.

Geez Ray, listen to yourself! If you KNOW that (and I never claimed to know it, just to believe it), then why would you go on and on about the superiority of being "opposite sex attracted?" If they are that way by nature, do you think that they are just going to suddenly become attracted to the opposite sex because it's a better way to live? Maybe you should encourage them to live a celibate life as that is surely the best they can do, but there is no way, NO way their basic biology is going to change.

[sgallan]

**** People who don't know that God is worthy of our worship just don't know God. There are a slew of misunderstandings out there. ****

Could be. But if I am to take some of the definitions of God I hear from the various folk with fundamentalist like attitudes; you guys are do a really lousy job describing or selling God. Because there is little I see - from your descriptions - to worship.

**** I also want to bring out the point that no matter how many other good things people do, if people do something wrong, it is still wrong. And for those of you who still don't realize it, homosexuality is wrong. *****

Aside from the religious thing..... why?

[Ray]

I have already shown 3 disadvantages to being homosexual.

Can anyone provide 3 advantages to being homosexual? How about 1?

An increased wardrobe might be 1 advantage, IF your partner’s body happens to be the same size as yours, but members of the opposite sex can wear the same clothes too if their bodies happen to be the same size, so I don’t see that as being an advantage.

I challenge anyone to provide 1 real advantage gained merely by being homosexual that is totally distinct from any advantage you can gain by merely being heterosexual. You can either think in terms of being single, or having a partner. Any takers?

[Tr2]

Well, good, because with that attitude and that decision, you won't ever dwell with God

Now there it is!!!

Translation: "If you don't believe what we believe, then to hell with you"

This statement coming from the mouth of somebody who claims to be part of Christ's only true church. The more I stay here the more I see the true hearts of the LDS members. How do you say something like that and then try and claim to be a follower of Jesus? Where did Jesus ever advocate something like that. "Good, you will never dwell with God". If this is what the true church teaches, I'll stick with my false church. If that is what God wants people to say, I'm going to go stand beside sgallan.

[sgallan]

Can anyone provide 3 advantages to being homosexual? How about 1? *****

Easy one. Well given I have Gay family, this is what they have...... how about living a life with a person who you are attracted too. Sharing a house, a business, vacations, the good, the bad. Of being family. Sharing good times with other family. Sex and bonding with someone you love. Huddling and cuddling with the same. All the little things which make a relationship with somebody you are intimately attracted too so wonderful. Something homosexuals can only get in that special way with someone they are attracted too - someone of the same sex. And much like I could never have that attraction to a male. The can only have that attraction with someone of the same sex. This all sounds pretty advantages to me.

[sgallan]

Of course Ray, maybe you've never had such a close and truly bonding relationship like this? If so, perhaps you wouldn't understand.

[sgallan]

Ray -

What is the advantage of a heterosexual relationship save biological babies and the religious thing.

And Gays can adopt or surrogate which means they DO have kids. Kids is a lot more than biology. It is about raising, loving, and developing them. Heck, I could be part of a baby tommorrow and then never even know.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Ray@Mar 4 2004, 09:38 AM

I have already shown 3 disadvantages to being homosexual.

Can anyone provide 3 advantages to being homosexual? How about 1?

An increased wardrobe might be 1 advantage, IF your partner’s body happens to be the same size as yours, but members of the opposite sex can wear the same clothes too if their bodies happen to be the same size, so I don’t see that as being an advantage.

I challenge anyone to provide 1 real advantage gained merely by being homosexual that is totally distinct from any advantage you can gain by merely being heterosexual. You can either think in terms of being single, or having a partner. Any takers?

Ray, you are KILLING me! (maybe that's your intention :) ) Are you talking about BEING homosexual or being a heterosexual living a homosexual lifestyle by choice? Maybe I'm misunderstanding your posts. I appreciated Laureltree's post about her mom and sister. In her inner circle are people she knows intimately who are purposely living a homosexual lifestyle because of experiences they've had that have shaped their sexual preference. Because these are the people she knows who are gay, it is her perception that people are gay by choice. I agree that that is the case with most gay Americans. Because of my experiences with the gay people in MY inner circle, and scientific findings, I also believe that it is an inborn sexual orientation in SOME situations. These are the people I consider TRUE homosexuals. To those people who wish to embrace biblical values, celibacy is the only option. They can't simply become heterosexual. There don't have to be an advantages because it's simply who they are.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by sgallan@Mar 4 2004, 05:31 AM

So indeed, you may as well live it up now...because this short little life will soon be over and well....you do know the rest of the story. *****

Yeah, the atoms which make me up will wander on off for eternity. As many already have through out my existance. And you can't prove otherwise.

Otherwise, if by some chance it were like you said (and I can't prove otherwise), give me one of those lower kingdoms. Much like the Islamic God, and the fundamentalist Christian God, this one doesn't really seem to like very many of his kids. Just another brutal diety who will discard most of his children..... but he loves you. Odd though, because a long time ago now I actually converted to this religion because I thought perhaps you had a more rationale, and yes perhaps even loving version of God. While I never really believed (I tried really hard though), it still seemed logical enough at first. But in the end it was just another vicious God (defintion). I was rather disappointed. Really.

Well there is a lot more to the story and you will have to wait to find that part out...but it is not what you think....

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Rodney@Mar 4 2004, 08:02 AM

Scary, isn't it? How fast things seem to be changing--social change is always the scariest. Especially, when you've gotten so comfortable in your own little niche--when you figure YOU are living the way life was meant to be lived and anybody else who thinks otherwise is just plain wrong--sinfully wrong!! Ten years from now, many will be wondering what all the uproar was about--though I must admit, I DO faintly remember that old KSL radio sports announcer (James, was it?) screaming that a Molotov cocktail had been thrown onto the University of Wyoming basketball court...

The world is definitely spinning out of control at an amazing rate...but we were promise that it would be cut short or all the people would be destroyed...interestingly...I have to believe that more now than ever.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Tr2@Mar 4 2004, 08:42 AM

A "practicing" homosexual cannot be baptized into the one true church without forsaking his existing lifestyle. So you are right, you will not find a homosexual worthy(morally) to be a part of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

So you want to merely change the behavior? All you want is for the apperance to be cleaned up. It is all about image to you and your church. When people, not an image, become your priority then I will consider mormonism to be a good thing. It's too bad that Jesus extended His hand to sinners, but LDS won't unless specific conditions are met. Some "true" church.

Nonetheless, that does not mean that I don't love everyone that struggles with this devlish temptation.

It's obvious that you don't have the first clue to homosexuality. All it is, is a sin to you.

I only wish to see them return to their Heavenly Father having been obedient to his will and having concquered that which enslaved them and prevented them from living worthily.

Again, it's a performance/apperance-only thing with you.

Actually it's neither, it's called worthiness and obedience

The bible teaches you get your worthiness from your identity in Christ.

I guess you're all about the self effort. From your post I failed to see how Christ is at all important in your life. Your values are putting on a good show so you will be considered worthy. How can somebody claim to know Christ and still have that attitude?

Obedience....darlin' is the path to Christ....without it...you don't get to Christ. You can't just do anything imoral and still claim you know Christ...

Can the thistle bring forth good fruit? Can a sheep in wolves clothing fool God?

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Peace@Mar 4 2004, 11:24 AM

You can't just do anything imoral and still claim you know Christ...

Can the thistle bring forth good fruit? Can a sheep in wolves clothing fool God?

We all sin and do "immoral" things on a daily basis. Anyone who thinks they don't is lying to themselves.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by sgallan@Mar 4 2004, 10:10 AM

Can anyone provide 3 advantages to being homosexual? How about 1? *****

Easy one. Well given I have Gay family, this is what they have...... how about living a life with a person who you are attracted too. Sharing a house, a business, vacations, the good, the bad. Of being family. Sharing good times with other family. Sex and bonding with someone you love. Huddling and cuddling with the same. All the little things which make a relationship with somebody you are intimately attracted too so wonderful. Something homosexuals can only get in that special way with someone they are attracted too - someone of the same sex. And much like I could never have that attraction to a male. The can only have that attraction with someone of the same sex. This all sounds pretty advantages to me.

You have been fooled by the lie...but you aren't the only one.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by curvette+Mar 4 2004, 11:26 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Mar 4 2004, 11:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Peace@Mar 4 2004, 11:24 AM

You can't just do anything imoral and still claim you know Christ...

Can the thistle bring forth good fruit? Can a sheep in wolves clothing fool God?

We all sin and do "immoral" things on a daily basis. Anyone who thinks they don't is lying to themselves.

Oh my gosh...do you know what 'imoral' means? I wouldn't say that everyone is doing immoral things. I may be sinning as I like to say..sh....when I fall down the stairs, or cut my finger with my butcher knife...but that is hardly immoral...geeeeeze loueeeze...what are YOU doing...???

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Tr2@Mar 4 2004, 09:54 AM

Well, good, because with that attitude and that decision, you won't ever dwell with God

Now there it is!!!

Translation: "If you don't believe what we believe, then to hell with you"

This statement coming from the mouth of somebody who claims to be part of Christ's only true church. The more I stay here the more I see the true hearts of the LDS members. How do you say something like that and then try and claim to be a follower of Jesus? Where did Jesus ever advocate something like that. "Good, you will never dwell with God". If this is what the true church teaches, I'll stick with my false church. If that is what God wants people to say, I'm going to go stand beside sgallan.

What...? You believe we have to follow every wind of doctrine, or fad or perverse thing and be very accomdating to sin...to be a follower of Christ????

Whoohoo....that is news to me! LOL

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by curvette+Mar 4 2004, 10:38 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Mar 4 2004, 10:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Ray@Mar 4 2004, 09:38 AM

I have already shown 3 disadvantages to being homosexual. 

Can anyone provide 3 advantages to being homosexual?  How about 1?

An increased wardrobe might be 1 advantage, IF your partner’s body happens to be the same size as yours, but members of the opposite sex can wear the same clothes too if their bodies happen to be the same size, so I don’t see that as being an advantage.

I challenge anyone to provide 1 real advantage gained merely by being homosexual that is totally distinct from any advantage you can gain by merely being heterosexual.  You can either think in terms of being single, or having a partner.  Any takers?

Ray, you are KILLING me! (maybe that's your intention :) ) Are you talking about BEING homosexual or being a heterosexual living a homosexual lifestyle by choice? Maybe I'm misunderstanding your posts. I appreciated Laureltree's post about her mom and sister. In her inner circle are people she knows intimately who are purposely living a homosexual lifestyle because of experiences they've had that have shaped their sexual preference. Because these are the people she knows who are gay, it is her perception that people are gay by choice. I agree that that is the case with most gay Americans. Because of my experiences with the gay people in MY inner circle, and scientific findings, I also believe that it is an inborn sexual orientation in SOME situations. These are the people I consider TRUE homosexuals. To those people who wish to embrace biblical values, celibacy is the only option. They can't simply become heterosexual. There don't have to be an advantages because it's simply who they are.

I don't know that celibacy is the only options...I mean I know of people who get married to old men to have a security...like marrying a father they never had...

I also know of people who have prayed to God to receive love for their mate who destroyed that love through some monstrous deed...and were given that love....

I also know of people who have been married to someone they were obligated to marry because of traditional matchmaking....

All of these have proven you can have more than just what you think you have to have...in order to fulfil righteousness according to the commandments.

I think the gays are trying to say...there is no other way...just to accomadate what they really want...this is called manipulation....

[Ray]

Originally posted by curvette@ Mar 4 2004, 08:55 AM

If they are that way by nature, do you think that they are just going to suddenly become attracted to the opposite sex because it's a better way to live? Maybe you should encourage them to live a celibate life as that is surely the best they can do, but there is no way, NO way their basic biology is going to change.

I will contend that your basing your reasoning on a mighty big IF. I will contend that homosexuality is no more a matter of biology than the urge to engage in any other kind of sexually deviant behavior, or anything else that comes from a “natural” desire. The natural man has been an enemy of God since the beginning of time, and always will be, unless he yields to the promptings of the Holy Ghost.

Doing something just because it feels good, or just because you feel naturally inclined to do it, isn’t a valid excuse for anything. If some scientists could determine that some men naturally have a sexual attraction to young little girls, would you say that those men have the right to do what they want to do? If someone feels they should be able to express their love to their whole family through sexual relations with each and every one of them, by what they say is an expression of love, do you suppose that the rest of us on this world are going to say that they should have the right to do that? Why do we say that a person must be a certain age before they can be married? Why do we say that a person can’t have more than one spouse? Where do we draw the line? By what Man determines should be “legal”?

I woke up this morning to the news on the radio, as I usually do, and I heard some more talk from Multnomah County representatives about the homosexual marriage legislation that was recently passed around here in Portland Oregon. One person stated something like “Once you see the happiness that comes to these people simply by being allowed to marry, you’ll know that there is no harm being done to the world by this.” How preposterous. Just because people appear to be happy when they are allowed to do something doesn’t make what they are doing a good thing. Wickedness never was happiness, and it never will be. If people don’t come to realize the consequences to their actions during this life period, they will come to know it eventually, and there will be nothing but shame and grief to everyone who comes to realize that they have done something wrong.

[sgallan]

Well there is a lot more to the story and you will have to wait to find that part out...but it is not what you think.... ****

That's what they all say....

[sgallan]

The world is definitely spinning out of control at an amazing rate...but we were promise that it would be cut short or all the people would be destroyed...interestingly...I have to believe that more now than ever. *****

Sad you live in a scary world. Mine has difficulties to be sure, but it is full of joy and hope.

[sgallan]

*** You have been fooled by the lie...but you aren't the only one. ****

How do you know. Say, are you God per chance? Show me something really cool then. Even if it kills me (God miracles have been said t do this a lot).

[sgallan]

Ray -

Are you are a biologist? Do you think everything that will ever be discovered in biology has been? You cannot know if there is, or isn't, a biological component. That is a branch of biology that science is just beginning to unravel.

**** Just because people appear to be happy when they are allowed to do something doesn’t make what they are doing a good thing. Wickedness never was happiness, and it never will be. If people don’t come to realize the consequences to their actions during this life period, they will come to know it eventually, and there will be nothing but shame and grief to everyone who comes to realize that they have done something wrong. *****

In that case I think I'll continue to do good deeds in my wickedness, and remain blissfully unhappy. It's served me well for 43 years. No need to stop now. I think I'll teach the kid the same (and am). Because if you've seen the pictures I've posted that kid is obviously blissfully unhappy. Pretty big smile for such misery though.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Peace@Mar 4 2004, 11:28 AM

Oh my gosh...do you know what 'imoral' means?

I'm wondering if you know what immoral means. " conflicting with generally or traditionally held moral principles" Moral virtues include: courage, honesty, temperance, friendliness, modesty, charity, temperance, justice, prudence, fortitude, and liberality (just to name a few.) I'm always amazed at the LDS tendency to make "chastity" and "morality" synonyms. Morality encompasses far more than just chaste behavior.

[Guest TheProudDuck]

Originally posted by sgallan@Mar 3 2004, 08:12 PM

PD -

I am talking about homosexuals here. I am not talking about the endless variables that are part of anything. Try to stay on topic. Homosexuals need to just be what they are, and live their lives. And now that society has changed to where it is relatively safe to come out of the closet there is no need for them to stay in it. Now if they are true believing LDS homosexuals (remember stay focused), the choices are pretty much how I laid them out. Otherwise, after that initial youthful angst of exceptance, homosexuals seem to do quite well these days. Are even a marketing force.

Duck, are you becoming borderline homophobic per chance? I sense almost a disgust and contempt. Where does this derive from? And from you of all people. I am rather astonished. But I guess we all have our "things". And before you get all political on me suggesting I am using "tactics". I am doing no such thing (and I do not lie). We have conversed an awful lot. I have given you the benefit of the doubt. It took a long time before I started to sense this. I find it highly disturbing. One of those things which has me lose my faith in humanity from time to time. Really.

Scott -- I try not to have disgust or contempt for anyone's weaknesses, because when I do, a voice in the back of my head reminds me of my own. I'm sorry you're getting a "sense" that things are otherwise. I thought I was defending my beliefs as respectfully as I could.

I do sense from you a bit of frustration that you're not changing my mind, especially from that "homophobic" line. "Homophobia" implies a kind of irrational fear, or hatred. Homosexual activists and I have different ideas as to what marriage means. That doesn't mean I hate them, any more than I hate people who think a tighter monetary policy is a good idea.

One of the major disagreements I have with the Church (and with canonized scripture, no less!) is that I don't believe that sexual sin is next only to murder in seriousness. I think that the sins of the flesh, or sins against holiness, are generally far less deadly than sins of the spirit, or of the will -- arrogance, envy, selfishness, pettiness, and so forth.

But the fact that there are "weightier matters of the law" than sex, doesn't mean sexual morality isn't significant at all. I'm simply not convinced, after hearing much argument, that there is any sexual relationship which is as creative, constructive, and sanctifying, as a righteous marriage. Knowing, as I do, the endless difficulties that will arise from trying to decide exactly where on the sexual spectrum to draw the line, I choose to draw the line where it has been traditionally drawn: that no sexual relationship is equal to marriage.

That's why we are not just "talking about homosexuals here." The "endless variables" are necessarily part of this debate. Many, if not all, of the arguments that you, the man next to me on the left, are using, are arguments which, if accepted, could just as easily be used as the man next to you on the left.