Virginity

[Guest Monica]

How important is it? Why did God create it? Why is it mentioned in the bible?

[to_tall]

just off hand from what i can remember virginity was and is a sign of being whole and pure, alot of the people that says are virgins in the bible that i can remeber dedicate there lifes to god and such, in the case of marry it says it to make the statment that it was god who made jesus not man.

i think its importaint to try and keep that for the right person at the right time but i personaly wouldnt dumb a girl i really loved cause she wasnt a virgin, people make mistakes and other things can happen that would take that i would be more conserned with her bein honest with me about it, and that she didnt catch soem kind of bug. granted it would be nice but i dont see it as a requirment. if i love her i love her.

[Fiannan]

It's pretty important in Muslim countries. If you even give the sign of not having it you might receive an e-mail or message on your cell pnone from one of your male relatives instructing you to kill yourself -- and save him or your brothers the mess of having to do it themselves.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/07/12/news/virgins.php

[Lindy]

How sad is that? That a female should have to take her life for the honor of the males in her family? Sure, virginity is a a sacred symbol of purity but as To-Tall said... "things happen" isn't that where repentance is to come in? It's a scary thought the things that go on in the minds of others of different faiths or cultures. It's their way of life, and it makes me all that more appreciative of where I live in this world.

Sure virginity is important, but not to use as a bargaining tool for a father to use like she is a commodity, In the old days, the virgin was given in marriage..... love had nothing to do with it.... I guess the lucky ones learned to love their husband. Virginity really is a status symbol I guess. Holding it up to show others you are pure, undefiled and untouched. As it is now as it was in the Bible days.... the thought is to keep a virgin for the man you marry.

Random thought- once it's gone, it's gone..... so a virgin marries... what happens when she gets divorced? Does that mean she's a nasty person for haveing had sex before? I'm not talking about the woman who sleeps around with anyman she can find.... I'm talking about the one who isn't a virgin any longer because of marriage, or perhaps a committed relationship gone bad. I like what TT had to say.... it doesn't matter if she is or isn't.... if I love her I love her.. The world needs more thoughts like that IMHO.

[Fiannan]

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/07/12/news/virgins.php

Like I said, people speak of this issue as if it is historical. Honor killings are on a rapid increase throughout the western world due to immigration from the Middle East and there's no indication that they are decreasing there. Virginity can mean life or death in much of the world.

[Lindy]

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/07/12/news/virgins.php

Like I said, people speak of this issue as if it is historical. Honor killings are on a rapid increase throughout the western world due to immigration from the Middle East and there's no indication that they are decreasing there. Virginity can mean life or death in much of the world.

OK, I have a question for the honor killings in the Middle Eastern countries...... does it only pertain to females? I'm sure there are such things as virgin males.... but what happens when one ceases to honor that status? is HE put to death? Or is it a sexist thing for females only? Just curious.

[prisonchaplain]

OK, I have a question for the honor killings in the Middle Eastern countries...... does it only pertain to females? I'm sure there are such things as virgin males.... but what happens when one ceases to honor that status? is HE put to death? Or is it a sexist thing for females only? Just curious.

Reminds me of the New Testament story of the woman caught in the act of adultery. They bring her to Jesus, and ask, "What should we do?" Jesus says that whoever is without sin should go ahead and cast the first stone. ...

Haven't you ever wondered what they did with the DUDE caught in that same act?

[Jason]

Haven't you ever wondered what they did with the DUDE caught in that same act?

Maybe that dude was Jesus. Saving his own skin as well as the lady's.

[Lindy]

SHAME on you Jason

PC- I tend to think that they probably did the same thing then as they do now.... pat the guy on the back and say "score!". Sad, sad little world

[prisonchaplain]

Maybe that dude was Jesus. Saving his own skin as well as the lady's.

Jason used to be so pure, so innocent, such an honest rebel. But...SIGH!...he's gone commercial, done become a Da Vinci Code wannabe

[Jason]

SHAME on you Jason

Oh come on. Look at it from a neutral position. It stands to reason that Jesus could have been the guy. Why else would he care about some chick caught having sex? Must have happened everyday. So why single out this one?

Jason used to be so pure, so innocent, such an honest rebel. But...SIGH!...he's gone commercial, done become a Da Vinci Code wannabe

So Im a sell-out. If I can make as much as Brown, who wouldn't?

[Snow]

61 And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood-if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.

62 And if he have ten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.

63 But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery, and shall be destroyed; for they are given unto him to multiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be glorified.

I think it's all pretty clear.

[Lindy]

61 And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood-if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.

62 And if he have ten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.

63 But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery, and shall be destroyed; for they are given unto him to multiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be glorified.

I think it's all pretty clear.

So, if he sleeps with someone NOT espoused to him.... what then? Does that free the virgins who were espoused to him to marry another? Kind of cruel to me that the female could stay true to her vows and then go to another man when her marriage was defiled by a cheating husband and

But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery, and shall be destroyed;

DESTROYED? sheeeesh

[john doe]

I dated a girl once who thought she wasn't good enough to be with me since she was not a virgin. She had fallen to temptation a couple years earlier. I told her I didn't care about her past as long as she felt she had repented and that she could honestly get a temple recommend if I ever got around to asking her to marry me. I think it changed her whole perspective, and she eventually did marry in the temple, but not to me.

People will make mistakes in this life, and that is why the atonement is so important to us. What kind of Father would condemn His child to death with a one-strike rule? I personally give my children multiple chances to get things right, and I believe that God and Jesus love us enough to do the same for us. We are here to learn how to live good lives, and I can't fathom a Father who wouldn't give His children a second chance if it were possible to do so.

[Lindy]

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SHAME on you Jason

Oh come on. Look at it from a neutral position. It stands to reason that Jesus could have been the guy. Why else would he care about some chick caught having sex? Must have happened everyday. So why single out this one?

I stand by my "shame on you"

I am looking at it from a neutral position. Maybe I just look at things at a different perspective than you do.. havent' you ever stood up for someone accused of something without you having had a part in the scandel? Some people have a natural tendency to care about others...without having to have had an underlying reason for it.

[Fiannan]

In the Bible, if a man rapes a woman he is subject to death, but not her. If a man (married) messes around with a virgin and is caught, he had to marry the woman and not be able to divorce her ("Hey honey, guess what? We have a new addition to the marriage.). If a married man has sex with a married woman they could be stoned as a penalty.

In Islamic nations if a woman is raped she is often killed by her family. Male rapists can be executed as well. If a boy loses his virginity through consensual sex it's more tolerated (in Europe many Islamic teens have sex with the native infidel blond girls but expect their Muslim bride to be a virgin). Another tragic thing is if an Islamic girl starts showing interest in a non-Islamic boy she might also get terminated.

[prisonchaplain]

In Islamic nations if a woman is raped she is often killed by her family. Male rapists can be executed as well. If a boy loses his virginity through consensual sex it's more tolerated (in Europe many Islamic teens have sex with the native infidel blond girls but expect their Muslim bride to be a virgin). Another tragic thing is if an Islamic girl starts showing interest in a non-Islamic boy she might also get terminated.

Fiannan, I'm sure if we had a Muslim apologist here, s/he would be able to explain many of your assertions of late. You seem intent on casting Islam in a bad light. However, in this forum, with no Muslim advocates, it's sort of like shooting at chickens in a coop.

Sorry...the PC's being a little pc today.

[Fiannan]

What's there to explain? Have you ever heard of a young man who commits fornication in Islam being put to death? It might happen but I have not heard of it. However, in some Islamic nations if a couple is caught in adultery both are killed.

I remember reading a blog dealing with polygamy (it was Islamic) where a man put across the figure of how many single women lived in New York and probably would remain that way. His solution was polygamy but he noted that since most of these women were probably fornicators they would not be suitable for marriage to good Muslim men. Muslim men desire virgins, that's why in some Muslim countries on the wedding night all the male friends and relatives gather around the newly married couple's window and cheer for joy when a sheet is displayed showing that the hymen has been broken for the first time -- others just present the sheets to inlaws or other close relatives.

Type into google or any other search engine the term honor killing and then place a predominatnly Muslim nation in the search. It occurs even in European Albania. And it is occuring more and more throughout countries with heavy Muslim immigration.

The reason for jumping into this thread with this is not to chastize Muslims but to point out that many people see issues like virginity as just some trivial thing but in much of the world it is still very important. We should teach our children to remain virgins until marriage -- while if they do foul up at least here they can repent though (well, unless they get some fatal disease and die -- in which case I suppose they can get forgiveness, but they still have to suffer the physical fate).

[Lindy]

The reason for jumping into this thread with this is not to chastize Muslims but to point out that many people see issues like virginity as just some trivial thing but in much of the world it is still very important. We should teach our children to remain virgins until marriage --

I agree, issues like virginity are still important... should be important for both male and female. However, I think that so many cultures hold the male unacountable when it comes to being chaste. That is what I have a hard time with.... why should a female be looked down upon when the male commits the same sin? I can appreciate those countries where the male is held just as accountable for his actions..... kudos to them! If more countries followed suit... rape and unwed pregnancy would drop dramatically

It bothers me that now-a-days love has been thrown out of the act of giving of oneself to another..... it's so what's the word... desensitized?

[JohnTaylor1886]

The reason for jumping into this thread with this is not to chastize Muslims but to point out that many people see issues like virginity as just some trivial thing but in much of the world it is still very important. We should teach our children to remain virgins until marriage --

I agree, issues like virginity are still important... should be important for both male and female. However, I think that so many cultures hold the male unacountable when it comes to being chaste. That is what I have a hard time with.... why should a female be looked down upon when the male commits the same sin? I can appreciate those countries where the male is held just as accountable for his actions..... kudos to them! If more countries followed suit... rape and unwed pregnancy would drop dramatically

It bothers me that now-a-days love has been thrown out of the act of giving of oneself to another..... it's so what's the word... desensitized?

I could not agree with you more, and I am a male, for what it is worth.

It is easy for a man to conceal the fact that he is unchaste. Nothing really happens to him. A female, well, that is a bit different. They can become pregnant, but a male...nothing. Is it fair? No. I agree that a male should be looked down upon for being unchaste.

Giving oneself to another is the highest form of love that there is. In fact, in ancient times, the way to marry was through consummating the marriage. That was it. Of course, later, people started to stand on ceremony...some of then to the point of hedonistic extravagance.

I am going to "quit while I am ahead", because I have more thoughts on this, but I do not want to derail the thread.

[prisonchaplain]

What's there to explain? Have you ever heard of a young man who commits fornication in Islam being put to death? It might happen but I have not heard of it. However, in some Islamic nations if a couple is caught in adultery both are killed.

There are Christian extremists on the web, just as there are Muslim ones. I do know that there are highly educated, moderate Muslims who could explain why the radicals are the way they are, and why they do not represent mainstream Islam.

The reason for jumping into this thread with this is not to chastize Muslims but to point out that many people see issues like virginity as just some trivial thing but in much of the world it is still very important. We should teach our children to remain virgins until marriage -- while if they do foul up at least here they can repent though (well, unless they get some fatal disease and die -- in which case I suppose they can get forgiveness, but they still have to suffer the physical fate).

If you point was simply to show that some religionists take virginity and sexual purity very seriously versus our cavalier society, then, sure, we need to take it very seriously. I'm still thinking my Protestant monastary for young girls is a good idea.

[Fiannan]

I doubt if your idea of a Protestant monestary would be a good idea. I once heard a lesbian nun in an interview where she said that once she left the order her sex life decreased dramatically.

[Dr T]

Fiannan,

Where was she? Did she have to leave because of that?

[john doe]

Fiannan,

Where was she? Did she have to leave because of that?

Down boy, down! Control yourself!

[Dr T]

Hey John Doe,

That was funny!