Pornography's Lies

[Snow]

"Common wisdom has held that men are the prime consumers of smut, but an Internet research company has found that women, primarily those between 18 and 34 years of age made up 42 percent of the visitors to such sites in January.

One woman, sho said she hopes to produce and direct her own pornographic films tod the Times this was an issue of "empowering" women.

Isn't it interesting how the world can take the very thing that saps humanity of it's real power and call it empowerment?

...Pornography today, which is being forced upon the people in ways never before comtemplated, is destroying countless lives, addicting minds and robbing people of uplifting passions and fellings. It causes people to view one another as objects for their own selfish pleasure, not as human beings worthy of respect and human dignity..."

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree with all that and stuff. I would say that the purveyors and consumers of porn, by and large, suffer those consequences more than do those who aren't involved with it. I don't have any evidence to back up that conclusion but it makes some prima facie sense, does it not? Maybe it even makes some a priori sense for that matter.

BUT, is it necessarily so? Is there an inevitable connection between porn and the aforemention incompatibly with human dignity, decency, goodness... I mean, could there be a person who involved themselves in the consumption of pornography, and yet maintained a good and productive and righteous life, towards him/herself, towards her/his family, in keeping with the wider principles of the gospel?

Are there such individual that are good practicing Christians? Good practicing Mormons? Good practicing members of the Green Party?

[Franken]

I hate to say it, but I have a friend like that. I didn't find out till only about 2 weeks ago that he had been through all of that. Before knowing this, I knew him as one of my greatest friends (still are) I looked up to him, he seemed so righteous to me. His father is the bishop. He always seemed to amaze me with his words of wisdom. I found that he was often crying, and he blamed it on his girlfriend and at the time I believed him, but now I know it really was because of all the pornography. Yes there can be good people who consume it, but it will eventually get the best of them. The only reason he finally told me this year is that he had to tell someone, it was killing him. He often told me that it was near impossible to resist once he had been tempted. It had been so much of a natural act after a while for him. I think really the only way to get out of this kind of thing is to really want to get away from it. Now, that I can give him all my support and help, he really has tried to stop and amend his life. He's doing a great job and I commend him for it because it really is quite near impossible when you get that deep. I really think it's helped him a ton now that he's been able to tell people more easily and know that they won't think any less of him. Now there is just one thing left for him, that is telling the bishop. I really wish it weren't so, but I don't know if he will be able to do it. I mean, it's his dad. Seeing how he's been doing lately though, I think he might pull through.

[Jason]

You know, I work in a computer store. (Long story there) I see computers come in all the time from "upstanding" members of the community with Porn on them. One thing I've noticed is that the parents usually blame it on the kids. (You know boys....hahahaha) Religious affiliation seems to have no bearing on those who view pornography. It's straight across the board. Just today I had a woman of the LDS persuasion who took great offense when I told her that her computer was full of spyware because of the porn sites she visited. SHE WOULD NEVER DO THAT! Of course if nobody else uses the computer, who else could it have been?

J

[Behunin]

Here's a question from naive little me: To get porn on one's PC, is going to a porn website the only way of getting it, or can it be delivered by email, or some other way?

(don't get the wrong idea, OK?, I am just curious)

[Jason]

you naughty girl. You can have it sent directly into your email. (If your of the magazine persuasion, they can send it to your unknown post office box, or you can find a nice video rental and take it into your home.)

[DisRuptive1]

Most likely, you have to go to some porn sight, and sign up for their weekly newsletter email or whatever.

Are stripclubs and lap dances considered porn???

[Rodney]

Originally posted by Snow@Mar 4 2004, 09:35 PM

...Pornography today, which is being forced upon the people in ways never before comtemplated, is destroying countless lives, addicting minds and robbing people of uplifting passions and fellings.

Is this somehow inferring that we can become victims of pornography? Victims? You mean we have no choice in the matter? That it's actually somebody else's fault when we click on to a porn site? How then is it that it's our fault if we drink alcohol/coffee/tea or smoke tobacco or don't attend church regularly or don't pay a full tithe, but it's not our fault if we get hooked on pornography? Oh yes, the Church of Pick-n-Choose can easily explain it all away.

[Outshined]

The same way you can be a victim of addiction to anything.

[Rodney]

Originally posted by Outshined@Mar 5 2004, 06:23 AM

The same way you can be a victim of addiction to anything.

VICTIM!!?? No way, since there are no such things as victims. Just ask The Opinion of The Snow, our resident free agency expert. One ALWAYS has a choice. No one to blame but oneself. Look inward, not outward. We ALL have the power--the power to choose the white hats over the black hats; the light and the delightsome over the dark and the kinky.

[Spencer]

Originally posted by Rodney+Mar 5 2004, 09:40 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rodney @ Mar 5 2004, 09:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Outshined@Mar 5 2004, 06:23 AM

The same way you can be a victim of addiction to anything.

VICTIM!!?? No way, since there are no such things as victims. Just ask The Opinion of The Snow, our resident free agency expert. One ALWAYS has a choice. No one to blame but oneself. Look inward, not outward. We ALL have the power--the power to choose the white hats over the black hats; the light and the delightsome over the dark and the kinky.

You sure know a lot about folks for only being here for a month...

What ya got on bat?

Spencer

[Rodney]

You sure know a lot about folks for only being here for a month...

Wellll, either I'm purdy darn quick on the uptake or the learning curve around here is about as steep as the Salt Flats.

What ya got on bat?

Do believe I've got diddly on bat, except that I hear he's been kicked out for using the unthinkable, unspeakable, highly dreaded "m" word.

[Outshined]

Originally posted by Spencer@Mar 5 2004, 07:56 AM

What ya got on bat?

bat's been posting a bit over at FAIR recently.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Rodney@Mar 5 2004, 04:58 AM

You mean we have no choice in the matter? That it's actually somebody else's fault when we click on to a porn site? How then is it that it's our fault if we drink alcohol/coffee/tea or smoke tobacco or don't attend church regularly or don't pay a full tithe, but it's not our fault if we get hooked on pornography? Oh yes, the Church of Pick-n-Choose can easily explain it all away.

Well, sometimes there is no choice. For some reason, sometimes the internet throws things at you in spite of your good intentions and good parental controls. Just an example: I have a program that sends me an email with all of the websites my children have visited. I sort of do spot checks. One website was approved for teenage use, and the content was okay (guitar tabs), but there was a pop up advertisement (no pun intended...) with a picture of an explicit sexual act on it. I was so mad! In the past, people had to make a conscious decison to view pornography and seek it out. Now, it just pops up when we are least expecting it and in unlikely places. I guess we could just blame the computer and ban access to it, but that's not really practical either because a certain amount of homework is routinely done on scholastic internet sites.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by DisRuptive1@Mar 5 2004, 12:28 AM

Are stripclubs and lap dances considered porn???

Only if the strippers are female. Male strippers are definitely NOT considered porn. They are unspeakably beautiful works of art...

[Rodney]

Originally posted by curvette+Mar 5 2004, 03:29 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Mar 5 2004, 03:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Rodney@Mar 5 2004, 04:58 AM

You mean we have no choice in the matter?  That it's actually somebody else's fault when we click on to a porn site?  How then is it that it's our fault if we drink alcohol/coffee/tea or smoke tobacco or don't attend church regularly or don't pay a full tithe, but it's not our fault if we get hooked on pornography?  Oh yes, the Church of Pick-n-Choose can easily explain it all away.

Well, sometimes there is no choice. For some reason, sometimes the internet throws things at you in spite of your good intentions and good parental controls. Just an example: I have a program that sends me an email with all of the websites my children have visited. I sort of do spot checks. One website was approved for teenage use, and the content was okay (guitar tabs), but there was a pop up advertisement (no pun intended...) with a picture of an explicit sexual act on it. I was so mad! In the past, people had to make a conscious decison to view pornography and seek it out. Now, it just pops up when we are least expecting it and in unlikely places. I guess we could just blame the computer and ban access to it, but that's not really practical either because a certain amount of homework is routinely done on scholastic internet sites.

You mean we have no choice in the matter, i.e., to become addicted to pornography?

[Matt]

Just today I had a woman of the LDS persuasion who took great offense when I told her that her computer was full of spyware because of the porn sites she visited. SHE WOULD NEVER DO THAT! Of course if nobody else uses the computer, who else could it have been

You sure about this being the way that spyware gets on to computers? IE., via porn sites? (Or do you have evidence culled from the particular spyware? )

At work we found one computer that came in pre-loaed with spyware. Also, some spyware is slipped onto magazine cover disks and some shareware vendors send spyware.

And the latest scam is for Spyware to be sent via emails using trojan techniues and hyjacking email address books.

[porterrockwell]

First off, you can make a bad choice and fall victim to it's influence. When someone is raped or killed, did they choose to be? No. They chose a situation(whether good or bad) that was inhabited by said danger, thus you have the effect or consequence. I do agree with Snow, however, it is getting bad. And yes Jason, even upstanding members deal with porn issues, I think we tend to put upstanding, even ultra-moral people on a platform and that is unfair to them and us. Everyone struggles with one weakness or another, everybody. I know I have been "pissed off" at this board, but at least there is SOME discernment. I go over to Christian Forums and we have "mainstream Christians" rationalizing porn. Things like,"It's bad only if it creates unholy thoughts", or "I knit while I am watching porn so I don't know what the problem is". Wow, that was the "lighter" side rationalization. Bottomline, in any respect, porn desicrates the sanctity of sexuality and what it was meant for. Sexuality was intended, and created for pro-creation and for those in a loving union of marriage(hetero's only). Furthermore, pornography weakens the mind and creates violent, unhealthy expectations of future sexual encounters. That in itself rips apart the fabric our Family Foundation that is key to progression within a society that is breaking down the opportunity to build a moral structure on that foundation.

[Rodney]

Originally posted by porterrockwell@Mar 5 2004, 05:32 PM

... Furthermore, pornography weakens the mind and creates violent, unhealthy expectations of future sexual encounters. That in itself rips apart the fabric our Family Foundation that is key to progression within a society that is breaking down the opportunity to build a moral structure on that foundation.

Spoken like someone who knows or has been there, seen that, done that...

[Snow]

No offense Porterrockwell (odd that a guy who is so opposed to pornography would adopt the username of a serial killer ... sex bad, murder okay) but all you are saying is, well you aren't saying anything. So you think pornography weakens the mind. Big deal. Your opinion is nice for you but I really don't care. What evidence do you have that pornography weakens the mind and creates violent expectations of future encounters?

As a test, I just looked at some pornography. It's just a google away. My mind is just as strong as it was before I looked. I don't have any violent expectations for when my wife and I get back from the date I am taking her on this evening. I bet I could look again tomorrow and it wouldn't be any different.

I know that there are scumbags who are way into porn. I rather suspect that they are scumbags without and before the porn and porn is just one of the outlets for their scumatude. I think that their scumiosity can be increased through consistents and dedicated immersion in porn, just like it could be increase through alcohol, or inappropriate use of pychotropic medication, or hanging out with bikers and soccer hooligans or with any negative influence. Anything can be a negative influence if you engage in it to the extent that it squeezes out positive and unlifting influences.

I wouldn't say that looking at naked people doing the big how-do-you-do is necessarily uplifting but must it needs be that sexual titilation is incompatible with the gospel and the spirit? It's like... we don't drink because it is commanded of us, but also because it, in toto, is bad for us. However, a glass of wine per day may actually be healthier for you than not having a glass of wine per day. So, obedience aside, maybe wine is not incompatible with the gospel/spirit. People TEND to abuse things like porn and booze but if they didn't tend to abuse it, what would be so bad - obedience issues aside? There have been plenty of modern prophets and apostles that we all believe were inspired that drank alcohol and coffee before our more recent interpretation of the WoW rolled out.

[sgallan]

**** "I knit while I am watching porn so I don't know what the problem is". ****

Hmm, I've never tried this one before.

*** Furthermore, pornography weakens the mind and creates violent, unhealthy expectations of future sexual encounters. ****

I agree with what Snow said. The scumbags, and/or the people with potential addictive behavior, are always there no matter. Otherwise me and most of my peer group sorta grew up around it. While not a big part of our lives, getting a tape for a bachelor party, or a guys type party, was never an issue (pre-internet). Having a tape or two around the house to watch with the wife/girlfriend wasn't unusual. Still isn't. We are all in our forties now. It somehow hasn't seemed to have the affects you envision for us. Till this day I'll sneak a peak occasionally. The wife and I also have used it as foreplay from time to time, over the years. My sexual expectations are currently, and have always been, what we agree on as a couple.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Matt@Mar 5 2004, 04:21 PM

Just today I had a woman of the LDS persuasion who took great offense when I told her that her computer was full of spyware because of the porn sites she visited. SHE WOULD NEVER DO THAT! Of course if nobody else uses the computer, who else could it have been

You sure about this being the way that spyware gets on to computers? IE., via porn sites? (Or do you have evidence culled from the particular spyware? )

At work we found one computer that came in pre-loaed with spyware. Also, some spyware is slipped onto magazine cover disks and some shareware vendors send spyware.

And the latest scam is for Spyware to be sent via emails using trojan techniues and hyjacking email address books.

Hey...my 11 year old got the spyware off of his game site....had nothing to do with porn...maybe that is where you get it from hummmm?

[porterrockwell]

Originally posted by Snow@Mar 5 2004, 08:03 PM

No offense Porterrockwell (odd that a guy who is so opposed to pornography would adopt the username of a serial killer ... sex bad, murder okay) but all you are saying is, well you aren't saying anything. So you think pornography weakens the mind. Big deal. Your opinion is nice for you but I really don't care. What evidence do you have that pornography weakens the mind and creates violent expectations of future encounters?

As a test, I just looked at some pornography. It's just a google away. My mind is just as strong as it was before I looked. I don't have any violent expectations for when my wife and I get back from the date I am taking her on this evening. I bet I could look again tomorrow and it wouldn't be any different.

I know that there are scumbags who are way into porn. I rather suspect that they are scumbags without and before the porn and porn is just one of the outlets for their scumatude. I think that their scumiosity can be increased through consistents and dedicated immersion in porn, just like it could be increase through alcohol, or inappropriate use of pychotropic medication, or hanging out with bikers and soccer hooligans or with any negative influence. Anything can be a negative influence if you engage in it to the extent that it squeezes out positive and unlifting influences.

I wouldn't say that looking at naked people doing the big how-do-you-do is necessarily uplifting but must it needs be that sexual titilation is incompatible with the gospel and the spirit? It's like... we don't drink because it is commanded of us, but also because it, in toto, is bad for us. However, a glass of wine per day may actually be healthier for you than not having a glass of wine per day. So, obedience aside, maybe wine is not incompatible with the gospel/spirit. People TEND to abuse things like porn and booze but if they didn't tend to abuse it, what would be so bad - obedience issues aside? There have been plenty of modern prophets and apostles that we all believe were inspired that drank alcohol and coffee before our more recent interpretation of the WoW rolled out.

I didn't know there was a muderer by the name of Porter Rockwell, nor would associate as such with something to the slightest degree. Furthermore, Pornography is abused because it is filthy and enticing. True, looking at one picture won't turn you into a sexual headcase, but it usually doesn't stop with one picture. It plays to our most carnal senses. And do you think that Lust and Rage are very far apart in their most deviant state? Drinking kills the liver for a reason, it is poison. And it is not about what someone does before the WoW, it's what is after it's been established that matters. Booze and Porn are abusive and severely disabling objects of deception. They take away our ability to precieve righteously, or reasonably for that matter. The reason why also believe this is yes I have viewed pornography, and I am sorry for it. The way it weakened my mind and tempted me in ways I don't wish to be tempted. I don't think scumbag is a good word. The guy who gives in to being a scumbag is doing no different that the sex-crazed frat boy. They are both giving into weaknesses that exist to bring us closer to the Lord, if we wish to overcome those weaknesses. My whole point is people are starting rationalize it, and society's view of what is riske' and what isn't is getting bad, and sadly, it's those people who find influence in lust that are driving that train right into the station.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by sgallan@Mar 5 2004, 07:15 PM

**** "I knit while I am watching porn so I don't know what the problem is". ****

Hmm, I've never tried this one before.

*** Furthermore, pornography weakens the mind and creates violent, unhealthy expectations of future sexual encounters. ****

I agree with what Snow said. The scumbags, and/or the people with potential addictive behavior, are always there no matter. Otherwise me and most of my peer group sorta grew up around it. While not a big part of our lives, getting a tape for a bachelor party, or a guys type party, was never an issue (pre-internet). Having a tape or two around the house to watch with the wife/girlfriend wasn't unusual. Still isn't. We are all in our forties now. It somehow hasn't seemed to have the affects you envision for us. Till this day I'll sneak a peak occasionally. The wife and I also have used it as foreplay from time to time, over the years. My sexual expectations are currently, and have always been, what we agree on as a couple.

Well that explains the reason for your attitudes against the Mormon church....and for homosexuals life stye....

Did you know just how subtle a deciever Satan and his gang are? You don't even know how much he has to do with how you view things...that's how subtle he is.

[sgallan]

Well that explains the reason for your attitudes against the Mormon church....and for homosexuals life stye.... *****

Only the fundamentalist mindset would put such a black/white paradigm on such a thing. I shred the critics of this church, and their myopia, far more than I shred your institution.

**** Did you know just how subtle a deciever Satan and his gang are? ****

No. But I am sure you are going to tell me.

*** You don't even know how much he has to do with how you view things...that's how subtle he is.****

In comparison with your version of God he seems to be the better of the two. I'll hang with him. You seem to believe in a version of God which calls good as bad. And who does not like anybody save the .008% of humanity who believes as you do. Funny, I have a hard time seeing any love in such a being.

Say, in the next month I will; visit a prison (don't have too) to help educate and support people who have had screwed up lives turn themselves around. Perhaps stopping the familial cycle as well. Coach countless kids, help in three tournaments, spend too much money on entry fees for kids not my own (and gas of course), be a Daddy of course, husband, and more. Just this week; a tournament, rolling up the mats, coaching for three hours and some mentoring, an hour watching Reni get a Blue belt, taught in my daughters class this afternoon (volunteer), am helping a HS kid chase a dream (he is 215 pounds and I am 150 - it is just awful on my body), and probably some stuff I forgot. I do this despite suffering from chronic fatigue. But of course your God thinks this is all bad. Upside down..... good is bad and bad is good except when it's not and vice-versa. The fundamentalists hate that I do this stuff. It messes up their preconceptions. They get really weird, snippy, and sometimes cruel. I am used to it. Kinda of like it even.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Rodney@Mar 5 2004, 04:15 PM

You mean we have no choice in the matter, i.e., to become addicted to pornography?

No. I was responding to your comments about clicking on porn sites. Sometimes you can click on a site as benign as guitar tabs and still suddenly be confronted with explicit porn pictures.