Wanted- Honest Answers About Your Faith!

[bmapes]

My name is Brett, I am a student taking a class on Faith and Doctrine. In preparation for an assignment, as well as my own personal edification and pursuit of understanding, I'd like to ask a few questions regarding your faith. Please know that I'm approaching this task with the deepest respect, and am in no way intending to verbally spar with anyone gracious enough to respond. My hope is that your responses would be reflective of your own personal convictions and not posed as "textbook" answers.

1. How/why did you become a believer of Mormonism?

2. What is your main attraction to your faith?

3. What do you think that Evangelicals believe about Christianity? (God/Jesus/Salvation/Bible)

4. What do you think are the serious differences between Mormonism and Christianity? Why?

5. Briefly, what are your views regarding: a)Highest Source/Authority (writings, leaders, etc), b)God, c)Jesus, d)Spirits, e)Humans, f)Salvation, g)Church/God's People, h)Future/Afterlife

6. Do you now, or have you ever had any doubts about Mormonism? If so, what are those doubts, and why?

7. Do you have assurance of salvation?

Thank you so much for your time and thoughts on this! I'm truly appreciative for your help in giving me an unscripted look at the foundation in which you rest your faith!

Blessings, Brett

[Dr T]

Hi Bret,

I think you questions are good ones and fair. Some people might answer some of them for you. However, I expect to see some referrals to official LDS sites for your answers. I hope not, I would love to read member's own personal answers.

Thank you,

Dr. T

[rosie321]

From my own individual interpretation and belief.

Here's a very brief summary.

1. How/why did you become a believer of Mormonism? 2. What is your main attraction to your faith? Because it gave more direction to the religous path than all the other christian faiths. Its not just say a prayer, try to live a good life, try to find a good church out of the million and one+ out there kind of faith.

As someone highly drawn to christian values, morals, and concepts. The LDS faith highlighted different concepts that I believe were ignored, not satisfactorily addressed or left out completely from the average christian faith. The organization appeared to be closely tied to the one that Christ set up. The one that was maintained even after he died by the apostles. When Judas died a replacement was found (in Acts). Thats how important it was. It also strongly emphasized goodness that would be in the world of christ. So I guess ultimately it cut a more clear cut path to where I wanted to go thats why I joined.

3. What do you think that Evangelicals believe about Christianity? (God/Jesus/Salvation/Bible). While there are different views among the average christian (you will even find that in the LDS) overall

God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one being or entity so to say-not three seperate as in the LDS faith.

God created the earth. Men fell and through Adam sinned. "All men have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God" Therefore God came down in the form of christ to die and save us. The Bible is the word of God. It is the only word to base the faith on and go back to. It is the final, authority. Salvation cometh only through Christ to those who believe on him. Once you accept that you are a sinner and accept Christ through a faith prayer you are saved. After that you try and do the right thing and also find a church.

4. What do you think are the serious differences between Mormonism and Christianity? Why? The emphasis on order and oneness, the church organization, the priesthood restoration, continued revelation for the church body as a whole (Additional scriptures BOM, D&C, POGP and a prophets leading), temples, baptisms for the dead by proxy, heaven so to say divided up into three degrees of glory....

The LDS have a 7 day a week faith. There is no time to let down. You are expected to continually learn, grow and progress. This leads you to come to know God , Christ and His Gospel better or if not careful into a legalistic nightmare.

5. Briefly, what are your views regarding: a)Highest Source/Authority (writings, leaders, etc), b)God, c)Jesus, d)Spirits, e)Humans, f)Salvation, g)Church/God's People, h)Future/Afterlife.

As far as God, Jesus, Holy Spirit-3 seperate entities but are unified in purpose. The book of John talks about it a lot. Jesus was working to do the will of His Father in Heaven. We have a childlike relation to HF and are continually learning, growing and progressing. He wants the best for us but cannot let us continue on bad paths. For the good LDS faithful the progression is focused on more then the afterlife . But as far as that you will be placed where God wants you based on your faith and diligence. I know the salvation concept is a very difficult one for christians to understand about LDS. We don't worry about the afterlife. We have faith it will all work out. No need to fear. Heavenly Father has made us many promises of protection and help along the way. So we don't have to spend all our time worrying about it. I'm sure from the Christian faith you are already aware of many promises from the Bible. One from the Book of Mormon- It is by grace ye are saved after all that you can do. We are also told number of times to endure to the end. Christ said to Peter after he had been following Christ for a while I pray for you that you might be converted. Those things indicate something more than just a moment of decision. In the LDS faith everyone has a chance to learn and understand the gospel whether in this life or the next so God is not just seeking to destroy people and send them to hell for no reason. He has made many promises to us. We just need to keep growing in His grace and not spend all our time focusing on the next life but what we need to do today. We will continue to have the truth revealed to our hearts and have continued revelations. They did not stop with the Bible or those men of faith. That makes God all the more real to us. If it stopped years ago then how important are we?

6. Do you now, or have you ever had any doubts about Mormonism? If so, what are those doubts, and why?

Yes- cultural norms, the one way mentality that serves as a protection can also be a curse if outside the will of God. There are at times things that don't make sense. Although they are as possible as anything else in scriptures or other faith beliefs. Dealing with my own imperfections. Not looking enough or focusing on the promise of God. Letting other peoples imperfections get under my skin. Self doubt. Holding onto or hiding the weaknesses and bad stuff at times rather then letting it go quick enough. Not focusing enough on the positive.....

I hope that brief summary helps you out some. There's volumes that could probably go between but hope thats enough to help you out.

[Guest ApostleKnight]

1. How/why did you become a believer of Mormonism?

I was raised LDS. I was taught its teachings. I evaluated and pondered them as I grew older and gained the capacity to. I prayed about them. I gained a testimony of the Book of Mormon as God's word, and of Joseph Smith as a prophet of Restoration. God witnessed to me.

2. What is your main attraction to your faith?

I believe it's the only church with the priesthood authority Jesus gave to the New Testament apostles. As such, I believe it's the only church with the Lord's authorization to teach and administer the doctrines/ordinances of salvation. Further, I believe it's led by a prophet who is every bit the prophet/leader to God's people as Moses was to ancient Israel.

3. What do you think that Evangelicals believe about Christianity? (God/Jesus/Salvation/Bible)

The Godhead is made up of three persons who are essentially one God. There is no need for a formal priesthood structure as the priesthood of believers grants all access to God through Christ's grace. Believe in Christ to be saved, no ordinances needed. The Bible is God's word and there can be no other. Similarly, God doesn't need to call prophets to guide us, since the Bible holds all the wisdom and truth we need. These are a few differences from LDS doctrine that come off the top of my head.

4. What do you think are the serious differences between Mormonism and Christianity? Why?

I won't take offense at that, though I will point out that "Mormons" are Christians. We believe Jesus is our Savior. We are also taught to love our neighbors, which Jesus gave as the sole indicator of who his disciples were (John 13:35). I think you meant to ask what the differences are between LDS and non-LDS Christians. Mainly, the doctrines I've listed in my answer to #3. Issues like living prophets, continuing revelation, new scripture, new ordinances, etc... define the dividing line between non-LDS Christians (Catholics, Baptists, Evangelicals, Lutherans, Methodists, etc...) and LDS Christians.

5. Briefly, what are your views regarding: a)Highest Source/Authority (writings, leaders, etc), b)God, c)Jesus, d)Spirits, e)Humans, f)Salvation, g)Church/God's People, h)Future/Afterlife

A. God's revelations to prophets may supplement or alter previous revelations/scriptures when God is truly speaking. B.C.D. God is the literal Father of my spirit; the literal Father of Jesus Christ's spirit and physical body; God and Jesus are distinct individuals each possessing an exalted body of flesh and bone (not blood); the Holy Ghost is a person of Spirit who may dwell in us and teach us all things. Together, they constitute one governing Council or Godhead. E. Humans are literal spirit children of God joined with physical bodies in the image of God. F. All mankind can be saved through Jesus Christ's grace and atonement, which we access by obedience to gospel laws and ordinances. G. God extends salvation to His children through covenants administered in our day by His Son's Church. H. Men will be judged by their works (Rev. 20:12-13) and assigned a degree of glory according to their faithfulness in keeping covenants and serving Christ.

6. Do you now, or have you ever had any doubts about Mormonism? If so, what are those doubts, and why?

Not then, not now. God's witness to me is enough.

7. Do you have assurance of salvation?

As long as I keep the covenants I have made as a member of the LDS Church, I feel I am keeping my end and God will keep His, namely, bring me back to His side in eternity to dwell with Him and Christ in eternal joy. The Spirit is my thermometer, so to speak, of my worthiness. How much of God's love and presence I feel tells me of my nearness or distance from Him.

Hope that helps Brett. Good luck on your search for edification. Try reading the Book of Mormon some time. See what it teaches. Then you'll understand what we believe far better than reading answers on a message board. God bless.

p.s. I enjoyed your response Rosie.

[Princess3dward]

I am a convert so I only really know alot about how I know it is true, and my own testimony..but I would love to try and anwser!

1. How/why did you become a believer of Mormonism? I was a devout chatholic, and as you might guess, some of their beliefs are different. I came across sister missionaries and talked to them.. just to know.. and I ended up feeling the spiirit soo strong I got baptised. That was lats year. I am 16 now.

2. What is your main attraction to your faith? The spirit, and how I have a testimony of every aspect of it! I have had REMARKABLE miricles in my life through the power of prayer, and REMARKABLE healing through the atonement.

3. What do you think that Evangelicals believe about Christianity? (God/Jesus/Salvation/Bible) I don't know about them specificly, but most christian denominations believe you just have to believe that Jesus was the saviour and died.. but that, to me, ignores the atonement..

4. What do you think are the serious differences between Mormonism and Christianity? Why? Woops... stated above! Also, we don't believe in the trinity...because remember the bible story where Jesus got baptised?

G-d said, and then the Holy Spirit came down... That makes no sense if they are all one.

5. Briefly, what are your views regarding: a)Highest Source/Authority (writings, leaders, etc), b)God, c)Jesus, d)Spirits, e)Humans, f)Salvation, g)Church/God's People, h)Future/Afterlife a)He is inspired and I love him! b)Always looking out for us. Everything is to make us happy, and it works! He also wants us to come home. c) He saved me through his sacrafice d)They exist. Some good, some bad. e) lots quite mean.... but they have good hearts if you look deep enough. g) I hope they keep strong h)Excited!

6. Do you now, or have you ever had any doubts about Mormonism? If so, what are those doubts, and why? Yes... I moved in with my father and was like.. I will NOT join your church. The whole thing did not make sense to me. I am glad I changed. I doubted the prophet and the book of mormon, and because I didn't want to give it a chance... mostly because my mom would have hated me... and she does.

7. Do you have assurance of salvation? Yes.

[Ray]

1. How/why did you become a believer of Mormonism?

In response to the HOW:

Step 1. I accepted some truths another church taught me which prepared me to learn even more.

Step 2. I met a returned missionary, a member of this church, who taught me some more that she knew.

Step 3. I asked God to assure me and help me really know if what she had taught me was true.

In response to the WHY:

God told me the truth, or assured me through Faith, so I did what I then knew was right. :)

2. What is your main attraction to your faith?

I define faith as an assurance or the state of being sure of truth that can’t really be seen, and I’m mainly attracted to an assurance from God because I’m sure He’s really knows what is true.

3. What do you think that Evangelicals believe about Christianity? God/Jesus/Salvation/Bible)

I know there’s a lot more in what they believe than what I can say in a few words, but suffice it to say that there’s a very big difference in what we believe to be true.

For instance, God, to them, is only one being that somehow consists of 3 persons, and while we (LDS) know the somehow of that, we all don’t agree on that issue.

4. What do you think are the serious differences between Mormonism and Christianity? Why?

In response to the WHAT:

The nature of God; the nature of Man; who has authority from God. And our idea of God’s heaven being more than one kingdom, though we’ll still be one on some issues.

In response to the WHY:

We all lack some faith or an assurance from God of ALL that God knows to be true, and once we all know there are things we don’t know, maybe then we will ask Him what’s true.

5. Briefly, what are your views regarding: a)Highest Source/Authority (writings, leaders, etc), b)God, c)Jesus, d)Spirits, e)Humans, f)Salvation, g)Church/God's People, h)Future/Afterlife

A: In my view, my highest source of authority is God and those who I know are one with God, and the way I can see who is really one with God is the way God assures me of truth.

B: In my view, I’ll praise God forever for all God has helped me to do, and when I see God I’ll have grown to be like Him and know I am still trying too.

C: Jesus and my Father are one, and they both help me see that is true, and I know when I see them they’ll both say “Well done”, or “What was I trying to do???”

D: Spirits are what we have in us, and what will go on when we die, and though we can sense them we can’t really see them, unless God “somehow” opens our eyes. :)

E: Each human is a child of our Father, either male or female in gender, and while some of us think this seems odd, we can know if we’re not a pretender.

F: Salvation is the state of being saved, and infers we need saving from something, and if some do not know that they are, in fact, lost, then they don’t know where salvation could lead them.

G: Church/God’s People is one organized group that knows God is really our Shepherd, and a Shepherd is someone who others will follow, and those that don’t follow aren’t His.

H: Future/ Afterlife is a term for what happens when what happens is happening then, and tomorrow will happen even if not expected and it won’t really matter much when.

6. Do you now, or have you ever had any doubts about Mormonism? If so, what are those doubts, and why?

I didn’t always know “Mormonism” was true, and then I didn’t doubt I didn’t know, and ever since I found out “Mormonism” is true, I’ve never had a doubt that I know. N/A.

7. Do you have assurance of salvation?

Right now my answer is Yes. And I have this assurance knowing I will be saved as long as I “endure to the end”.

Thank you so much for your time and thoughts on this! I'm truly appreciative for your help in giving me an unscripted look at the foundation in which you rest your faith!

Blessings, Brett

Heh, no problem, Brett. I now have this saved for other occasions like this one. It won't be long before someone else asks again.

[mdb]

Not an answer to your questions, but a comment in general...

But we are all like an unclean thing,

And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags;

We all fade as a leaf,

And our iniquities, like the wind,

Have taken us away.

(Is 64:6)

All we like sheep have gone astray;

We have turned, every one, to his own way;

And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

(Is 53:6)

For you were like sheep going astray, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

(1 Pet 2:25)

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

(Rom 3:23)

Salvation is not of works, but by faith alone. None are worthy, can earn, or persuade God. It is not a matter of keeping our end of the bargain in hope that God will keep His. God draws us near, He calls us, it's His grace. The fruit in our lives is a proof of the transformation done in our hearts - the fruits of the Spirit of God who dwells in those that believe. Good works are a product of our salvation, not the other way around. If you still strive and live by the law rather than for Christ who fulfilled the law, you have never entered His rest. His burden is easy and His yoke is light.

[lisajo]

Oh Hummmmmmmmm Here we go again! I am starting to feel like an experment or some test project. Our church has a web site!

[Dr T]

Lisajo,

You spoke out of turn in this randomized clinical trial. What the scribes have written down in your transcript will be deleted from the record. Before you speak, make sure the other subjects are not scheduled first!...

Dr. T

[rosie321]

But we are all like an unclean thing,

And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags;

We all fade as a leaf,

And our iniquities, like the wind,

Have taken us away.

(Is 64:6)

All we like sheep have gone astray;

We have turned, every one, to his own way;

And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

(Is 53:6)

For you were like sheep going astray, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

(1 Pet 2:25)

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

(Rom 3:23)

Salvation is not of works, but by faith alone. None are worthy, can earn, or persuade God. It is not a matter of keeping our end of the bargain in hope that God will keep His. God draws us near, He calls us, it's His grace. The fruit in our lives is a proof of the transformation done in our hearts - the fruits of the Spirit of God who dwells in those that believe. Good works are a product of our salvation, not the other way around. If you still strive and live by the law rather than for Christ who fulfilled the law, you have never entered His rest. His burden is easy and His yoke is light.

We believe too that all have fallen short and stand in need of repentence. Even after the moment of our first decision or conversion to the gospel we will still make mistakes. We need to continually repent and thereby cleansing ourself from the sins that do so easily beset us. It's not a one time thing. Every time we sin we deny Christ. Refer to 1st , 2nd and 3rd John.

The latterday scriptures are full of repentence quotes. If you can get a copy of the BOM or look it up on the internet check out Alma Chapter 42. Awesome chapter talking about mercy and justice. Try to find it and read the whole thing. Its too long to write out. But I will write out 42: 29 And now my son I desire that ye should let these things trouble you no more and only let your sins trouble you, with that trouble which shall bring you down unto repentance.

A couple of verses from Mosiah 3

"And moreover I say unto you that there shall be no other name given nor means whereby salvation can come unto the children of men only in and through the name of christ, the Lord onimpotent"

For the natural man is an enemy to God and has been from the fall of Adam and will be forever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of christ the Lord and becometh as a child, submissive, meek , humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to the father." (This is LDS conversion :) )

I agree fully that the fruits of the spirit will begin to be reflected in a follower of Christ. If they are not there or not being developed then the growth is one of the flesh. That is also why I am drawn to the LDS faith. It is a progressive thing. This leads me to believe even more strongly that it is more closely the Will Of God. We can know that we are on the path to salvation but yet also know that it is necessary growth and repentence.. Salvation is not automatically given by saying a few words. The Bible makes that clear. Not every one who cries Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of Heaven. Matthew 25 in as much as you've done it to the least of these you've done it unto me. There were many being cast out there to because they rejected the least of these. But if you are continually growing in the gospel you are developing the fruits of the spirit to much greater levels and appreciation. Faith, patience, peace, joy...love. You understand much more powerfully those fruits of the spirit than just a few word prayer. It goes to your very core. The spirit gives us personal assurances and reminders of eternal hope. Sometimes it seems that its all or nothing. If you have works then no grace/atonement applies. Its a blend of the two.

Once again faith without works is dead. If works had no relevance even the Bible itself would not have so much emphasis on them. It is by grace ye are saved after all that you can do. Following the parent image of God there is a big difference between a child seeking to do bad and one that is striving to do good. Thank goodness God will be the final judge with our mediator being Christ hopefully.

In Doctrine and covenants we are warned to repent so we don't have to suffer as Christ did.

The verses are endless. We are called to repent, trust in Heavenly Fathers will, understand the atonement, and continually seek to do the will of God enduring to the end.

Best wishes as you progress on your path. :)

[Guest ApostleKnight]

If you still strive and live by the law rather than for Christ who fulfilled the law, you have never entered His rest. His burden is easy and His yoke is light.

I see you continue to ignore that "the law" that Christ fulfilled was the Law of Moses. Surprise, surprise. You say we should "live for Christ who fulfilled the law." Isn't living for Christ works? But I thought we don't need to do anything to be saved?

Salvation is not a cheap experience.

Grace doesn't allow us to live as we please, but to live as God pleases.

Christ didn't bleed from every pore so I could coast back to God's side.

[lisajo]

Lisajo,

You spoke out of turn in this randomized clinical trial. What the scribes have written down in your transcript will be deleted from the record. Before you speak, make sure the other subjects are not scheduled first!...

Dr. T

OPPPPPPS Please not electric shock

[Dr T]

LOL

[Christos]

1. How/why did you become a believer of Mormonism?

I'm not . Though I did spend about 4 months in the church.

2. What is your main attraction to your faith?

Beauty, age and a firm foundation on doctrine.

3. What do you think that Evangelicals believe about Christianity? (God/Jesus/Salvation/Bible)

I would rather not judge other persons. I do however believe that since finding Orthodoxy I have found a "fullness" of Christianity which was never filled with either Protestant, LDS or the Roman churches.

4. What do you think are the serious differences between Mormonism and Christianity? Why?

The LDS do not accept the basic statement of faith which was settled in 385AD and first conceived in 325AD. The Nicene Creed.

Their ideas about a three tiered heaven which is a strange interpretation of a quite explicit depiction by Paul on the difference between the saints.

Their trinitarian views.

Their view that the word is more than just bible.

Eternal Marriage.

They accept Joseph Smith as a prophet and believe that they will face Jesus, Father and Him at Judgement.

That the LDS believe that the Father has a physical being .

5. Briefly, what are your views regarding: a)Highest Source/Authority (writings, leaders, etc), b)God, c)Jesus, d)Spirits, e)Humans, f)Salvation, g)Church/God's People, h)Future/Afterlife

a) There is no authority but God.

B) God is one, universal. God is three co-existant essences. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. All parts of the trinity are of one essence, consubstantial.

c) Jesus is God incarnate. He was born of the ever virgin Mary, conceived by the Holy Spirit. Jesus came to fulfill the prophecies, and to save mankind through his perfect, immaculate sacrafice.

d) Spirits? Dangerous word! If you are referring to the Heavenly Host, that is too big to discuss.

e) Humans are fallen beings. Created in the image of God, this means, perfect, not, big white beard and pink nightgown as Michelangelo depicted him (I wonder if Michelangelo realised how much trouble he would cause with that painting ). Marriage is between a man and a woman but it is written that there shall be no marriage in heaven. When man is resurrected at the last judgement, the church (the communium of the saints) shall become the "bride of Christ".

f) Through our Lord Jesus Christ, by the mercy of God.

g) Woah! Huge subject! The church is the communium of the saints. That is, anyone who is baptised in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. However, baptism is not necessary for salvation, the mercy of God is. As I said, huge topic.

h) Heaven. Revelations paints a nice picture . (again, huge topic, I am too tired to write my usual 4000 word essays this morning )

6. Do you now, or have you ever had any doubts about Mormonism? If so, what are those doubts, and why?

I don't believe it is good for me to answer that. When I found the Orthodox church I knew "this is home".

7. Do you have assurance of salvation?

This is the same as saying "are you saved".

To which I use the continous present, "I trust that by the grace of God I am being saved".

It is possible to fall away.

Daily prayers and bible reading help keeps me focused on God and thus on salvation. Saying that, I haven't said my morning prayers yet . I'll be back in about an hour

[Princess3dward]

B) God is one, universal. God is three co-existant essences. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. All parts of the trinity are of one essence, consubstantial.

c) Jesus is God incarnate. He was born of the ever virgin Mary, conceived by the Holy Spirit. Jesus came to fulfill the prophecies, and to save mankind through his perfect, immaculate sacrafice.

You believe in the trinity?

That makes no sense though!

Didn't you read the story where Jesus got baptised?

He was there as all three! THAT IS NUTS!

He also never says they are one. He is always stating the oppisite!

They are always saying, "Thou art the Son of God" like in Mark 3:11,

And Jesus says this: "I assend unto my Father, and your Father; and my God, and your God."

That was John 20:17.

There are more calling him the Son of God, and of Him saying He is sent from the Father...

but I would have to quote the whole bible. (Even when I was chatholic and was force fet such things, they never made sense!

[Dr T]

Hi Des,

You misunderstand the concept of the Trinity. Maybe this diagram can help you:

Dr. T

[Princess3dward]

No... you confused me more...

The trinity states (and correct me PLEASE if I am wrong) that the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost are one and the same... were I, as LDS, believe that they are one in PURPOSE.

I don't get the diagram, because it contradicts itself.. :S

[rosie321]

DT I'm pretyy sure I understand your diagram and what it is getting at. But then again some of the directions with pictures just confuse the heck out of me. So for the thinking impaired can you please explain the is and is nots to make sure it is understood the way you meant it to be?

I'm used to the Shamrock theory (ever see Nun's on the Run?) or the egg parts explanation being used to describe the 3in1 trinity. I've never seen this one before

[mdb]

rosie321,

We need to continually repent and thereby cleansing ourself from the sins that do so easily beset us. It's not a one time thing. Every time we sin we deny Christ. Refer to 1st , 2nd and 3rd John.

There was a man who out of anger committed a sin. On the way back to his home he fell into a pit and died, without opportunity to repent. This man was a believer, saved by grace. Because he had not repented of the sin he committed before his untimely death, did he go to heaven or lose his salvation?

Apostleknight,

Salvation is not a cheap experience.

I agree. The Scriptures say that we should not use God's grace as an opportinuty to sin.

What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

(Rom 6:15)

For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

(Jude 4)

[Dr T]

Hello Desire & Rosie and all,

No, Des, what you described is a heresy called Sebelism. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are not one person. Others use another heresy called modelism thinking that God started out as the Father, became the Son and then became the H.S. This is also not an accurate representation of the Trinity. The Trinity says that there is one God. That one God is essentially three personages (Father, Son & Holy Spirit). Your reaction that "That doesn't make sense" when using Jesus' baptism is accurate if you hold that they are the same person. But as I tried to show above, that is not what the Trinity is.

Have to run.

Dr. T

[Princess3dward]

Hello Desire & Rosie and all,

No, Des, what you described is a heresy called Sebelism. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are not one person. Others use another heresy called modelism thinking that God started out as the Father, became the Son and then became the H.S. This is also not an accurate representation of the Trinity. The Trinity says that there is one God. That one God is essentially three personages (Father, Son & Holy Spirit). Your reaction that "That doesn't make sense" when using Jesus' baptism is accurate if you hold that they are the same person. But as I tried to show above, that is not what the Trinity is.

Have to run.

Dr. T

I went to a chatholic school (When I was chatholic) and they told me that Jesus was God's incarnate in the flesh....

but that makes no sense...

Why would I be here?

My understanding is directly linked to Jesus and God and the Holy Ghost being VERY SEPERATE but one in purpose... to get us to return home..

And that Jesus is on the right hand of the Father, and that the Holy Ghost is our guide on earth.

THAT is understandable doctrine, and I believe Jesus spoke plainly to us and that He would not give us anything that would confuse His children..

[mdb]

It is by grace ye are saved after all that you can do.

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. (Eph 2:8)

Do you see the difference? The book of Mormon (2 Neph 25:23) puts a condition on grace where the Holy Bible says there is nothing of ourselves that we can do aside from the grace of God that will save us. For a man to say, "I did this or that and gained my salvation" after "all that I did," brings pride and boasting. We can do nothing - it is grace and grace alone.

[Princess3dward]

It is by grace ye are saved after all that you can do.

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. (Eph 2:8)

Do you see the difference? The book of Mormon (2 Neph 25:23) puts a condition on grace where the Holy Bible says there is nothing of ourselves that we can do aside from the grace of God that will save us. For a man to say, "I did this or that and gained my salvation" after "all that I did," brings pride and boasting. We can do nothing - it is grace and grace alone.

Ofcourse.

You need to do nothing and you are saved.

Let us ignore the commandments,

because grace alone will save us!

Forget what the prophets say!

Matthew 7:12 says that we have to listen to the prophets,

and we have one today that you ignore.

ALSO faith without works is DEAD!

You need faith in Jesus Christ aswell.

[Ray]

I’m with you, Desire’. That idea of the Trinity doesn’t make sense to me either… and most others I know who believe that. They simply repeat that same idea without really understanding what it means.

Or in other words, most of the people I have ever heard from who have that concept of the Trinity do not and cannot visualize that concept of God… and the only ones I know who can visualize God are those who have our (LDS) concept of God.

BUT… as we say… other people can believe what they want to, because they have that right, just as we have that right.

God bless the US of A.

[Princess3dward]

I am canadian