Six Days Of Creation?!

[JoshuaFKon]

Hello Everyone! :)

I am pleased to announce that I have an answer to prehaps my biggest question! Sorry this is not one of my mormon questions...

Anyway, as I said before, I am also researching Christianity. Now what is the hardest thing about Christianity to believe? That the world was created in six days...all evidence points towards the universe being about 15 billion years old. The usual christian responce is that "a day with the Lord is like a thousand years" But I just don't buy that...I mean #1 talk about taking a verse out of context #2 add six thousand years and you're still about...oh 15 billion years short. Grasping at straws...

So what's the answer?

Well, I was reading an excellent book ("The Science of God" by Gerald L. Schroeder)

And his theory is....I hope I can explain this....

Remember Enstein's thoery of relitivity? that means if you were watching the creation of Earth from...say...a huge plant thousands of times bigger than earth...than 100 years of time on earth would pass in a year of your time.

But what if you were watching the creation of the universe from the perspective of the whole universe? (the only perspective there could be for all of creation)

Well...I can't explain it here without typing the whole chapter of the book, but from that perspcetive 15 billion years (the age of the universe) would take...six days!

Not only that...but the days match up right too!

Day One 15,750,000,000 years ago The creation of light (Gen. 1:1-5) The big bang marks the creation of the universe, light literally breaks free as electrons bond to atomic nuclei;

Day Two 7,750,000,000 years ago The heavenly firmament forms (Gen. 1:6-8) Disk of Milky Way forms; Sun, a main sequence star forms

Day Three 3,750,000,000 years ago Oceans and dry land appear; the first life, plants appear (Gen. 1:9-13 The earth has cool and liquid water appears 3.8 billion years ago followed almost immediately by the first forms of life, bacteria and photosynthetic algae

Day Four 1,750,000,000 years ago Sun, Moon, and stars become visible in heavens (Gen 1:14-19) Earth's Atmoshere becomes transparent; photosynthesis produces oxygen-righ atmosphere

Day Five 750,000,000 years ago First animal life swarms abundantly in water; followed by reptiles and winged animals (Gen. 1:20-23) First multicellular animal; waters swarm with animal life having the basic body plans of all future animals; winged insect apper

Day Six 250,000,000 Land animals; mammals' humankind (Gen. 1:24-31) Massive extinction destroys over 90% of life. Land is repopulated: hominids and then humans

Now I'm not saying I believe in evolution at all....

But isn't that an interesting theroy?

Love to hear what you guys think!

Josh :)

[Princess3dward]

We don't know how long Gods days are!

You know about cobolt?(sp?).

Well, one day for them is 1000 years for is, therefore, we don't know how many earth days it took.

ps. The closest planet to heaven..

[JoshuaFKon]

We don't know how long Gods days are!

You know about cobolt?(sp?).

Well, one day for them is 1000 years for is, therefore, we don't know how many earth days it took.

ps. The closest planet to heaven..

Good Morning Desiré :)

I was under the impression that it was "Kolob"

Personally....I find that theroy.....amussing... (the existance of "kolob" as a planet)......do you believe it is inhabited?

Josh B)

[Dr T]

That is an interesting thought Josh.

One of the difficulties I have with "New Earth Creationism" (NEC) is that we know of stars and the apparent speed of light. We take the calculations of the time it would take the evidence of those stars to reach Earth and they are light years away. I don't like it when people say, "God could have just made them look that far away-they're really not." Anyway. Just some thoughts.

Dr. T

[JoshuaFKon]

That is an interesting thought Josh.

One of the difficulties I have with "New Earth Creationism" (NEC) is that we know of stars and the apparent speed of light. We take the calculations of the time it would take the evidence of those stars to reach Earth and they are light years away. I don't like it when people say, "God could have just made them look that far away-they're really not." Anyway. Just some thoughts.

Dr. T

I completely agree with you Dr. T...

I cannot believe that god would go out of his way to confuse me....I think this makes much more sense!

Josh B)

[Guest ApostleKnight]

I think that God was explaining to Moses (who was not a scientist or astronomer...at least in the beginning) in common terms a complex process. Saying a period of activity was "a day" conveys the idea of a period of time with a beginning and end.

Ever told someone, "I'll be back in a sec." Did you literally mean one second? Or did you mean you'd return in short period of time?

Anyway, I don't think it matters. Either God could create the earth in six 24 hour periods or He can't. I don't believe He did, but again, it's faith vs. evidence. We're talking about a Being who can walk on water, transmute water into wine, heal sickness with a word, raise the dead, etc... and yet...we know the parameters of science He must have used to create the world?

Pffffff, whatever.

Josh, you keep saying 15 billion years. That's the estimated age of the Universe based on Hubble observations of globular cluster M4 (and that actually puts it between 13 and 14 billion years). The creation account in Genesis is--I think--referring merely to planet Earth, not the entire Universe. Of course this gets back to the LDS belief that this isn't the first planet God has created and peopled with His spirit children. Anyway, assuming the creation account is merely about earth's genesis, most scientists estimate its age to be 4.5 billion as here: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-age-of-earth.html

As for the thousand years equals one day to God, that is true from our current perspective in space. But another LDS concept (not doctrine) is that before the Fall of Adam, the earth was near God's abode (probably three doors down from Kolob ) and that after the Fall, the earth was removed to its present position. So the creation account would have been taking place near God, not where the earth is now, which shoots down the "one day=thousand years" theory because that measurement is only accurate from our present position in space in relationship to Kolob (assuming you take the revelations at face value).

So we have no idea how long each "day" was, but the important thing I think is that there were six discrete periods of activity, with a rest from all labor on the seventh. It is the pattern, not the hours and minutes or light years involved in each day, that is important to me.

[Princess3dward]

Personally....I find that theroy.....amussing... (the existance of "kolob" as a planet)......do you believe it is inhabited?

Yes.

So we have no idea how long each "day" was, but the important thing I think is that there were six discrete periods of activity, with a rest from all labor on the seventh. It is the pattern, not the hours and minutes or light years involved in each day, that is important to me.

You explained the whole thing so well, but this last part feels most important to me!

Thanx AK!!!

[Guest ApostleKnight]

My pleasure Desire.

[Maureen]

...The creation account in Genesis is--I think--referring merely to planet Earth, not the entire Universe.

IMO, the creation account is referring to Earth in relation to the solar system. The Earth turning on its axis (causing night and day) can't be an isolated incident. Without the solar system it would mean nothing.

M.

[Guest ApostleKnight]

I would agree that it relates to our solar system except for one thing.

I mentioned an LDS belief (not doctrine and not universally held) that I agree with, namely, that when our earth was created (before the Fall of Adam) it was near God's abode (if you believe He has a street address). I believe it "fell" from God's presence as did Adam, and came to rest in its present orbit around our particular sun. Which means that "the lights" both greater and lesser mentioned in Genesis did not refer to our Sun and moon but other celestial bodies of light.

However, this is assuming many things which I know are unique to what some LDS believe (like myself) so I hardly expect you to agree.

Barring the above explanation, I agree with Maureen that the creation account would necessarily involves elements of our solar system. I don't think it necessarily involves the genesis of the entire Milky Way galaxy, let alone the Universe as we know it.

[JoshuaFKon]

Barring the above explanation, I agree with Maureen that the creation account would necessarily involves elements of our solar system. I don't think it necessarily involves the genesis of the entire Milky Way galaxy, let alone the Universe as we know it.

I'm not saying Its "true" or even that I believe it (although I am begining to) Just that it's an interestnig theory.

But as for the Bible refering to more than just the earth

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." What are "the heavens"

besides, don't you think its interesting that from the standpoint of the whole universe, 15 billion years would be six days? coincidence?

Josh B)

P.S.

FARMS apperently doesn't agree with you Desiré,

"You suggest that Mormons believe that Kolob is a habitable planet when, in fact, LDS scriptures say no such thing. This being true, even if "the Mormon Kolob is an impossibly inhospitable place for life," there is no point in all you write. Indeed, Kolob is probably not a "planet" in our 20th-century sense at all. One of the passages you quote (Abraham 3:16) says it is "the greatest of all the Kokaubeam." Since this is the Hebrew word meaning "stars," it is obvious that it is not what we would call a "planet." Besides, LDS scriptures never call it a "planet," so your piece is mistitled. In Abraham 3:9 and in the explanation to Figure 2 of Facsimile 2, it is said to govern some planets, which is precisely what stars do--when they have planets, at least. You also fail to note that the ancients used the term "planet" in a very loose sense to refer to a celestial body, and sometimes employed it for the sun, which is what we find in the explanation to Figure 5 of Facsimile 2. How modern astronomers use the term is irrelevant when we are talking about an ancient document."

http://www.shields-research.org/Critics/Kolobjat.htm

[Maureen]

...it is obvious that it is not what we would call a "planet."...

Just ask Pluto... !

M.

[Princess3dward]

FARMS apperently doesn't agree with you Desiré,

"You suggest that Mormons believe that Kolob is a habitable planet when, in fact, LDS scriptures say no such thing. This being true, even if "the Mormon Kolob is an impossibly inhospitable place for life," there is no point in all you write. Indeed, Kolob is probably not a "planet" in our 20th-century sense at all. One of the passages you quote (Abraham 3:16) says it is "the greatest of all the Kokaubeam." Since this is the Hebrew word meaning "stars," it is obvious that it is not what we would call a "planet." Besides, LDS scriptures never call it a "planet," so your piece is mistitled. In Abraham 3:9 and in the explanation to Figure 2 of Facsimile 2, it is said to govern some planets, which is precisely what stars do--when they have planets, at least. You also fail to note that the ancients used the term "planet" in a very loose sense to refer to a celestial body, and sometimes employed it for the sun, which is what we find in the explanation to Figure 5 of Facsimile 2. How modern astronomers use the term is irrelevant when we are talking about an ancient document."

Yeesh. Sorry.

<div class='quotemain'>

...it is obvious that it is not what we would call a "planet."...

Just ask Pluto... !

M.

Poor Pluto...

[Dr T]

LOL

[Latter Days Guy]

Kolob a planet? I think that someone has been watching to much Battlestar Galactica B)

[Princess3dward]

Kolob a planet? I think that someone has been watching to much Battlestar Galactica B)

I apologized already for that..

I don't have a tv.. so I have no clue what you are talking about....

[JoshuaFKon]

I don't have a tv.. so I have no clue what you are talking about....

I feel your pain Desiré...I spent much of my life without a TV...but we just got cable this month! (I still like books better though...)

As for Battlestar Galactica, its a tv show about humans on other worlds...I won't go into the whole plot but their 'gods' are the 'lords of Kobol'...many people believe this is a reference to the Mormon "Kolob" planet of the gods.

Josh B)

[Princess3dward]

Really? That seems a little weird to me.. not the people on the other worlds though.... :)

[JoshuaFKon]

Really? That seems a little weird to me.. not the people on the other worlds though.... :)

It's really an interesting series...

Josh B)

"As written fiction, Kobol is an anagram of the Mormon "Kolob", a celestial body named in the Book of Abraham and identified as being near the home or origin of God. Many connections between Mormon beliefs and the story of the original Battlestar Galactica have been pointed out by observant fans. Glen A. Larson, the writer of the original series, is himself a Mormon and articulated some of his religious beliefs through this science fiction metaphor. "Kobol" and its name is part of the mythopoetic fabric of "Battlestar Galactica" that borrows from theology. The Mormon hymn If you could hie to Kolob touches on themes related both to the original and the reimagined series."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobol

[Princess3dward]

Intresting..... I don't like sifi.

[JoshuaFKon]

Intresting..... I don't like sifi.

no?! what about Star Wars? everybody likes Star Wars

Josh B)

[Princess3dward]

<div class='quotemain'>

Intresting..... I don't like sifi.

no?! what about Star Wars? everybody likes Star Wars

Josh B)

I was forced to watch them all... some more than once.... I do NOT like Star Wars...

[JoshuaFKon]

I was forced to watch them all... some more than once.... I do NOT like Star Wars...

Josh

[Princess3dward]

I can NOT believe you are shocked about that!

[JoshuaFKon]

I can NOT believe you are shocked about that!

I remember when I was little one of my concerns was that the rapture would happen before all the Star Wars movies came out.....

Josh B)