Temple Ordinances & Jesus

[Princess3dward]

Jesus isn't God!

[JoshuaFKon]

Jesus isn't God!

How did He become a god....on the other thread you said they were all gods...

Josh B)

[Princess3dward]

No I did not!

Copy and paste it and I will correct it!

[LionHeart]

His job wasn't just to live the perfect life, He had a much bigger purpose.

He doesn't need to get married!

Allow me to explain the bigger picture:

God the Father, was once a man. He earned His salvation on another world by submitting Himself to the laws His Father in Heaven laid out for Him. When He attained to a state of Godhood, He was still subject to those laws His Father in Heaven laid out for Him; and likewise His "GrandFather" in Heaven, and on up into eternity. Meaning all Gods are subject to the laws of Heaven. Our Father in Heaven, upon attaining to a state of Godhood, began to produce offspring; "spirit chidren". The first of which is Jesus Christ; and all of us were born afterwards. Jesus, because He kept His first estate more perfectly than the rest of us, was given this world; as His Father has many more worlds than just this one.

So our times to come here were alotted us, as well as Jesus' time. So Jesus, being responsible for this world, and out of His great love for his younger brothers and sisters, could see that a price was going to be required in order that we would all have the opportunity for salvation. Thus, He stepped in to pay that price. Keep in mind, all of this took place before this world was even created. He would have come to this Earth and recieved a body whether He volunteered to be our Saviour or not. His willingness to pay that price did not, by any means, releive Him of any obligations to abide by the laws of Heaven; but only increased the need for Him to abide by those laws even more perfect than ever. Just the same as a police officer is held to a higher standard when it comes to abiding by civil laws.

I hope this helps you to better understand my point of view.

L.H.

[JoshuaFKon]

<div class='quotemain'>

His job wasn't just to live the perfect life, He had a much bigger purpose.

He doesn't need to get married!

Allow me to explain the bigger picture:

God the Father, was once a man. He earned His salvation on another world by submitting Himself to the laws His Father in Heaven laid out for Him. When He attained to a state of Godhood, He was still subject to those laws His Father in Heaven laid out for Him; and likewise His "GrandFather" in Heaven, and on up into eternity. Meaning all Gods are subject to the laws of Heaven. Our Father in Heaven, upon attaining to a state of Godhood, began to produce offspring; "spirit chidren". The first of which is Jesus Christ; and all of us were born afterwards. Jesus, because He kept His first estate more perfectly than the rest of us, was given this world; as His Father has many more worlds than just this one.

So our times to come here were alotted us, as well as Jesus' time. So Jesus, being responsible for this world, and out of His great love for his younger brothers and sisters, could see that a price was going to be required in order that we would all have the opportunity for salvation. Thus, He stepped in to pay that price. Keep in mind, all of this took place before this world was even created. He would have come to this Earth and recieved a body whether He volunteered to be our Saviour or not. His willingness to pay that price did not, by any means, releive Him of any obligations to abide by the laws of Heaven; but only increased the need for Him to abide by those laws even more perfect than ever. Just the same as a police officer is held to a higher standard when it comes to abiding by civil laws.

I hope this helps you to better understand my point of view.

L.H.

So your saying....Jesus is not a God?

He is going to be a God someday...but as for now...He's just God's son...(like me)

Josh B)

[LionHeart]

So your saying....Jesus is not a God?

He is going to be a God someday...but as for now...He's just God's son...(like me)

Josh B)

No, because the perfection in which He kept His first estate, earned Him the position of Godhood over this world. He is still acting within His Father's family. And if we are faithful enough in living the laws of God, we too will assist in the "winding up scene" of this world. And once this world has completed it's course, Jesus and all the others who were faithful unto the end, will move on to begin their own Heavenly families, and acquire worlds of their own, and be Gods of their own familes and worlds. But they will always be subject to the laws of Heaven.

L.H.

[JoshuaFKon]

No, because the perfection in which He kept His first estate, earned Him the position of Godhood over this world. He is still acting within His Father's family. And if we are faithful enough in living the laws of God, we too will assist in the "winding up scene" of this world. And once this world has completed it's course, Jesus and all the others who were faithful unto the end, will move on to begin their own Heavenly families, and acquire worlds of their own, and be Gods of their own familes and worlds. But they will always be subject to the laws of Heaven.

L.H.

What is this "first estate" was in on a different planet?

Josh B)

[LionHeart]

What is this "first estate" was in on a different planet?

Josh B)

Our first estate took place in our pre-mortal existence. As we all know, Lucifer aspired to the position of Savior of this world, but his plan was rejected. Therefore, he rebelled against the Almighty and led away a part our Father's children. All of those who followed after Lucifer, were never permitted to come to this Earth and recieve a body. All those who followed after our Father in Heaven were. But there were many degrees in the faithfulness in which people followed after the Lord. This is our first estate, and how perfectly we kept it. Jesus was more faithful in Following after our Heavenly Father than anyone else, therefore He kept His first estate more perfectly.

L.H.

[JoshuaFKon]

Our first estate took place in our pre-mortal existence. As we all know, Lucifer aspired to the position of Savior of this world, but his plan was rejected. Therefore, he rebelled against the Almighty and led away a part our Father's children. All of those who followed after Lucifer, were never permitted to come to this Earth and recieve a body. All those who followed after our Father in Heaven were. But there were many degrees in the faithfulness in which people followed after the Lord. This is our first estate, and how perfectly we kept it. Jesus was more faithful in Following after our Heavenly Father than anyone else, therefore He kept His first estate more perfectly.

L.H.

I was under the impression that to "become a god" you needed to preform certain temple ceromonies that would require a body, and a temple...How did Jesus become a "god" in "pre-mortal existence" without preforming these, if that is true?

Josh B)

[Dr T]

THank you all for your thoughts so far. I would love to read the Da Vinci Code thread. I'll look for it later. I am not trying to set a trap with this question. Thank you for understanding :) I am trying to understand if it makes sense or not-that's all.

Thanks again,

Dr. T

[LionHeart]

Our first estate took place in our pre-mortal existence. As we all know, Lucifer aspired to the position of Savior of this world, but his plan was rejected. Therefore, he rebelled against the Almighty and led away a part our Father's children. All of those who followed after Lucifer, were never permitted to come to this Earth and recieve a body. All those who followed after our Father in Heaven were. But there were many degrees in the faithfulness in which people followed after the Lord. This is our first estate, and how perfectly we kept it. Jesus was more faithful in Following after our Heavenly Father than anyone else, therefore He kept His first estate more perfectly.

L.H.

I was under the impression that to "become a god" you needed to preform certain temple ceromonies that would require a body, and a temple...How did Jesus become a "god" in "pre-mortal existence" without preforming these, if that is true?

Josh B)

He did not become a God in it's fulness but a God so far as this world is concerned. The difference being that he reigns over this world only; taking care of it for His Father. This is the result of keeping His first estate so perfectly. If He was a God in it's fulness, He would have many worlds, and possibly a different Son to assist in taking care of each one of them. But that will take place only when this world has completed it's course.

L.H.

[Dr T]

Wow. I started typing my last response, didn't finish and went to grab a bit to eat. I looked at L.H.'s last post and there was a lot of stuff that want there when I posted my last message. So, if I'm hearing you correctly L.H., Jesus is not fully God like the father. Is he a lesser god? When He does move on to his own world, what will happen to his atonment? Does it still count for all people or do the people born after he leaves for his own world not get that benefit? I'm getting confused L.H. You are bringing up a lot of questions for me.

Thank you,

Dr. T

[JoshuaFKon]

He did not become a God in it's fulness but a God so far as this world is concerned. The difference being that he reigns over this world only; taking care of it for His Father. This is the result of keeping His first estate so perfectly. If He was a God in it's fulness, He would have many worlds, and possibly a different Son to assist in taking care of each one of them. But that will take place only when this world has completed it's course.

L.H.

So to complete His...becoming a God...He did the temple ceromonies on earth...or he will do them during the 1000 year reign?

Why did Jesus get to make his choice in "pre-mortal existance" but we have to choose without the memory of heaven during our lifetime here on earth?

Josh B)

[LionHeart]

Wow. I started typing my last response, didn't finish and went to grab a bit to eat. I looked at L.H.'s last post and there was a lot of stuff that want there when I posted my last message. So, if I'm hearing you correctly L.H., Jesus is not fully God like the father. Is he a lesser god? When He does move on to his own world, what will happen to his atonment? Does it still count for all people or do the people born after he leaves for his own world not get that benefit? I'm getting confused L.H. You are bringing up a lot of questions for me.

Thank you,

Dr. T

I'm sorry for the confusion. The Heavens operate on a patriarchal system. In other words, we are subject to our Father in Heaven. And He, in turn is subject to His Father in Heaven. We are not, however, subject to our Uncle in Heaven; as He would be stepping on the toes of our Father in Heaven. The glory of God is directly proportional to His family. In other words, if we live worthy of the Celestial Kingdom, we actually add to the Glory of our Father in Heaven; because we will be permitted to have our own children; thus expanding His family. This is the purpose for the commandment "Honor thy father and thy mother." Which brings up the question: How old do we become before we are no longer subject to this commandment? The answer of course is: Never will we be too old. And since there are literally trillions of us, the patriarchal order extends to the realms of this world. In other words, we will be subject to our earthly parents in the afterlife as well; assuming they lived worthily. If not, we become subject to the next worthy patriarch. Hence the LDS belief that families are eternal.

Jesus has attained to the state of full Godhood so far as His children are concerned; as they are subject unto Him. We are also subject unto Him because our Father in Heaven has placed Him in that position. Hence the saying "Respect your elders." And I imagine we will always regard Him in that capacity. But His atonement will last throughout the course of this world; thus encompassing all who are born into this world; but our appreciation for it, and the effects of it, will last forever.

This world has been allotted a certain amount of time. Eventually it will have run it's course; also known as "the winding up scene"; at which point, life as we know it on this world will cease. The wicked will be destroyed, and the righteous will be taken to Heaven in the same manner as the city of Zion was taken from the Earth. Following this time, all souls who did not commit the sin against the Holy Ghost, will come forth in the second resurrection. All those who lived worthy of a first resurrection will already have recieved that and will be assisting in the winding up scene. Once it is finished, everyone will move on to their respective exaltation. Those who lived worthy of attaining to Godhood will have came forth in the first resurrection and already have started a family; Jesus included. However, everyone must wait until this world has run it's course to offer assistance to their heavenly family before they can go out and acquire their own worlds. However, they can begin preparing a population for their worlds as soon as they come forth in the first resurrection.

L.H.

[JoshuaFKon]

In other words, we will be subject to our earthly parents in the afterlife as well;

AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

(just kidding)

But what about my question!

Josh B)

[LionHeart]

So to complete His...becoming a God...He did the temple ceromonies on earth...or he will do them during the 1000 year reign?

Why did Jesus get to make his choice in "pre-mortal existance" but we have to choose without the memory of heaven during our lifetime here on earth?

Josh B)

He would have had to do His "temple ceremonies" on Earth; otherwise he could not have recieved a resurrection. However, like John Taylor said, it is not the place of the ordinance that matters, but the ordinance itself. In other words, it did not nessecarily have to take place in a temple. But the fact that He insisted on being baptized should be proof enough that He knew He needed to fit in with the laws.

Jesus was able to make His choice in the pre-mortal existence just the same as we were. We carry our pre-mortal character with us when we come to this Earth. Ever notice how two different newborn babies can have two entirely different personalities? They have not yet been influenced by any worldly traditions yet so why are they so different? It's because they brought their pre-mortal character with them. How well we do in this life (our second estate) depends alot on how well we did in keeping our first estate. You can tell them apart by how well they do. For example, Abraham must have kept his first estate very well because he also kept his second estate very well. It was in his character. The saviour kept His first estate perfectly, and therefore kept His second estate perfectly. It was in His character as well. The ones who kept their first estate well enough are also referred to as "The Noble and Great Ones" These spirits assisted in the creation of this world and were also assigned to carry out certain tasks here on this earth.

So one might ask: what then is the purpose for coming here if keeping the first estate well means someone is going to do well in keeping their second estate? The answer is this: First of all, we came here to recieve a body. The things we can accomplish are greatly limited for a spirit. Secondly, this is the ultimate test. Take king David for example: He was loved by the Lord very much. He had great faith in the Lord all of his life. By this, it is evident that he kept his first estate very well; and yet in spite of his greatness of character, he still gave into temptation and failed to make the highest kingdom. And for others who kept their first estate only on a mediocre level, still have the opportunity to develope their character. So for these people, it might be a little harder to tell how well they are going to do.

L.H.

[JoshuaFKon]

So you are saying He fullfilled all the temple ceromonies while on earth?

What does that entail exactly? (for Him to become a god) Baptism...?

Josh B)

[LionHeart]

So you are saying He fullfilled all the temple ceromonies while on earth?

What does that entail exactly? (for Him to become a god) Baptism...?

Josh B)

Baptism, and celestail marriage. Baptism because this signifies that you are willing to make the covenant that you will live the laws of God. And celestail marriage because there are things a man learns after marriage that He cannot learn anywhere else. A marriage can be, and is a test in and of itself. But it is an abomination to the Lord for people to co-habit with whoever they feel like and spread their seed unscrupulously. Therefore, there are covenants made between man and wife.

L.H.

[JoshuaFKon]

What evidence do your present for Jesus being married?

Josh B)

[Princess3dward]

What evidence do your present for Jesus being married?

Josh B)

Jesus isn't married, so there really isn't any.

[JoshuaFKon]

Jesus isn't married, so there really isn't any.

You didn't read all the posts did you?

Josh B) ....(but thanks for making my arugement)

[LionHeart]

What evidence do your present for Jesus being married?

Josh B)

The evidence I have is not very strong evidence, but can be found on post #33 of this thread. However, like Dr.T said: "I fail to see the connection." However, one must take into consideration the fact that, like was mentioned in the movie 'The DaVinci Code' the evidence that Jesus was married would destroy the common Christian religion because it would lead one to believe that Jesus was merely a man. This should not affect LDS belief because they believe that anyway. But assuming this information would have attacked the core of Christianity, it would not be surprising that the men who compiled the Bible would have left this information out.

So as far as my supportive evidence goes, it is weak at best. My strongest argument is that assuming LDS theology is true, one must draw the conclusion that Jesus was married.

L.H.

[JoshuaFKon]

Ok LionHeart,

I don't agree with you (probably because I don't accept the Book of Mormon or the Pearl of Gerat Price as true)

I also think the that the "eternal progression" theory, is in direct confilict with the..."There is only one God" verses throughout the Bible.

(where do you think the first God came from?)

I don't agree with you, but I think I understand what you think better now. (Desiré still confuses my though )

Thank you very much for all you help, and your time. :)

Josh B)

[LionHeart]

Ok LionHeart,

I don't agree with you (probably because I don't accept the Book of Mormon or the Pearl of Gerat Price as true)

I also think the that the "eternal progression" theory, is in direct confilict with the..."There is only one God" verses throughout the Bible.

(where do you think the first God came from?)

I don't agree with you, but I think I understand what you think better now. (Desiré still confuses my though )

Thank you very much for all you help, and your time. :)

Josh B)

No problem.

L.H.

[Princess3dward]

Jesus isn't married, so there really isn't any.

You didn't read all the posts did you?

Josh B) ....(but thanks for making my arugement)

I don't want to waste my time arguing. It is not like I am being swayed because I didn't see Him and ask him for myself. I know what I know. I don't need to see whatever you think is proof against it to know what I already know. Josh... water is wet. You know that. If I were to sit here and tell you it wasn't wet, you would sit there and laugh at me, because it is.

VERY BLUNTLY!

This gosple is true.

You are saying, "Maybe it isn't", and although I am not laughing.. I am sad for you... this gosple is true.

You may not see it now... and you may not until judgment.. but it is the same thing as water being wet.