Evidence Of Mormonism

[Dr T]

Thanks Nicole. :)

[Nicole]

Your welcome Dr T

[Nicole]

Desiré ok it was nearly 1am in the morning when i asked the questions i was Half a sleep well falling asleep lol

i havent been on this borad in over 2 years due to people keep on fighti ng with each other and people picking on each other and the list goes on!!!!!!!!!! i come here to make friends not to be picked on or to be Judge by the people who are in the same faith as me!!!!!!!!!!!!

i have bad dyslexia,

please give me a break

[Princess3dward]

I was just curious...

I was not saying you were a bad person or anything.

I just pointed it out.

I will try not to say anything next time.

[Nicole]

I was just curious...

I was not saying you were a bad person or anything.

I just pointed it out.

I will try not to say anything next time.

Am sorry

hope u have a good weekend

[Princess3dward]

Thank you... you too...

[Snow]

Stop trying to convince me that I should listen to you and what you are saying.

Okay?

And stop trying to convince me that I should listen to anyone else that you think I should listen to... other than God.

Okay?

I will only learn from God... from what God thinks.

That's a change. Doesn't He usually learn from you Ray?

[Snow]

What is your understanding on this matter Snow? Do you believe the same as Ray stated or one of the other posters?

I'm not really following the topic and I don't have any special knowledge about God's mind

The Book of Mormons seems to say that murder can be forgiven:

"Turn, all ye Gentiles, from your wicked ways; and repent of your evil doings, of your lyings and deceivings, and of your whoredoms, and of your secret abominations, and your idolatries, and of your murders, and your priestcrafts, and your envyings, and your strifes, and from all your wickedness and abominations, and come unto me, and be baptized in my name, that ye may receive a remission of your sins, and be filled with the Holy Ghost, that ye may be numbered with my people who are of the house of Israel." (3 Nephi 30:2)

On the face of it, the Doctrine and Covenants indicates otherwise:

And now, behold, I speak unto the church. Thou shalt not kill; and he that kills shall not have forgiveness in this world, nor in the world to come. (Section 42:18)

I have not studied the matter to understand the seeming contradiction but believe that God can forgive all.

[Dr T]

Thanks for pointing that out Snow. How would someone look into that issue to find out why they conflict? Do you have a good resource for that?

Thanks

[Princess3dward]

I was told that you can't judge what God will and wont forgive..

and that it depends on their hearts...

If they were really sorry... or self defence or whatever...

God is fair...

[Serg]

Thanks Serg,

Isn't there something about when apart from God, there is no way to return in the after life in the Bible? That is a different issue. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit was attributing to evil what was actually from the H.S. and would not be forgive like denying Jesus was.

Dr. T

Dr.T:

Isn't there something about when apart from God, there is no way to return in the after life in the Bible?

No. Only a parable between Lazarus and the rich guy. Such an illustration is directed to the masses, to SEE how crucial it is in THEIR context, the importance of charity. Alma makes a more metaphisicl statement, that of no "other opportunity" when "the night" comes, this is in "the day" of our judgement after we die. This of course, leads to misinterpretation. Jesus said that 'the night" approached, in which "nothing can be done". And yes, such a moment approches. There is two main lines of thinking concerning this topic, that of most lds, and that of other christians. The most popular lds belief, is that the gospel is only (by one chance stuff) preached unto a person in LIFE and if that person does not accept it here, then he wont be allowed in th next(at least, Joseph Fielding Smith taught that). Then, if he repented in the next life, he would have a;ready lost anyways his chances for exaltation. Of course, this is in direct opposition to the Lord's statement in D&C, that the gospel was preached in the next life to the "disobedient" and the "rebeled". Hence, it is yet preached to those who reject it here. Why? Change is possible, as long as reason exists. Change is not permissable though, as long His reason(order of things) exists. That's some motto on the topic. The other christian belief is that plainly after death there is no change available to nobody. This is not rooted in Scripture, but in the LACK of Scripture filled with Tomistic absolutes of the patience of God(Most simple and impassible).That is another story.

Point is, the Lord intended to show the Jews, that they believed in an afterlife that was definitive, mortal life is hence no game. The parable goes acccording to the popular JEWISH belief that There was a place(NOT heaven) in which Abraham reigned, and acomodated the righteouss after their death. Also that there was a "gulf" between the two seemingly geographical spots. But then again, christendom only accepts what it likes. It accepts that there "no one can cross from there to the other side, etc..", but does christendom accept that paradise then, as described by Jesus is a place in which the physical precense of God is NOT? Does it accept that such a heaven is called "the bossom" of Abraham? Does it accept that what only separets God(if they insist on putting His presence there)or the righteouss from the wicked(and the devil if they also insist) is a mere geographical "gulf"? What sort of Gulf? How wide or long is it? A metaphisical gulf? A material one? Lets go to the other teachings there, does christendom accept that the wicked there can be thirsty? Without their body? Or that they can have water over there given to them by the righteouss? Indeed, Abraham did not give him water not because he did'nt have, but because he was'nt allowed!

These sorts of increpancies ara those which christans avoid, boldly asserting that they believe the parable, but only at the extent they like. Which one? The water? the gulf? No, the concept that There is no available change for those who sin after they die. Why? Tomistic theology requires God to be just in every extent(even while being merciful-go figure that out). Then, Dr.T, if most theologies just IGNORE or set as "illustration only" most of the parable's details, why can't mormons accept most of the details there(in fact we do, except for the part of water), and reject the only and solitary idea of no available forgiveness after death? If you will turn this on a mormon-cover up of scripture, you must first ask fellow evangelicals then why do they ignore Ecclesiastes as he states that after "death there is no jusdgement" nor living soul, or thinking capacities? Oh! They will tell you "those are JEWISH conceptions of afterlife". Guess what? We also say that to YOU. We believe there will be a moment of definitive judgment, yes, at the judgement, not before. And judgement comes AFTER the resurection, not while we spend some time (in hell or paradise).

Given this way of thinking, and i know that you are mostly affected or influenced by current protestantism(dont say you are not), your assertions on deuteronomy notion of prophecy, authority and Jesus point ONLY that way, i just wanted to put this first.

That is a different issue.

It is not, as you come to undestand th ewhole point of it. Just meditate for a second, and forget all evangelical advertissement. WHY is it SO important to God(given your way of thinking), that change can only be validated during mortal life?

Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit was attributing to evil what was actually from the H.S. and would not be forgive like denying Jesus was.

No. This is my point. What does it mean to "deny Jesus"? Lets clear that out, as shown in context He's reffering to any attempt or statement concerning His divinity or mission that denies it or puts it as false. Well, if this can be done, indeed, i myself can now just write it(i.e.jesus is not the Son of God), does this imply me denying Jesus? In a grammatical or verbal way, yes. jesus said that this could be done, and WOULD be forgiven. Now think WHY. Cause at least, john in his epistles warn people of "not confessing Jesus in the flesh"(this is, accepting and stating that He si the Son of God) at risk of HELL. But wait a minute, didn't good jesus just told us that it WOULD indeed be forgiven not to confess Him in th eflesh but speak evil of Him? Who is right? Johnny or Yeshua? Ok, its time to call for the evangelicals apologists. Wait, no! Just think it trhough! No need to create something to fill that void.

When we deny Jesus' divine status, not rationally("psykicos"-"natural"men, 1Cor.2) but spiritually "pneumatikos", THEN there is no apparent forgiveness. Why? Cause if you just know rationally of christianity, and assert "nor Jesus did exist, or the Holy Ghost is any god", that is gibberish to God. Because you are not convinced of such a truth, but are just contemplating a historical fact. Hence, you can even(in this way) assert and speak evil of the Holy Ghost Himself(being God), and it will yet be forgiven unto you, because you are not fighting against TRUTH but just denying that tjis particular myth of occidental culture is in and of itself evident or true. Now, when we understand that we can indeed speak evil of truth(without cosidering to be even possibly true) and yet be forgiven, we turn to the other side. What about Jesus' diferentiation of denying Him as "diferent' of denying the Holy Ghost? Is the Holy Ghost more powerful than Jesus? Does He deserve some special consideration? Is He more benign? No!No!No!, This is Jesus' logic while he spoke:

Please, hear people! I am now preaching to you, you may not recognize who i am, you obviously dont even remember who each of you are(have beeen) in eternity past, but i got a messsage. You may say anything against me(as you listen to me, but indeed dont understand spiritually-hence dont feel he's truth), (this is, saying anything against Jesus in a rational way, is sayng anything agaist the Godhead entirely, for they are three of same requisits and glory), but please! dont speak evil of the holy Ghost(not as a person, but as He's way of showing you the truth, and the truth He may reveal while ratioanlly you are listening to me), because the Holy Ghost(this is, His mission, "Truth revealed from above") is Holy, and every word spoke against me(or any member of the Godheas-separately-and rationally) will be forgiven(because it is gibberish! you would be speaking of what you do not know!) but any word against(blasphemy) against the Holy Ghost(again, Truth revealed by GOD) will not be forgiven..."

You see? The sin here, is not just to verbally say evil of the Holy Ghost as a personage, that sort of blasphemy is not considered here. if it were so, then anybody(be it christian or non-) who say "the Holy Ghost is not God, is evil and serves the mediocre need of human frailty to trust as he encounters himself in a hostile-all naturalenviorment" would automatically be damned. is this so? Not in any christian thought. How many pastors dont bragg that before they coverted they spoke evil of the Lord and mocked the holy Spirit doings in believers? And yet there they are, preaching as leaders! So then, the blasphemy here consists not in verbally acusing as gibberisg a separate member of the Godhead, but to deny any one TRUTH revealed by the Holy Ghost(i.e.God) to th eheart of a person.

Because the truth revealed by God is so powerful and clear, you are then, not taken by God as ignorant(after that), but as a person who KNOWS inspite of all material impossibilities and agnosticism. From that point onward, you can either submit to god's will(because NOW you KNOW it-didnt just hear it from jesus' lips) or deny it(willingly) and fight it. How do we deny such a truth? Although i believe that most antimormons are just ignorant people, good people that fell under the disappointment of dicovering mistakes of men in a Church conducted my such, i believe that to "deny' and "still oppose" the lord's truth, requires that you willingly do not want any part with God. Although unconcivable, is true. Who would not want to be with God? Persons! A lot of them. If angels such as lucipher willingly opposed God, what else expect from human frailty? So then we conclude, that to deny and oppose God, it requires that God reveal it to you through His means(i.e.Holy Ghost) so you have no excuse of agnosticism, ad willingfully decide, "hey, i know, but i dont wnat to go with you", as irrational that may seem.

Hence, while at it, we touch the nature of "unforgiveness" in the issue, how far unforgivable? Well, that i already explained.

I do not know God's mind, my resources are short to even guess His glorious ways of rationale, but any explanation that does not suffice the mormon interpretation of this concept, falls short , not only in logic but in metaphisical concepts.

regards,

[Dr T]

Greeting Serg, :)

Thank you for your thoughtful post. Sir, I'd like to let you know that I appreciate your passion and sincerity in that post. I would also like to point out to you that in reading that post, I felt like you were trying to put words into my mouth that come from your myriad assumptions. There is a lot of information to discuss in that post. I hope to have time later this week to address them. For now, briefly, you imply a inconsistency in Christianity and the supposed "Tomastic theology"[sic] and my "deuteronomy notion of prophecy" [sic] (whatever you meant by that). That is the 2nd time you have said that so I presume it is an important issue for you. If you tell me what you mean by that maybe I can clarify. This can be a very fun topic of discussion. You say that the only biblical support for not having a chance to accept Christ was talked about in a parable. That might be true. I will spend some time racking my brain to see if I can pull something up that suggests otherwise. I know the Catholic church has the purgatory belief and I'm sure they get it from somewhere but I've never looked into it. Maybe we should take this to a new thread?

Thank you, Serg.

Dr. T

[Ray]

… or to put this truth in other words …

The sin against the Holy Ghost is the sin of denying what the Holy Ghost tells you, which can never be forgiven while you continue to deny that what the Holy Ghost tells you is really the truth.

Or in other words…

When a person sins against the Holy Ghost by denying what the Holy Ghost tells them… and in denying the Holy Ghost are pretty much saying that what the Holy Ghost tells them isn’t true… they can’t be forgiven for that sin because they’ve denied what the Holy Ghost told them is true.

Or in other words…

Our Lord can’t just forgive people who deny what the Holy Ghost tells them because our Lord’s forgiveness can’t just nullify the fact that those people are still denying what the Holy Ghost tells them is true, which is or would be in agreement with what our Lord would tell them is really the truth.

Or in other words…

First: try to imagine how you or I or anyone else would ever be able to know what is true.

Think about that for a while.

Can you know the truth by simply believing whatever you see with your own eyes? Many people saw our Lord Jesus and really didn’t know who He was. What if you had been one of them? What if you had seen all of His miracles? Would YOU have really known then? Many did see, they saw all of that, but they still didn’t really believe. How would you have explained that fact to God… if you had been one of them?

Can you know the truth by believing what someone tells you? What if that person is wrong? How would you know what was really true then? Do you believe ALL people who say they know God and tell you what they know God told them? Heh, I know you don’t. So how do you know WHO to believe???

Do you think you are so much smarter than others that you can and could figure that out?

Really? That’s good.

Then tell me how you would know who God was if you saw or heard Him for yourself?

And yes, there is “one” way we can know the truth, and I’ve told you that way, myself.

We can all know God by learning from God and knowing it IS God for ourselves. :)

And when we know God we will know the Holy Ghost. We will not deny what He says.

We can’t agree with our Lord and deny the Holy Ghost. They’re both “one”, and you can know for yourself.

And btw, since it seems that some of you are still stuck on the idea that intentionally murdering an innocent person is THE sin against the Holy Ghost, instead of simply another one of the many ways to sin against knowledge received from the Holy Ghost, I’ll ask you to tell me how you would know the truth about that issue for yourself.

Need a hint???

If I were you, I’d simply ask God. :)

[Serg]

Ray;

What a systematic response. Its good

Dr.T;

I hope that i dont have a "myriad" of asumptions concerning you. When i talked about your "deuteronomy sense of prophecy" i meant that i noticed in a previous post of yours, in a topic concerning prophecy, that you in your question, knew the answer and was blatantly an abstract suggestion of the chapter of deuteronomy which deals with the conditional "Jehova prophet-pagan prophet(if it comes to be...then its "true"...that sort of thing). Just mentioned it to let you know that your questions if genuine(which i presume) are guided by preconceived notions of evangelical theology. Just that. No issue. You are not just an investigator of christian faith or mormonism for that manner

Also, "tomistic" theology, is the given fact that Most if not all of Christian Theologies and apologetics are fundamentally based on Thomas Aquina's reinterpretations of Aristotle's "First engine" or "First mover". This systematic belief of a "myriad" of greek conceptions of "perfection" in terms of 'absolutes" is what molds not only every though in biblical studies but even the QUESTIONS concerning it. Just mention it so you might appreciate from where does it derive your(and this is, "most people's") sense of repudation(nicely put: "disagreement) concerning the currency of forgiveness and "change" after death.

Is it important that i mention it? For me, yes. Just as one could never understand why such a faulty theory as evolution has come to be not only mingled but identified with th every concept of "science", if one doesnot look for the 2 hundred years before and the development of "natural theologies", and the "naturalistic methodology", thus, one will never understand truly the most significant responses of mormonism without knowing from where and why does a normal chirstian rise the questions he/she rises.

Yeah, there is too much material to discuss concerning this, Ray is very given to long threads, I long ago lost my talent for that, BUT, if you would try these concepts separately, then I'd nicely participate.

Anyways, now by Ray and by me you got clear what blasphemy against the Hly Spirit and the nature of it being "unforgivable" can logically(and in another way) mean?

Good, we all know each of us does his/her homework. We are all here to contemplate different answers.

Regards,

[mdb]

Thank you Nicole,

Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which is willfully denying Christ after having received a perfect knowledge of him from the Holy Ghost, is the unforgivable sin

That is what I've always understood it to be. :)

Dr. T

“And anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but to him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven. (Lk 12:10)

If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. (1 Jn 5:16)

What is this blasphemy that is spoken of the Holy Spirit? Look in the book of Matthew.

Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, “This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.”

But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? And if I cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges. But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you. (Matt 12:24-28)

As Jesus responds to the Pharisees, He then says,

"Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. (Matt 12:31)

The blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the attributing of some work of the Holy Spirit to an unclean spirit or to call the Holy Spirit unclean. That is my understanding from the Scriptures.

[Ray]

And you're right in what you are saying, mdb. I and others are simply elaborating by sharing just a little more truth. :)

[Snow]

Thanks for pointing that out Snow. How would someone look into that issue to find out why they conflict? Do you have a good resource for that?

Thanks

I would think that they only conflict until they are fully understood.

Encyclopedia of Mormonism (quasi-official): Click Here

[Dr T]

Thank you for the link Snow. In the first section we find this quote,

Murder, the unlawful killing of a human being with malice aforethought or under such circumstances of criminality that the malice is presumed, "is a sin unto death" (1 John 5:16-17), a sin for which there is "no forgiveness" (D. & C. 42:79), meaning that a murderer can never gain salvation. "No murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:15.) He cannot join the Church by baptism; he is outside the pale of redeeming grace.

"A murderer can never gain salvation" and "he is outside the pale of redeeming grace" are the two main difficulties that I have with these passages. The reason for this is the old John 3:16 verse where it says, "Whosoever" not "everyone but murderers." I have a hard time with ideas that "redeeming grace" is not sufficient for murderers. Don't get me wrong, I am not advocating murder at all. "Thou shalt not murder" is clear. But so is "thou shalt not bear false witness against they neighbor" as we read in Exodus 20. Would we say that breaking any sin of the 10 commandments puts up beyond God's grace? I don't think so. As we read in the book of James, if we break one of the laws we break them all. Could Jesus' sacrifice for believers only be for some of the law but not all? Is Jesus' life, death and resurrection not sufficient? I'm not the Bible scholar so I'll leave that to them but from I'm reading in the Bible, it seems like it is.

THanks,

Dr. T

[Snow]

Thank you for the link Snow. In the first section we find this quote,

Murder, the unlawful killing of a human being with malice aforethought or under such circumstances of criminality that the malice is presumed, "is a sin unto death" (1 John 5:16-17), a sin for which there is "no forgiveness" (D. & C. 42:79), meaning that a murderer can never gain salvation. "No murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:15.) He cannot join the Church by baptism; he is outside the pale of redeeming grace.

"A murderer can never gain salvation" and "he is outside the pale of redeeming grace" are the two main difficulties that I have with these passages. The reason for this is the old John 3:16 verse where it says, "Whosoever" not "everyone but murderers." I have a hard time with ideas that "redeeming grace" is not sufficient for murderers. Don't get me wrong, I am not advocating murder at all. "Thou shalt not murder" is clear. But so is "thou shalt not bear false witness against they neighbor" as we read in Exodus 20. Would we say that breaking any sin of the 10 commandments puts up beyond God's grace? I don't think so. As we read in the book of James, if we break one of the laws we break them all. Could Jesus' sacrifice for believers only be for some of the law but not all? Is Jesus' life, death and resurrection not sufficient? I'm not the Bible scholar so I'll leave that to them but from I'm reading in the Bible, it seems like it is.

THanks,

Dr. T

Then how do you reconcile John 3:16 and 1 John 3:15. Same deal as the conflict with D&C.

[LionHeart]

Dr.T, here is one way to look at it: perhaps the reason murderes cannot gain salvation is not because the Lord denies it but because of their own state of perfection. We are put here on this Earth to be put to the ultimate test. This is the most ideal place to work out our salvation. To murder someone, is to rob them of that opportunity; as well rob them of all of their earthly joys -- family, friends, cars, houses, etc. It is quite a serious thing when considered in full perspective. For someone to be low enough to commit such an atrocity, they would likely be so low, that they would be out of reach of forgiveness. In other words, though they may repent of the murder, they would likely never repent of many lesser sins before they die; which, if one knows they have sinned, and they don't repent while in this life, that is the sin against the Holy Ghost; for which there is no forgiveness.

Just a thought.

L.H.

[Dr T]

Hi Snow,

Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you. We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

a. Do not marvel: We shouldn’t be surprised when the world hates us; but we should be surprised when there is hatred among the body of Christ.

b. We know: John insists that the believer can come to a place of genuine assurance. "I have, heard it said, by those who would be thought philosophers, that in religion we must believe, but cannot know. I am not very clear about the distinction they draw between knowledge and faith, nor do I care to enquire; because I assert that, in matters relating to religion, we know; in the things of God, we both believe and know." (Spurgeon)

c. We know that we have passed from death to life: A love for the people of God is a basic sign of being born again. If this love is not evident in our lives, our salvation can be questioned. If it is present, it gives us assurance.

i. We can know we have passed from death to life by our love for other Christians. The place of hatred, of jealousy, of bitterness you find yourself in is a place of death. You need to pass from death over to life.

ii. This means knowing two things. First, we know that we were dead. Second, we know that we have passed to life from death. To pass from death to life is the reverse of the normal. We all expect to pass from life to death; but in Jesus, we can turn it around.

iii. This speaks to our pursuit of fellowship. If we love the brethren, we will want to be with them - and even if we have been battered and bruised by unloving brethren, there will still be something in us drawing us back to fellowship with the brethren we love.

iv. "Do you love them for Christ’s sake? Do you say to yourself, 'That is one of Christ’s people; that is one who bears Christ’s cross; that is one of the children of God; therefore I love him, and take delight in his company'? Then, that is an evidence that you are not of the world." (Spurgeon)

d. Whoever hates his brother is a murderer: To hate our brother is to murder him in our hearts. Though we may not carry out the action (through cowardice or fear of punishment), we wish that person dead. Or, by ignoring another person, we may treat them as if they were dead. Hatred can be shown passively or actively.

i. John seemed to have in mind the teaching of Jesus from the Sermon on the Mount regarding the true fulfillment of the law. (Matthew 5:21-22)

ii. “In the heart there is no difference; to hate is to despise, to cut off from relationship, and murder is simply the fulfillment of that attitude.” (Barker)

iii. "Every man who hates another has the venom of murder in his veins. He may never actually take the deadly weapons into his hand and destroy life; but if he wishes that his brother were out of the way, if he would be glad if no such person existed, that feeling amounts to murder in the judgment of God." (Spurgeon)

e. You know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him: To live in the practice of murder - or to have a life style of the habitual hatred of our brethren - is a demonstration that we do not have eternal life abiding in us, that we are not born again.

i. There are many people for whom being a Christian is a “none of the above” sort of thing. They consider themselves Christians because they are not Moslems, or Jewish, or Buddhists, or atheists. But being a Christian is never a “none of the above” kind of thing.

ii. Being a Christian is more than saying, “I am a Christian.” There are in fact some who claim to be Christians who are not. How can we know if we are one of these? John’s reply has been constant and simple. There are three tests to measure the proof of a genuine Christian: the truth test, the love test, and the moral test. If we believe in what the Bible teaches as true, if we show the love of Jesus to others, and if our conduct has been changed and is becoming more like Jesus, then our claim to be a Christian can be proven true.

All from David Guzik’s Study Guide for 1 John 3

[Snow]

Hi Snow,

...All from David Guzik’s Study Guide for 1 John 3

So if you can swallow that spin, you can swallow anything. What the problem then?

[Dr T]

Hello Snow,

Like I said, I have not studied this issue and have only peripherally thought about this concept. In response to your question, I did not reconcile the two but left it to someone that has looked into that particular chapter. I posted it as a possible example of how it can be reconciled as you asked. Snow, your assertion that “if you can swallow that spin, you can swallow anything” implies an unsound mind and therefore an inability to have problems with other assertion. That does not follow. That is rather Argumentum “ad hominem-esc” sir. For example, I cannot swallow your assertion that “if you can swallow that spin, you can swallow anything” is false. But to answer your question “what the problem?"[sic] murder does not seem to be the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit discussed in the Bible.

Thanks,

Dr. T

[Ray]

Okay, let’s try this approach.

Regardless of what anyone else believes, I and most other LDS believe our Lord has spoken through prophets, and continues to speak through prophets, so no matter what anyone chooses to believe we (LDS) will continue to believe what our Lord says.

And to share some of what our Lord has said with some of you other people, I’ve taken a few minutes to come up with some quotes to let you know what He has said.

And btw, this is also a more direct response to the subject of this thread, because the “evidence of Mormonism” is the Book of Mormon and many other words of our Lord.

Enjoy! :)

Hebrews 10:26

2 Peter 2:20-22

Jacob 5:5-12

Moroni 8:28-29

D&C 42:18-19 and verse 79

D&C 132:27 and verse 39

[Dr T]

Thank you L.H.,

Sorry for the delay. I like that thought. My problem with murder being "not covered" though is that as sin is a sin is a sin. To lie is equal to lust is equal to murder. They are all "not god" acts and separation from God/hurtful to God or however you want to put that. From what I'm reading, Jesus can cover ALL those.

That is my issue.

Thanks,

Dr. T