Jezebel2011 Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 There has been an issue brought up at Church about the way the choir were dressed for the Christmas Eve Service. I don't really remember what was worn but it was nothing out of the ordinary to cause a stir. I was talking to another Ward member about the young women in particular, since I had been reading a book about what is and is not acceptable dress in Church. In that book it said that flip-flops shouldn't be worn, nor backless shoes or sandals, aswell as the usual short skirts, etc. This Ward Member said that when she was on the YW Presidency the girls had more issues than their clothing and she would rather they come to Church wearing inappropriate clothing than not come to Church at all. The girls concerned have all been BIC so brought up in LDS households. What came next stunned me. One of her family members had held a family party in a local restaurant/bar that serves families all day long. This Member had refused to go because they serve alcohol and kept her LDS husband and children away too. Yet this same Member has family that own a cafe that serves tea and coffee that she frequents regularly. I can't understand why she makes a distinction between a restaurant serving alcohol, tea and coffee and a cafe serving tea and coffee, that one is alright and the other isn't, when they are all in the WoW anyway. I appreciate that it would not be appropriate to go to a bar, even to drink soft drinks. Don't understand the restaurant issue, though. If a restaurant is considered out of bounds then what about a hotel? That seems silly to me. Am confused! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravin Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Am confused!So ask her. It's not like there is a official pronouncement that I'm aware of so it's going to be a case of how she is applying various counsel. None of us are going to know what her thinking is even if some of us might reach the same conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezebel2011 Posted January 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Might ask her tomorrow, if I get the chance. I still go to Starbucks for hot chocolate because I have always loved Starbucks hot chocolate. Even though they sell coffee and tea that I don't drink. Am safe if there is no official pronouncement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefche Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 You are a relatively new member, if I remember correctly. Almost all of the teachings of the Church are given as general principles. How that is executed is up to the individual. That's why you see people who don't drink coffee or tea, but are ok drinking caffeinated beverages or taking green tea supplements. Each individual in the church is trying to live the Gospel the best they know how. Each baptized member receives the gift of the Holy Ghost to help and guide them. All of us are on different places on the path to Christ. We've passed through the gate by baptism, but we don't progress along the path at the same pace. I understand your desire to do everything "right." I was a new member once as well. The best thing I learned was that I had to learn things for myself. Even if a member of the church who I admired greatly did something, I would still think about it and pray and then decide whether I would do the same or something different. Other than the official "do's and don'ts", everything else is up to interpretation by you and the Spirit guiding you. It is really ok that you will see members of the church--even leaders--doing things that you don't think is right. I get by when I see that with 2 reassurances. First, I use the Spirit to help me to decide what is right and wrong for me--not for others. Second, I recognize that everyone is at a different spiritual level than I am and I must allow them the agency to progress along the path at their pace, not mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezebel2011 Posted January 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Have been a member since the beginning of 2010. Taking my Endowments next week. I understand what you are saying. I have no problem with the Gospel/Teachings or anything else of that kind. The other stuff can be difficult when one Member does one thing and two others do something entirely different. Thanks for your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefche Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Have been a member since the beginning of 2010.Taking my Endowments next week.I understand what you are saying. I have no problem with the Gospel/Teachings or anything else of that kind. The other stuff can be difficult when one Member does one thing and two others do something entirely different.Thanks for your input.Yep, that is what I'm talking about. One of the more difficult things to deal with as a new member. You see people whom you think are wonderful, great, strong members of the Church do something that you believe is completely wrong and that can shake you. I get shaken every time I get a calling to a leadership calling. I find out things about ward members who I think are the stalwart, strong members and become a little disallusioned. I have to remind myself that my testimony and knowledge are not based on people, but on the Spirit. And I have to remind myself that no matter how we appear to others, we are not perfect, have faults and struggle to do right despite ourselves. And I cannot judge them--I can judge their behavior or actions for myself (meaning, whether I would do that behavior or not), but their path is their own. I'm just there to help them as the Spirit directs--not push them (although sometimes I'd like to!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravin Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Might ask her tomorrow, if I get the chance.BTW, I wasn't trying to blow you off. I just wasn't sure if you wanted to know why she made the decision she did, or if you meant it more as a springboard on how people decide such things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezebel2011 Posted January 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 BTW, I wasn't trying to blow you off. I just wasn't sure if you wanted to know why she made the decision she did, or if you meant it more as a springboard on how people decide such things.No problem.I was taken aback at the way she told the story. She is BIC and is about 35 now, third generation LDS. I know she keeps herself and her family according to the Gospel and LDS standards, always, without any doubt.I need to ask her why she wouldn't go to a restaurant simply because it serves alcohol yet she goes to an LDS-owned Cafe (owned by a member of the Bishopric and wife) serving tea and coffee without any qualms. I don't understand why she makes the distinction between the two.To be honest I am a little concerned that if she saw me in Starbucks, albeit drinking hot chocolate, that she will think I am not following the WoW.Yet three other long-term LDS members of 50+ years membership went to the same restaurant that this member refused to go to for a pre-Christmas meal - and took me with them -and nobody raised any objections.I guess that at the end of the day it comes down to what Beefche said - that we have to know ourselves that we are doing the right thing, regardless of what anyone else thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravin Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 I need to ask her why she wouldn't go to a restaurant simply because it serves alcohol yet she goes to an LDS-owned Cafe (owned by a member of the Bishopric and wife) serving tea and coffee without any qualms. I don't understand why she makes the distinction between the two.When you do so I'd try to make it really clear you're seeking to understand how she decides and not that you are accusing her of hypocrisy. If she perceives the latter she'll probably be rather offended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezebel2011 Posted January 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Will be very careful :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytor2112 Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 I attend church with a woman that holds her head so high that if the ceiling were lower she would break her neck. She avoids the very appearance of evil in all it's forms and is sure to let you know it and also how righteous she is......AND she spreads more gossip and malicious rumors and has done more damage to members than any one I know....and she is oblivious to it. I attend church with another member that uses profanity and wears, well not church type pant material to church, but is one of the most selfless individuals and has the kindest heart of anyone I know. All types of folks in all different places on the Spiritual journey....I think that Heavenly Father is long suffering.....thankfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapikui Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Sometimes it's about what's right for the individual. Remember the Ammonites. The first generation had taken an oath never again to shed blood, even if it meant their lives. Taking that oath was right for them, they were blessed for doing so, and blessed for upholding that oath. About a generation Later when it became apparent that others were dying to protect them they were rather forcefully encouraged not to break the oath lest they lose their souls. Just taking that story at face value, we may think that we should all take such an oath, but that is not the case. They felt they needed to because of their past history, and weaknesses. Instead of breaking that oath, their sons stepped up, and joined the Nephite army to contribute to the defense of the lands. The sons hadn't taken that oath, and had not had the same past of being addicted to the violence, so they were able to take up swords in defense of their liberties without the danger of backsliding into barbarism. Indeed they were also blessed, and managed on several occasions to utterly destroy much larger Lamanite armies, without suffering any deaths themselves. Both choices are opposites, yet both were right and righteous choices, as they depend on the needs of the individuals, and I believe each to be the most righteous choice available under the circumstances. Avoidance of things like alcohol could be much the same. Coffee is addictive, but doesn't have nearly the negative consequences of addiction as does alcohol. While some individuals may need to stay away from such things, others may have no issues at all. Of course, it is human nature to believe "I am the most righteous person. What I do is ok, and is justified. If someone does something different, they're wrong." We all do this from time to time, it is unfortunate, but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunkyTown Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Ahhh! This thread has risen from the grave, it's OP long since gone. Flee, everyone! Flee in terror! It is...The zombie thread that would not die.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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