Dr T Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Good question AK. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaFKon Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 <div class='quotemain'>There IS ONLY one God.Desiré, was God once a man? did he once have a God?It's amazing.I have been a member for a year,and you are asking me things that people don't even figure out until they get endowed. lolAsk someone else...LH is kind og confusing though...... I believe he has a body though! I'm afriad I don't understand you....Are you are saying:(1) "I don't know how many gods there are, ask someone else"(2) There IS ONLY ONE GOD(3) OtherJosh B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess3dward Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 <div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'>There IS ONLY one God.Desiré, was God once a man? did he once have a God?It's amazing.I have been a member for a year,and you are asking me things that people don't even figure out until they get endowed. lolAsk someone else...LH is kind og confusing though...... I believe he has a body though! I'm afriad I don't understand you....Are you are saying:(1) "I don't know how many gods there are, ask someone else"(2) There IS ONLY ONE GOD(3) OtherJosh B)I am saying......We follow only one God, and that is the one we need to worry about.It doesn't matter at all to out salvation about God's God, or whatever is out there...It just matters about OUR GOD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaFKon Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 I am saying......We follow only one God, and that is the one we need to worry about.It doesn't matter at all to out salvation about God's God, or whatever is out there...It just matters about OUR GOD.Well...that really dosn't address my question...but, why don't we let it go?why don't you show me how the "Whole Bible" contradicts itself now.Josh B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted September 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 1. Was all man created equally good and upright or was that just Adam? I know about the creation of Adam and Eve and I know what happened when they fell. Can you show clearly in scripture how Adam's "image" was distorted - then how G-d's immage was restored by Adam's rebirth. If rebirth is important for and to Adam how come the scriptures do not mention it for 4,000 years? I find no reference in scripture that the image of Adam was changed or that he was reborn. I find no reference that more of G-d's image was created in some than others. Why then is there a difference in the uprightness of men? I know how LDS handel this - I just trying to get a grip on how Trinitarians explain it by scripture or where it is they come up with the answer.When you ask for Scripture, the relevent story, is the Fall (Genesis 3). Prior to Adam & Eve's rebellion, the world that they knew was a pure reflection of God--his goodness, righteousness, and yes, creativity. With the act of rebellion came the corruption of creation (including humanity). Now there would be "bad"--weeds, difficult labor, difficult childbirth--death. Thus, the image becomes distorted. Ironically, with the knowledge of good and evil, came a loss of our ability to see God completely--either through direct communion, or through his creation.The vision of God, and his image in and through us, improved for Adam and Eve, for Cain and Abel, for Noah, for Abraham, for Israel, etc. through obedience, worship, devotion. With the advent of our Savior, the walk with God becomes stable and sure. Now the Spirit is constantly with us.Yet, even now, even for believers, even for us who call ourselves "Spirit-filled believers," 1 Cor. 13 tells us, "We see through the glass, darkly, but then we shall see him fully."2. The scriptures say "Man" was created in the image of G-d; not just Adam. Does this mean then that all men created prior to the fall and then "distorted" when Adam and Eve fell? Or does it mean that all men created after the fall are not created in the image of G-d but in some other image? If, for example, you were created after the fall; how is it that you are distorted by the Fall? Especially since it was not your fall? and were you born in the image of G-d or did that not occure until you were reborn? Can you support your concepts with scripture? or are we guessing and making up answers?If I had to guess, I'd think you were hinting at the doctrine of "original sin." As I answered in the first section, the image of God is distorted because of sin, sickness, and death--not because the original image was changed. BTW, if we are right, that the image is related to character "uprightness, goodness"--then the diminishment of that image is pretty easy to see, isn't it?BTW, we believe that those who are damned to hell are indeed so assigned because of their works, not Adam's sin. We who are redeemed are saved by the blood of Jesus, and then rewarded for our works.3. It is obvious that not all men are the same as farr as good and upright. It is also obvious to me that not all Christians that claim to be born again are good and upright. It is also obvious to me that many non-Christians are good and upright. Is this because they are what G-d created them to be what they are or has the fall had slightly different effects of some people?I am convinced that there is no human alive, or who has ever lived, who would not have taken the fruit in the Garden. On the other hand, God has given us free will. Some wallow in sin, and seek out ever deeper depravity. Others are satisfied to play in the shallow end of the Pool of Sin, and to justify themselves by comparing to those who have gone deeper. The Prodigal is still a prodigal whether s/he goes to the next town down the road, or to the farthest country away possible.The sin that keeps us from God is rebellion--seeking to be independent of our creator. It is akin to spiting our parents, but even worse.One last thing you said that really bothers me (I would not bring this up because I do now want to wander all over the place with our discussion but this one reall causes a lot of confusion): PC said: Reconciliation with God does not mean that creation can become essentially one with the Creator. We gain peace, communion, fellowship. However, as creation, we remain a species. God is beyond being a species.I do not know what you mean by species - the scriptures do not talk about that (as near as I can determine the concept of species is 100% a human notion) - but scriptures do talk about his image. We know his image can be created and that only man is that image. Is there anything else in heaven in the image of G-d? What of G-d is beyond his image (not included in his image)? and where does the concept come that there is something beyond his image? The TravelerSpecies is not a word in the Bible, anymore than Trinity, or many other words we use to describe God and his creation. I simply meant an order of created beings. Like the many types of animals, we were created. I suppose you could replace the word species with creation. We are the human creation. We were made in God's image--but we surely were MADE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted September 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 By essence or nature, do you mean "species" as per your earlier conversation with Traveler? Just what is this essence that is the crux of the matter? And where in the scriptures do we learn of this ontological distinction between God and man?Species = creative order of being. Therefore, God is not a species. God is God. We learn of the distinction in Genesis 1: In the beginning God...we weren't there. It was just him. Created ... He made us and our world. In that same episode the Spirit is described as brooding over the face of the earth. In the New Testament we read that all things were created by and for Jesus. So, the ontological distinction is between MAKER an us who were made. Between CREATOR, and us who were created. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ApostleKnight Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Okay, that's a clear answer. Now how does this apply to the trinity? In other words, when you say God the Father, God the Son and God the Spirit are of the same essence, do you mean: 1) They are "made of the same stuff?" 2) They simply share a divine nature of perfect goodness? 3) Other? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess3dward Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 I am saying......We follow only one God, and that is the one we need to worry about.It doesn't matter at all to out salvation about God's God, or whatever is out there...It just matters about OUR GOD.Well...that really dosn't address my question...but, why don't we let it go?why don't you show me how the "Whole Bible" contradicts itself now.Josh B)That was short! I liked it!Anyway....I think it is all in the interperitations.I will write more later... Suddenly people want to talk to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaFKon Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 That was short! I liked it!Anyway....I think it is all in the interperitations.I will write more later... Suddenly people want to talk to me I say that if we both use the same dictionary, then one thing can be proved false, and one thing proved true.Josh B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess3dward Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 That was short! I liked it!Anyway....I think it is all in the interperitations.I will write more later... Suddenly people want to talk to me I say that if we both use the same dictionary, then one thing can be proved false, and one thing proved true.Josh B)But a dictionary from where?I like my LDS one. Let's use that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaFKon Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 But a dictionary from where?I like my LDS one. Let's use that! I wasn't aware the LDS published a dictionary...how about dictionary.com? Josh B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess3dward Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 But a dictionary from where?I like my LDS one. Let's use that! I wasn't aware the LDS published a dictionary...how about dictionary.com? Josh B)No... words mean something different back then than they do today.Hardly accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaFKon Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 No... words mean something different back then than they do today.Hardly accurate.Shall we use the Hebrew/Greek translation then? B) (I have one)Josh B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess3dward Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 No... words mean something different back then than they do today.Hardly accurate.Shall we use the Hebrew/Greek translation then? B) (I have one)Josh B)...... arrrrrrgggggggggggggggggggg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaFKon Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 <div class='quotemain'>No... words mean something different back then than they do today.Hardly accurate.Shall we use the Hebrew/Greek translation then? B) (I have one)Josh B)...... arrrrrrggggggggggggggggggggI sense fustration ....I don't know why since I am the one waiting for you to prove "The Whole Bible" contradicts itself. Josh B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess3dward Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 <div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'>No... words mean something different back then than they do today.Hardly accurate.Shall we use the Hebrew/Greek translation then? B) (I have one)Josh B)...... arrrrrrggggggggggggggggggggI sense fustration ....I don't know why since I am the one waiting for you to prove "The Whole Bible" contradicts itself. Josh B)You ONLY SENSE IT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaFKon Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 You ONLY SENSE IT? Acually, I think I may have heard a loud shriek a couple of minutes ago that could have come all the way from Canada... Why don't you, using the Bible and what ever dictionary you like, prove that "the whole bible contradicts itself"Or, you could admit you were wrong..... Josh B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 1. Yes, the LDS Church has a Bible dictionary; it's included in the scriptures such as quads for reference. http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bd/contents Check out the Topical Guide, too; it can help you enormously. http://scriptures.lds.org/en/tg/contents2. Yes, there are many examples often used to point out contradictions within the Bible; I think we are all aware that they exist. If not, try a simple Google search, as I'm certainly not going to point them out for you. I can think of more constructive uses for the scriptures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaFKon Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 1. Yes, the LDS Church has a Bible dictionary; it's included in the scriptures such as quads for reference. http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bd/contents Check out the Topical Guide, too; it can help you enormously. http://scriptures.lds.org/en/tg/contentsI was refering to a dictionary that gives the meaning for words...but thank you :) 2. Yes, there are many examples often used to point out contradictions within the Bible; I think we are all aware that they exist. If not, try a simple Google search, as I'm certainly not going to point them out for you. I can think of more constructive uses for the scriptures. I dissagree they are true contradictions...(at least in the OT) and I don't see any "doctrinal" contradictions.Josh B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess3dward Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 You ONLY SENSE IT? Acually, I think I may have heard a loud shriek a couple of minutes ago that could have come all the way from Canada... Why don't you, using the Bible and what ever dictionary you like, prove that "the whole bible contradicts itself"Or, you could admit you were wrong..... Josh B) Sorry... can't lie.That would be breaking the eigth commandment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaFKon Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Why don't you, using the Bible and what ever dictionary you like, prove that "the whole bible contradicts itself"Or, you could admit you were wrong..... Josh B) Sorry... can't lie.That would be breaking the eigth commandment.lol I guess that only leaves you with one option then.... Josh B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess3dward Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Why don't you, using the Bible and what ever dictionary you like, prove that "the whole bible contradicts itself"Or, you could admit you were wrong..... Josh B) Sorry... can't lie.That would be breaking the eigth commandment.lol I guess that only leaves you with one option then.... Josh B)Yupp... I know the bible contridicts itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaFKon Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Yupp... I know the bible contridicts itself.But I know you'll give me an example of how you think the Bible contradicts itself, because you said:Awww.. come on. I only knew the saying.... I am too lazy right now.I will get it from seminary (make them look it all up for me... hopefully. lol).I am going to bed now.Night everyone!! (I will find something.. even if I have to ask my dad......I just don't want to resort to that. lol)I wouldn't want you to break the eighth commandment!! Josh B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess3dward Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Yupp... I know the bible contridicts itself.But I know you'll give me an example of how you think the Bible contradicts itself, because you said:<div class='quotemain'>Awww.. come on. I only knew the saying.... I am too lazy right now.I will get it from seminary (make them look it all up for me... hopefully. lol).I am going to bed now.Night everyone!! (I will find something.. even if I have to ask my dad......I just don't want to resort to that. lol)I wouldn't want you to break the eighth commandment!! Josh B)Darn right!!!!!Heavenly Father would like my brother trying to get me to stray from the streight and narrow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaFKon Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Darn right!!!!!Heavenly Father would like my brother trying to get me to stray from the streight and narrow!ok, then what's you're example?Are you saying I'm "trying to get you to stray from the streight and narrow!" by saying the Bible is true? Josh B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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