The Gift of Seership

[mordorbund]

I haven't made an in-depth study of the early Saints and seer stones. I do recall that in the D&C Joseph seeks for various answers in the Urim and Thummim until June 1829 (before the Church was organized and before the restoration of the Melchizedek Priesthood), after which there is no more mention of using this tool for revelation. I wonder if it was intended to be a stepping stone until Joseph was acquanted with the order of revelation.

[Magen_Avot]

This is my opinion but we do sustain the current 15 as "prophets, seers and revelators". It is a title in this church. Also each seperately are gifts of God (yes, seer and revelator are tandom and should be) and have their place and either have or will be used by the 15 as the Lord wills it. It would be nice to know these divine gifts are excercised by them but I'm not on that list.

Sadly official discussion of seer stones have indeed fallen by the way side and we now know so little I expect that the day will soon come that most members won't even know what we are talking about. (wait, that may already be true). I do believe the stones mentioned are available but doubt that they ever see the light of day becuase such things may not be needed or are just not disclosed, but definately a topic of debate.

My opinion doesn't really mean much, but it's good to hear the discussion here.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Magen_Avot

[james12]

As I understand it, Joseph's two seer-stones are currently in the First Presidency's vault.

To my understanding Joseph had a seer stone and the Urim and Thummim. It appears that there was one seer stone (though there may be a little confusion on the point). It was dark colored and opaque. There is an interesting article entitled "Joseph Smith the Gift of Seeing" Volume 15, Number 2, Summer 1982 The seer stone is likely the stone referred to by Joseph Fielding Smith in Just_A_Guy's post.

I haven't made an in-depth study of the early Saints and seer stones. I do recall that in the D&C Joseph seeks for various answers in the Urim and Thummim until June 1829 (before the Church was organized and before the restoration of the Melchizedek Priesthood), after which there is no more mention of using this tool for revelation. I wonder if it was intended to be a stepping stone until Joseph was acquainted with the order of revelation.

David Whitmer explained a little more regarding the seer stone and possible comments of Joseph.

After the translation of the Book of Mormon was finished, early in the spring of 1830, before April 6th, Joseph gave the [seer] stone to Oliver Cowdery and told me as well as the rest that he was through with it, and he did not use the stone any more. He said he was through the work that God had given him the gift to perform, except to preach the gospel. He told us that we would all have to depend on the Holy Ghost hereafter to be guided into truth and obtain the will of the Lord. (David Whitmer, An Address to All the Believers in Christ, p 32) An Address to All Believers in Christ Part Three

Also, Joseph Fielding Smith said this.

We have been taught since the days of the Prophet that the Urim and Thummim were returned with the plates to the angel. We have no record of the Prophet having the Urim and Thummim after the organization of the Church. (Doctrines of Salvation, 3:, p.225)

[jayanna]

The Lord made Enoch a seer, and he did not have records to translate.

35 And the Lord spake unto Enoch, and said unto him: Anoint thine eyes with aclay, and wash them, and thou shalt see. And he did so.

36 And he beheld the aspirits that God had created; and he beheld also things which were not visible to the bnatural eye; and from thenceforth came the saying abroad in the land: A cseer hath the Lord raised up unto his people.

37 And it came to pass that Enoch went forth in the land, among the people, standing upon the hills and the high places, and cried with a loud voice, testifying against their works; and all men were aoffended because of him.

38 And they came forth to hear him, upon the high places, saying unto the atent-keepers: Tarry ye here and keep the tents, while we go yonder to behold the seer, for he prophesieth, and there is a strange thing in the land; a bwild man hath come among us.

Samuel was also called a seer, without an records or mention of records to be translated: 9 (Beforetime in Israel, when a man went to aenquire of God, thus he spake, Come, and let us go to the bseer: for he that is now called a cProphet was beforetime called a dSeer.) and again in the same chapter 17 And when Samuel saw Saul, the Lord said unto him, Behold the man whom I spake to thee of! this same shall reign over my people.

18 Then Saul drew near to Samuel in the gate, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, where the seer’s house is.

19 And Samuel answered Saul, and said, I am the aseer: go up before me unto the high place; for ye shall eat with me to day, and to morrow I will let thee go, and will tell thee all that is in thine heart.

The term seer is used interchangeably in the OT

The use of the seer stones must be inclusive, not exlusive. The Lord would not have us sustain someone to be a seer, if they did not have the ability to do it. He does not ask of us that which we cannot do, He will always give us a means by which it can be done...

Edited January 26, 2012 by jayanna