How Do You Get Salvation Through Jesus Christ?

[Stealth3si]

How do you primarily* get salvation through Jesus Christ? By faith or by works?

[Guest ApostleKnight]

We are saved by faith in Christ's atonement, which faith--when properly nurtured--blossoms into obedience and service. While our best efforts or "works" are not enough, they are necessary.

Some Christians think Christ's grace allows them to live as they please.

True Christians understand that Christ's grace allows them to live as he pleases.

[Princess3dward]

True Christians understand that Christ's grace allows them to live as he pleases.

I never thought aboutit that way....

I think that is a good way of putting it...

after you think about it a moment..

Thanx!

[Stealth3si]

We are saved by faith in Christ's atonement, which faith--when properly nurtured--blossoms into obedience and service.

So, generally, are you saying that believers are simply resurrected by faith in Christ's atonement and that faith is properly nurtured by works?

While our best efforts or "works" are not enough, they are necessary.

Individually, are you saying that you work in order to be truly exalted?

Some Christians think Christ's grace allows them to live as they please.

Interesting. Do you agree, at this point, either Christian or LDS, that true freedom is doing what's right not doing whatever you feel like or want to?

... to live as he pleases.

What do you mean ,"to live as he pleases"? Are you referring to the O.T. laws? Or another set of standards (i.e. laws, rules, regulations, etc) to follow? Or something else?

[Princess3dward]

"faith without works is dead"

Satan knows that Jesus was/is the savour.

[Stealth3si]

"faith without works is dead"

Satan knows that Jesus was/is the savour.

As an analogy, being a professional football player without actually participating in the game is dead. Does that analogy correlate with what you just said? JSYK, I'm not good at analogies.

[Princess3dward]

<div class='quotemain'>

"faith without works is dead"

Satan knows that Jesus was/is the savour.

As an analogy, being a professional football player without actually participating in the game is dead. Does that analogy correlate with what you just said? JSYK, I'm not good at analogies.

Hmm.. I think it works. Thank you!

[Guest MrsS]

<div class='quotemain'>

"faith without works is dead"

Satan knows that Jesus was/is the savour.

As an analogy, being a professional football player without actually participating in the game is dead. Does that analogy correlate with what you just said? JSYK, I'm not good at analogies.

Here is a story from the New Era by Victor L. Brown, Presiding Bishop

“Do It. ‘Be Ye Doers of the Word,’ ” New Era, Mar. 1985, 4

In James 1:22–25 we read:

“But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

“For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

“For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

“… but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.”

A little later James writes: “Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. … faith without works is dead” (James 2:18, 20).

Let me tell you of a young man who really understood these scriptures. He lives in Seoul, Korea. One day, when this young man was 15, his father received a call from a close friend who asked him if he were having financial difficulty. Being in affluent circumstances, he indicated “No, everything is fine.” He then wanted to know why his friend would ask such a question.

The man replied that he had seen his son selling newspapers on a street corner in Seoul.

The father couldn’t believe it because his son received quite a liberal allowance and would have no need to work for additional money. When asked if there couldn’t have been a mistake, the friend said, “No, I stopped and talked with him on the corner.”

When the son returned from school that evening his father asked him about the incident. The son said, “Yes, I was selling newspapers.”

“Isn’t your allowance sufficient to take care of your needs?” the father wanted to know.

“Yes,” he said, “but we had a lesson in seminary on the Good Samaritan, and I wanted to experience what it meant to be a Good Samaritan, not just learn about it. So I have taken my allowance and bought newspapers and asked some of my friends to join with me in selling them. We want to raise enough money to help one of our classmates, who is very poor, remain in school. Without the help, he would have to drop out.”

In addition to this, sometime earlier, this young man had asked his mother to double his lunch. She had done so without questioning him, thinking that as a growing teenager he was just extra hungry. He told his father that this other student would have to go hungry each day if he did not share half of his lunch with him.

This is what the Lord means when he encourages us to be doers of the word and to show our faith by our works. There are many experiences that would take on greater meaning if we made these scriptures a part of our lives.

Does this help you to understand a bit better?

[Stealth3si]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

"faith without works is dead"

Satan knows that Jesus was/is the savour.

As an analogy, being a professional football player without actually participating in the game is dead. Does that analogy correlate with what you just said? JSYK, I'm not good at analogies.

Here is a story from the New Era by Victor L. Brown, Presiding Bishop

“Do It. ‘Be Ye Doers of the Word,’ ” New Era, Mar. 1985, 4

In James 1:22–25 we read:

“But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

“For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

“For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

“… but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.”

A little later James writes: “Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. … faith without works is dead” (James 2:18, 20).

Let me tell you of a young man who really understood these scriptures. He lives in Seoul, Korea. One day, when this young man was 15, his father received a call from a close friend who asked him if he were having financial difficulty. Being in affluent circumstances, he indicated “No, everything is fine.” He then wanted to know why his friend would ask such a question.

The man replied that he had seen his son selling newspapers on a street corner in Seoul.

The father couldn’t believe it because his son received quite a liberal allowance and would have no need to work for additional money. When asked if there couldn’t have been a mistake, the friend said, “No, I stopped and talked with him on the corner.”

When the son returned from school that evening his father asked him about the incident. The son said, “Yes, I was selling newspapers.”

“Isn’t your allowance sufficient to take care of your needs?” the father wanted to know.

“Yes,” he said, “but we had a lesson in seminary on the Good Samaritan, and I wanted to experience what it meant to be a Good Samaritan, not just learn about it. So I have taken my allowance and bought newspapers and asked some of my friends to join with me in selling them. We want to raise enough money to help one of our classmates, who is very poor, remain in school. Without the help, he would have to drop out.”

In addition to this, sometime earlier, this young man had asked his mother to double his lunch. She had done so without questioning him, thinking that as a growing teenager he was just extra hungry. He told his father that this other student would have to go hungry each day if he did not share half of his lunch with him.

This is what the Lord means when he encourages us to be doers of the word and to show our faith by our works. There are many experiences that would take on greater meaning if we made these scriptures a part of our lives.

Does this help you to understand a bit better?

quite a bit. ty.

BTW, just curious though and hope you don't mind this out-of-the-blue question, did Moroni ever "read" Heb. 13:8 and James 1:17?

[LionHeart]

How do you primarily* get salvation through Jesus Christ? By faith or by works?

By both. Like was mentioned before, faith without works is dead. We must start out by planting the seeds of faith; which, through our exercise of it, will grow. It does not truly grow without our exercising it through our works. This faith is a requirement to gain our salvation. Many people think they only need to confess Jesus as their Savior and they are saved; but Jesus himself says:

"Matt. 7: 21

21: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

L.H.

[Guest ApostleKnight]

So, generally, are you saying that believers are simply resurrected by faith in Christ's atonement and that faith is properly nurtured by works?

No. Everyone, sinner and saint alike, will be resurrected because of Christ's atonement. How glorious their resurrected body will be, however, is another matter.

Individually, are you saying that you work in order to be truly exalted?

Unless I give my very best to God I would feel ungrateful for the gift of exaltation. More than just "showing a good effort," I think this life is the time to change into the kind of Being that God is (meaning in attributes, desires, and actions). A necessary result of changing into someone better is "works" or doing more or serving others more than we did before the change.

Interesting. Do you agree, at this point, either Christian or LDS, that true freedom is doing what's right not doing whatever you feel like or want to?

Yes, I agree. The ironic thing is that those who demand the most freedom end up with the least as a result of their reckless living.

What do you mean ,"to live as he pleases"?

I mean to "do as Jesus would do." Embody the beatitudes, love perfectly, serve selflessly, give readily, obey voluntarily...etc...

[Gwen]

i know how i feel about this, but am very curious about how others view this. i beleive both faith and works are required, that is how you balance justice and mercy. this subject was brought up breifly in another thread. (sorry i don't know how to do all the links, quotes, and all the other neat computer stuff. lol) it was in Gospel Discussion Board, Wanted- Honest answers about you faith posts # 41, 42, 43, 44

i am still confused, i live in the bible belt and we have churches that say, mercy or faith and being saved is all you need, it dosen't matter what you do. these beleifs are based on the bible. accross the street you will have another church, also based on the bible, preaching hell, fire, and damnation, god is just, fear god. how can both churches be teaching from the same bible? i don't understand how others balance the justice and mercy of god. or do they just pick out which one they like and throw the other out? so to anyone who doesn't beleive both justice/works, and faith/mercy are required i would like your thoughts on how you balance this.

as for me, i think alma explains it best for me. we have a just and merciful God and therefore faith and works are a requirement

Alma 42: 1, 13-15, 21-25, 30

1 And now, my son, I perceive there is somewhat more which doth worry your mind, which ye cannot understand—which is concerning the justice of God in the punishment of the sinner; for ye do try to suppose that it is injustice that the sinner should be consigned to a state of misery.

• • •

13 Therefore, according to justice, the plan of redemption could not be brought about, only on conditions of repentance of men in this probationary state, yea, this preparatory state; for except it were for these conditions, mercy could not take effect except it should destroy the work of justice. Now the work of justice could not be destroyed; if so, God would cease to be God.

14 And thus we see that all mankind were fallen, and they were in the grasp of justice; yea, the justice of God, which consigned them forever to be cut off from his presence.

15 And now, the plan of mercy could not be brought about except an atonement should be made; therefore God himself atoneth for the sins of the world, to bring about the plan of mercy, to appease the demands of justice, that God might be a perfect, just God, and a merciful God also.

• • •

21 And if there was no law given, if men sinned what could justice do, or mercy either, for they would have no claim upon the creature?

22 But there is a law given, and a punishment affixed, and a repentance granted; which repentance, mercy claimeth; otherwise, justice claimeth the creature and executeth the law, and the law inflicteth the punishment; if not so, the works of justice would be destroyed, and God would cease to be God.

23 But God ceaseth not to be God, and mercy claimeth the penitent, and mercy cometh because of the atonement; and the atonement bringeth to pass the resurrection of the dead; and the resurrection of the dead bringeth back men into the presence of God; and thus they are restored into his presence, to be judged according to their works, according to the law and justice.

24 For behold, justice exerciseth all his demands, and also mercy claimeth all which is her own; and thus, none but the truly penitent are saved.

25 What, do ye suppose that mercy can rob justice? I say unto you, Nay; not one whit. If so, God would cease to be God.

• • •

30 O my son, I desire that ye should deny the justice of God no more. Do not endeavor to excuse yourself in the least point because of your sins, by denying the justice of God; but do you let the justice of God, and his mercy, and his long-suffering have full sway in your heart; and let it bring you down to the dust in humility.

[Dr T]

Hey A.K.,

I like this,

I mean to "do as Jesus would do." Embody the beatitudes, love perfectly, serve selflessly, give readily, obey voluntarily...etc...

Thanks

[Stealth3si]

Unless I give my very best to God I would feel ungrateful for the gift of exaltation. More than just "showing a good effort," I think this life is the time to change into the kind of Being that God is (meaning in attributes, desires, and actions). A necessary result of changing into someone better is "works" or doing more or serving others more than we did before the change.

I agree. Personally, if I wanted to be in a better, advanced, higher, etc state of being or position I'd do as much work as possible for the most rewards, sort of like, capitalism --- you get what you put in. So in this sense, is it like a job where you work to get to the top? For example, everyone has to start at the bottom for any job out there, and in order to get promoted or a raise, we normally have to put in work. Am I making any sense?

I mean to "do as Jesus would do." Embody the beatitudes, love perfectly, serve selflessly, give readily, obey voluntarily...etc...

On a different yet similar note, what really impresses me about you guys is that you are very hard-working disciples of God and have so much motivation to get up and spread God's word from door to door in the neighborhood, unlike any other. I know this is just wishful thinking, but it'd be cool if Christians had the motivation to invest some of our energy into evangelizing the way you guys do it. :)

[Stealth3si]

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How do you primarily* get salvation through Jesus Christ? By faith or by works?

By both. Like was mentioned before, faith without works is dead. We must start out by planting the seeds of faith; which, through our exercise of it, will grow. It does not truly grow without our exercising it through our works. This faith is a requirement to gain our salvation. Many people think they only need to confess Jesus as their Savior and they are saved; but Jesus himself says:

"Matt. 7: 21

21: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

L.H.

So what you're saying is that a believer has no choice but to work to get salvation? So you have to work, not should work?

[Ray]

How do you primarily* get salvation through Jesus Christ? By faith or by works?

Some people seem to think it's an "EITHER OR" option, but I personally believe it is AND.

And if want to hear my answer to what you asked in the thread topic, I'd say:

Accept Jesus Christ as your Lord.

Does everyone understand what it means to have a Lord?

Do you think Jesus Christ is an exception?

The only way I know to accept Him as my Lord is for me to actually do what He tells me.

[Dr T]

Hi Ray,

You are saying, "you are saved by faith AND works." If you only have faith, that not good enough. If you only do works that won't cut it either. Works are a requirement for salvation?

[Princess3dward]

Don't you think that Satan knew that Jesus was going to be the savior?

Just knowing that is only step one.

How easy it is to go through life and think, "sure glad I can sin now.. because Jesus took care of that."

[Dr T]

How easy it is to go through life and think, "sure glad I can sin now.. because Jesus took care of that."

Des, you have been fed that belief by someone. How do you know that is the belief? When talking to Christians, that is not the attitude that I've come across. Maybe someone that claims Christianty but is not really familiar with what Christianity is all about.

Dr. T

[LionHeart]

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<div class='quotemain'>

How do you primarily* get salvation through Jesus Christ? By faith or by works?

By both. Like was mentioned before, faith without works is dead. We must start out by planting the seeds of faith; which, through our exercise of it, will grow. It does not truly grow without our exercising it through our works. This faith is a requirement to gain our salvation. Many people think they only need to confess Jesus as their Savior and they are saved; but Jesus himself says:

"Matt. 7: 21

21: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

L.H.

So what you're saying is that a believer has no choice but to work to get salvation? So you have to work, not should work?

Yes. Said work being living the Lord's commandments. Living the Lord's commandments is the path to perfecting our character. Jesus instructed us in how to live, now we must show our faith by living accordingly. Herein is salvation.

L.H.

[Stealth3si]

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<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

How do you primarily* get salvation through Jesus Christ? By faith or by works?

By both. Like was mentioned before, faith without works is dead. We must start out by planting the seeds of faith; which, through our exercise of it, will grow. It does not truly grow without our exercising it through our works. This faith is a requirement to gain our salvation. Many people think they only need to confess Jesus as their Savior and they are saved; but Jesus himself says:

"Matt. 7: 21

21: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

L.H.

So what you're saying is that a believer has no choice but to work to get salvation? So you have to work, not should work?

Yes. Said work being living the Lord's commandments. Living the Lord's commandments is the path to perfecting our character. Jesus instructed us in how to live, now we must show our faith by living accordingly. Herein is salvation.

L.H.

What kind of works are we talking about here? works of the law or works of the faith? Works that come from us human beings or works that come from God? What I'm asking is according to what part of your 13 articles of faith does it mention the type of works. I.e. a law or oridance?

[Stealth3si]

Don't you think that Satan knew that Jesus was going to be the savior?

Just knowing that is only step one.

How easy it is to go through life and think, "sure glad I can sin now.. because Jesus took care of that."

Hi Desiré,

you make a point. Some, if not many, Christians may think that attitude. A misinformed Christian that is. But that belief or attitude is not what Christianity teaches.

I agree that it is silly to say that Jesus's deletion of our sins past present and future condones us to sin. Of course, we're going to stumble in the future. But make sure that you ask for genuinive forgiveness after you sin and most importantly, not play games with God. For example, since Jesus forgive my sin, I will premeditatingly sin tomorrow for the next three years and then ask for forgiveness after. God does not play that way at all. He knows our hearts' motives.

[Ray]

Just in case it helps to repeat this again...

<div class='quotemain'>

How do you primarily* get salvation through Jesus Christ? By faith or by works?

Some people seem to think it's an "EITHER OR" option, but I personally believe it is AND.

And if want to hear my answer to what you asked in the thread topic, I'd say:

Accept Jesus Christ as your Lord.

Does everyone understand what it means to have a Lord?

Do you think Jesus Christ is an exception?

The only way I know to accept Him as my Lord is for me to actually do what He tells me.

[Stealth3si]

OK. so basically you guys are saying salvation requires faith but faith requires works?? Am I making any sens?

[JoshuaFKon]

OK. so basically you guys are saying salvation requires faith but faith requires works?? Am I making any sens?

From what I understand, Mormons believe there are three "levels" of heven

Holding an "optimistic view"[8] of the afterlife, Latter-day Saints believe that-through the atonement and resurrection of Jesus Christ-eventually every person will be saved in a kingdom of heaven (or a degree of glory) except those who have committed the unpardonable sin.[i'm not sure what they consider the "unpardonable sin"] Bennion said: "All men will receive a degree of salvation commensurate with their desires, their faith, and their good works. This is the divine will and plan."[9] While the vast majority of mankind will eventually be saved in heaven, this does not mean that all residents will enjoy the same quality of eternal lifestyle.

Level #1 The CELESTIAL HEAVEN - The highest of the three levels of heaven where faithful Mormons are exalted to Godhood.

Level #2 The The TERRESTRIAL HEAVEN - is for those who lived honorable lives on the earth but "were blinded by the craftiness of men" and were "not valiant in the testimony of Jesus." Those who did not receive a testimony of Jesus while on earth, but who could have done so except for their neglect, are also heirs to the Terrestrial Kingdom (D&C 76:72-74, 79). They obtain not "the crown over the kingdom of our God" (D&C 76:79) and remain without exaltation in their saved condition (D&C 132:17). They "receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father," and their kingdom differs from the celestial "as the moon differs from the sun" (D&C 76:77-78).

LEVEL #3 Telestial Heaven - In the Telestial Kingdom-the lowest degree of glory, while the inhabitants do not receive the ministrations of Jesus Christ or enjoy the presence of God the Father, they do enjoy the companionship of the Holy Ghost-the third member of the Godhead.[31] Williams said:

"Within the telestial glory there will be varying degrees of glory even as the stars vary in brightness as we see them. It embraces those who on earth willfully reject the gospel of Jesus Christ, and commit serious sins such as murder, adultery, lying, and loving to make a lie (but yet do not commit the unpardonable sin), and who do not repent in mortality. They will be cleansed in the postmortal spirit world or spirit prison before the resurrection (D&C 76:81-85, 98-106; Rev. 22:15). Telestial inhabitants as innumerable as the stars will come forth in the last resurrection and then be 'servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come' (D&C 76:112). Although the least of the degrees of glory, yet the Telestial Kingdom 'surpasses all understanding' (D&C 76:89)."[32]

Also We have The "Outer Darkness" for those who commit the "unpardonable sin"

Hope that clears it up for you...

Josh B)