Women shall not put on the Armor of a Soldier.

[Hala401]

I saw the above statement one time at a very conservative Christian web site, and have seen things that make me think that the statement could be valid. In fact having volunteered at the VA and been round veterans, both male and female, well ...

I wonder what the LDS take on women in the military is?

[annewandering]

Well my daughter is a soldier so I suppose my answer might be biased. She is married and has three kids. Sometimes things are rough but it is a job and she does it well.

I see no place she is neglectful.

It is an honorable job. I do not see any reason that God would object to her choice to stand for this country.

[Guest]

My opinion is probably unpopular but I don't think that combat is a place for women. If they can do other things in the military, great, but combat generally takes things that are more suited for men and their strengths.

[annewandering]

Combat is not good for anyone. I can speak from experience in my family on this. Most women are not in actual fighting although they have been cleared for that as of a month or so ago. My daughter does retrieval and diesel mechanics. Her first choice would have been sniper but she was not allowed to do that for which I am personally glad but that is me not her.

[Guest]

I'm not just talking about the safety of the woman in combat, but of her unit. Of course combat is horrible for everyone, but I believe also safer for everyone if left to the men.

[Tyler90AZ]

My opinion is probably unpopular but I don't think that combat is a place for women. If they can do other things in the military, great, but combat generally takes things that are more suited for men and their strengths.

Don't worry the military doesn't think combat is a place for women either. They are not allowed to hold a Combat Specific MOS(job) like Infantry or Combat Engineer. That doesn't mean they don't get put in modern combat situations. Think like Iraq, where women sometimes had to take on Combat Roles. Even sometimes females, if they were military police, were designated to go on Combat Missions. Even then they weren't hard(comparatively to WW2, Vietnamese, Korean wars). Although most of the time they were not designated to go on Combat Specific missions. Also if we had another heavy combat war, like WWII, they wouldn't be invading Normandy.

[Tyler90AZ]

We don't need no more Jessica Lynch situations. Don't get me wrong it was right to save her, but we can't always do that. They moved ten times quicker because a female was captured then a man. Imagine a war like Vietnam where there are many pows. It would be impossible to save every women as quick as the public expects. If it was a guy he wouldn't have been saved. Think Bowe Bergdahl...

[Hala401]

Generally speaking, I am very opposed to women even in uniform, because I know that rear echelon situations have a way of degrading rapidly in this day and age. Secondly, men are dangerous even in a civilian situation. Take them and put them in a high adrenalin, high stress situation and you have someone that is extremely dangerous.

I like men a lot, but I also know what they do to destress after a dangerous situation. Even in relief work in places where a hurricane, or earth quake, things can get tense. And in these situations, in a mixed population things can get really strange after weeks of digging out the dead, and seeing families in grief.

[Guest]

Could a woman lift and carry a fallen soldier to safety?

[Desertknight]

Could a woman lift and carry a fallen soldier to safety?

I guess it would depend on size/strength of the soldiers, male and female. I tend to agree with your earlier post, but I have worked with some very fine women soldiers. I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of women in combat though, but that boat has sailed. Women are barred from very few combat assignments except things like front line infantry, but have served by the tens of thousands, in our decade of war, actively engaged in direct combat in almost every other capacity.

[Guest]

When you consider their equipment and clothing, I would say a woman who is able to lift another soldier, man or woman, would be extremely exceptional. And she probably wouldn't be able to carry him/her far.

[Tyler90AZ]

When you consider their equipment and clothing, I would say a woman who is able to lift another soldier, man or woman, would be extremely exceptional. And she probably wouldn't be able to carry him/her far.

There would need to be an all female company, battalion or brigade.

[Tyler90AZ]

I guess it would depend on size/strength of the soldiers, male and female. I tend to agree with your earlier post, but I have worked with some very fine women soldiers. I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of women in combat though, but that boat has sailed. Women are barred from very few combat assignments except things like front line infantry, but have served by the tens of thousands, in our decade of war, actively engaged in direct combat in almost every other capacity.

Are you talking about guard duty? Aside from MPs they are not given combat assignments.

[Hala401]

Could a woman lift and carry a fallen soldier to safety?

In spite of the fact that humans are getting larger, I do not think that a woman who is 5'4" could pick up a soldier that is 6'2" and carry him to safety. Plus, I have seen soldiers, even women, with all sorts of injuries suffered in combat, even if they are not shot. Jumping from planes and Helicopters in high stress situations makes hamburger of knees, hips and backs.

With these sorts of injuries, do we really expect a young LDS girl to come home from two tours in Iraq, and then bear six children; all the while being sweet, motherly, and nurturing after she has seen human beings eviscerated by Road Side Bombs?

Especially, in this day and age, I would think that we would be expending much more energy in finding peaceful solutions.

I know that many women of today are fed ideas that tell them that they can do anything a man can do, and maybe many of us can. But should we and how will it affect our nurturing skills?

[Hala401]

When you consider their equipment and clothing, I would say a woman who is able to lift another soldier, man or woman, would be extremely exceptional. And she probably wouldn't be able to carry him/her far.

There is that and when the moon visits some of us, it is quite compromising.

[pam]

Generally speaking, I am very opposed to women even in uniform, because I know that rear echelon situations have a way of degrading rapidly in this day and age. Secondly, men are dangerous even in a civilian situation. Take them and put them in a high adrenalin, high stress situation and you have someone that is extremely dangerous.

I like men a lot, but I also know what they do to destress after a dangerous situation. Even in relief work in places where a hurricane, or earth quake, things can get tense. And in these situations, in a mixed population things can get really strange after weeks of digging out the dead, and seeing families in grief.

I can respect your opinion however, having been around the military the majority of my life and having worked with many females in the military, they are so many that are highly committed to their jobs. I've seen many work as hard if not harder than some of their male counterparts.

Plus I kind of take offense that you seem to have lumped all men into one category. Not all men are dangerous in high stressed situations. Not all destress in the ways that you have insinuated.

I think women hold an important part in our armed forces. Do I think they belong in battle? Front line infantry probably not. But there are many women who are put in some kind of battle situations quite often and manage to do quite well.

[Desertknight]

Are you talking about guard duty? Aside from MPs they are not given combat assignments.

Women are now assigned to virtually every MOS except the front line infantry positions of the army and marines. They serve actively in U.S. Army artillery batteries, as Air Cav pilots, etc. In both the USAF and in the US Navy, there are no longer any restrictions in any field. I've worked with female fighter pilots and women serve on active combat vessels of every kind. Indeed, the navy only restricted them from submarines until 2010, but that restriction was removed and they are serving on those vessels as well.

[Guest]

On the practical side of things:

It only takes a handful of men but a lot of women to replenish human population in one generation.

Having only a handful of women is going to take a lot of generations.

So, when you need an ongoing army, you send out the men.

And on another practical side of things:

Mixed front-line combat personnel, in my opinion, is not a good thing. First, you put everyone in danger because the natural instinct of a man is to protect the woman to his detriment and the detriment of everyone around him (goes hand in hand with survival of the species as mentioned above). So, one might think, well, men are not mindless robots, they can learn to treat women as equals in combat in every way. Well, I don't think that's going to be good for mankind either. It's basically training a man to shed his instinctive nature of species survival... which is supposed to be the reason he is in combat in the first place. Now, all female combat personnel might not be too bad. Unless of course you're pitting brute physical strength.

But yes, there are very important military jobs for women. I was an S2 in our mandatory army training in the Philippines. I had a higher score in officer's training than our commander but I couldn't be commander because I'm a woman. S2 - intelligence - was perfectly suited for me being this logical, analytical, programmer-type person and all. I actually enjoyed doing that stuff for that one year of training and I did a decent job of it even if I had really no desire to be in the military at all.

Our S4 was also a woman. She did all the supplies and such. She enjoyed it too.

But yes, it was a training program for a bunch of 15-year-olds. It's just a teeny drop in the bucket of the real deal. But, that experience kinda made me think of where women will be good at in the military.

Edited May 29, 2012 by anatess

[annewandering]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/27/us/2-women-sue-over-armys-combat-ban.html

By keeping women out of combat, they are being held back in their chosen career. I agree with these women. It is not up to us to restrict people from doing what they are capable of doing.

Women can carry people. Lol all it takes is knowing how. Trust me these ladies work hard and are tough.

By the way there is no sex on the battlefield. Everyone is your buddy not your date. If you could even tell the difference in full gear. You are taught to protect your buddies back. All your buddies. And that is everyone. No one lets anyone be unprotected. Male or female.

Women may not be officially in the battles but they are. Even in the roughest ones. Most wont be but there are plenty that are in it want or not.

Edited May 29, 2012 by annewandering

[Tyler90AZ]

In spite of the fact that humans are getting larger, I do not think that a woman who is 5'4" could pick up a soldier that is 6'2" and carry him to safety. Plus, I have seen soldiers, even women, with all sorts of injuries suffered in combat, even if they are not shot. Jumping from planes and Helicopters in high stress situations makes hamburger of knees, hips and backs.

I agree with you about a woman, generally, not being able to carry a man to safety.

Jumping from planes even in a non-stress situation can make your knees, hip and back hamburger. Besides, is jumping out of a plane ever a non-stress situation?

With these sorts of injuries, do we really expect a young LDS girl to come home from two tours in Iraq, and then bear six children; all the while being sweet, motherly, and nurturing after she has seen human beings eviscerated by Road Side Bombs?

I don't think the church will ever tell us an official stance. They like to let us make our own decisions... DARN, that is how I get in trouble!

You do make a really great point though! I don't think the church could officially endorse women joining the military. Not that women are not capable, just that it is contrary to some teachings. We believe that women should stay at home and rear families. They can't really do that if they go to combat.

Especially, in this day and age, I would think that we would be expending much more energy in finding peaceful solutions.

This church is a church of peace! I think we should all agree with that!

I know that many women of today are fed ideas that tell them that they can do anything a man can do, and maybe many of us can. But should we and how will it affect our nurturing skills?

If you think about it they can do almost anything! The only exception would be related to their physical limitations.

[Tyler90AZ]

Women are now assigned to virtually every MOS except the front line infantry positions of the army and marines. They serve actively in U.S. Army artillery batteries, as Air Cav pilots, etc. In both the USAF and in the US Navy, there are no longer any restrictions in any field. I've worked with female fighter pilots and women serve on active combat vessels of every kind. Indeed, the navy only restricted them from submarines until 2010, but that restriction was removed and they are serving on those vessels as well.

Ok I see, I have to take your word on all that. I was just saying as far as the Army, they can not join as Infantry or Combat Engineer.

[annewandering]

Ok I see, I have to take your word on all that. I was just saying as far as the Army, they can not join as Infantry or Combat Engineer.

Every army soldier in Iraq and in Afganistan is infantry. Its just a fact of life. Doesnt matter what their training is. I didnt understand why my kids were infantry when that was not their mo. That is when they told me EVERYONE is infantry in practice.

[Desertknight]

Ok I see, I have to take your word on all that. I was just saying as far as the Army, they can not join as Infantry or Combat Engineer.

Right, Combat Engineer is also restricted to men as well.

I looked about and there really isn't just one good link of info. Wiki has this for what it's worth.

[annewandering]

Combat jobs open to female soldiers this week - Army News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Army Times

Ok this is what I was looking for.

Oh and notice the side bar photo of the woman carrying a fellow soldier over her shoulder. She seems to be doing it fine.

[Desertknight]

Every army soldier in Iraq and in Afganistan is infantry. Its just a fact of life. Doesnt matter what their training is. I didnt understand why my kids were infantry when that was not their mo. That is when they told me EVERYONE is infantry in practice.

There is much truth to that, especially in the type of warfare we have been engaged in, in Afghanistan and Iraq.