Playboy In 1958.

[BenRaines]

Oh I get it. Since I am a strong Republican in my beliefs I can't be compassionate. :)

I guess for some you can't be a compassionate conservative.

Ben Raines

[sgallan]

Wrong thread Ben!

[BenRaines]

No problem is I can't read in low light. I thought is said compassion and not comparison. My mistake.

Ben Raines

[Guest McDreamy]

Michalangelo was putting David in the buff and painting the Sistine Chapel full of nude diety long long before Playboy issued its 1958 spread and we think of those works as priceless masterpieces.

Almost every figure in the Sistine Chapel was nude before the Roman Catholic Church employed another artist to go back over it and add fabrics in just the right places.

I dont think its the volumn of skin we see but the lust in our heart that matters. I never get arroused watching the Pigmy people prance around nude in the jumgles of Africa but put Cindy Crawford in a fur coat with a scarf, long pants gloves, and snow shoes and I'm still gonna find myself needing a cold shower!!

So, where do we draw the line between art and porn?

[BenRaines]

Yeah but little pigmy men probably get excited about the dance and could care less about Cindy Crawford.

Ben Raines

[prisonchaplain]

So you can't smoke but can watch naked dancers while you eat your food.

I find it odd you find watching strippers as worse than smoking. I think I can safley document more people dying before their time by smoking, than by watching strippers. So when you say LOL..... what is it you find so funny?

I'm actually going to "bite." Although you express surprise, I'm guessing you know that most conservative religious folks would find viewing erotic dancers more "sinful" than damaging the body with cigarrettes. The potential moral harm to family, and to one's spiritual condition is far greater with the erotica. Jesus told us that to even lust after a woman is adultery.

They're both bad, but for Christian conservatives, the erotica is worse.

[BenRaines]

I guess the interesting point here is that Nevada is a fairly conservative state. It can be seen in their voting. Here in Nevada we allow gambling and the other things that come with it because it keeps us from having to pay state taxes.

So the state votes as a conservativfe block but has some of the most lax laws and enforcement regarding gambling, prostitution and everything in between.

I think Nevada is the only state where prostitution is legal. Legal brothels less than 45 minutes from where I live in Nye county.

Ben Raines

[Fiannan]

Smoking or viewing strippers -- I don't really have an easy answer on that one. Smoking can be expensive -- thus draining a family's resources and most divorces have financial insecurity as the underlying factor. Smoking is socially unacceptable in the state I am from and restricts your ability to get jobs even if you only smoke on your free time -- another financial danger. Then smoking can give you cancer and take you away from your parental responsibilities. Most men needing viagra are or were heavy smokers so smoking can affect your relationship even there.

On this one I'd have to say that smoking is more dangerous than occasionally going to a strip club -- and I will note that where I live I wouldn't even know where to find a strip club, so don't assume anything based on my answer.

[Dr T]

It seems to me that strip clubs are not without negative effects. I'm sure people are attracted to the beauty and the "sultry entertainment" as nothing but a pastime but I think it can be damaging on multiple levels. Primarily interpersonally and relationally. I don't know for sure-this is only my opinion as I have not read any of the literature on strip club/porn. I suspect that the possible consequences would be a desensitization to someone's partner. From there, a raising tolerance and intensity of sexual "entertainment." The danger there might come from extramarital sex (other woman, street prostitutes, multiple partners, group sex, gay sex, etc.) This can not only be dangerous and punishable by law (sometimes), not everyone can handle this and their relationships can deteriorate. They might pass on STD, interpersonal difficulties, trust issues, etc. At its core, I see the potential of undermining a trusting/loving relationship which is essential for community.

[Maureen]

I'm actually going to "bite." Although you express surprise, I'm guessing you know that most conservative religious folks would find viewing erotic dancers more "sinful" than damaging the body with cigarrettes. The potential moral harm to family, and to one's spiritual condition is far greater with the erotica. Jesus told us that to even lust after a woman is adultery.

They're both bad, but for Christian conservatives, the erotica is worse.

I find this odd, because I think that smoking is more directly harmful to the family. Second hand smoke is probably the main cause of asthma in children. The member of the family can always leave the strip club but those cigarettes are always too close for comfort, IMO.

M.

[prisonchaplain]

Smoking or viewing strippers -- I don't really have an easy answer on that one. Smoking can be expensive -- thus draining a family's resources and most divorces have financial insecurity as the underlying factor. Smoking is socially unacceptable in the state I am from and restricts your ability to get jobs even if you only smoke on your free time -- another financial danger. Then smoking can give you cancer and take you away from your parental responsibilities. Most men needing viagra are or were heavy smokers so smoking can affect your relationship even there.

On this one I'd have to say that smoking is more dangerous than occasionally going to a strip club -- and I will note that where I live I wouldn't even know where to find a strip club, so don't assume anything based on my answer.

One simple question, Fiannan. Which activity would your wife react the most strongly too?

I find this odd, because I think that smoking is more directly harmful to the family. Second hand smoke is probably the main cause of asthma in children. The member of the family can always leave the strip club but those cigarettes are always too close for comfort, IMO.

M.

Maureen, you'd rather find out your husband was a was going strip clubs once a month for the last three years, than to discover that he was a smoker? Really?

Of course, you painted the scenario of the open smoker who inflicts his habit on his family. Even then, the danger is gradual and long-term. For families of strong, conservative religous mores, a wife finding out her husband was into "live porn," could lead to a tremondous crisis. It would be near akin to finding out about an adulterous affair.

Personally, and I'm unique as a minister, I'd much rather be told by my authorities to attend smoking cessation classes than step down from ministry for a minimum of one year, submit to full-time counseling, with the potential of being declared unsuccessfully rehabilitated, plus the incredible shame brought upon me and my family as a "fallen minister." Strip clubs do not rise to the same level as what happened to Rev. Ted Haggard, but it would be of the same genre.

[Maureen]

Maureen, you'd rather find out your husband was a was going strip clubs once a month for the last three years, than to discover that he was a smoker? Really?

Definitely! Smoking, especially around small children is a horrible thing to inflict on them. (I want to smack people when I see them smoking around brand new babies) My husband did smoke for many years but quit when our daughter was a baby. He also had no choice, since I have a respiratory disease. I prefer breathing than worrying that my husband may view strippers occasionally. One of my husband's friend's wife is an ex-stripper (late thirties). She is not the most rational person and my husband barely tolerates her and her antics. He may subconsciously see all strippers as he sees this woman; I have no worries. And my husband rarely goes to strip clubs, he would rather play paintball and not smoke.

M.