Hell

[CommanderSouth]

I might as well throw this out before I go to bed.

I had a tough time figuring out hell in LDS theology. I have basically put my desire for a full understanding on the shelf, but now my niece by marriage is investigating and she has already asked about the Rich Man and Lazarus (one passage I once used in an argument with a JW about the nature of hell as a literal fiery pit, ironic now it seems), I answered as best I could but I can't truly answer the question.

Have there been any books on hell, or any studies saying this is Spirit Prison, this is outer darkness in relation to the biblical and BoM references to hell?

I just wish the Protestant vs LDS views on the topic weren't so disparate, but just because the truth is hard to piece together doesn't mean it's any less true...

I appreciate the insights and thank you for your time.

[bytebear]

I usually just ask when judgement happens? does it happen after the resurrection? and what are we doing in between death and the resurrection. The LDS answers are the only ones I have found that make sense, and fit with the Bible.

[Bensalem]

I might as well throw this out before I go to bed.

I had a tough time figuring out hell in LDS theology. I have basically put my desire for a full understanding on the shelf, but now my niece by marriage is investigating and she has already asked about the Rich Man and Lazarus (one passage I once used in an argument with a JW about the nature of hell as a literal fiery pit, ironic now it seems), I answered as best I could but I can't truly answer the question.

Have there been any books on hell, or any studies saying this is Spirit Prison, this is outer darkness in relation to the biblical and BoM references to hell?

I just wish the Protestant vs LDS views on the topic weren't so disparate, but just because the truth is hard to piece together doesn't mean it's any less true...

I appreciate the insights and thank you for your time.

From Mormon Doctrine by Bruce R. McConkie: Hell is "that part of the spirit world inhabited by wicked spirits..." which "will have an end. As John saw when he wrote, "death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works." (Rev. 20:13)

Then, "death and hell were cast into the lake of fire." (Rev. 20:14)

[Dove]

A chapter of scripture which comes to my mind is Doctrine and Covenants 76. It explains the three degrees of glory as well as the characteristics and traits of those assigned to each kingdom. It should make good reading for you if you are trying to understand "hell" from an LDS perspective.

From what I understand; yes, there is a "hell" for those who have not received, or who have rejected their Savior....This suffering is only temporary. Once a person here has suffered for their sins in full, (they suffer for their sins because they refused the atonement in their lives) they are then assigned to the lowest kingdom, which is a kingdom of glory. But this kingdom of glory is far lesser than the glory of the celestial kingdom. Missionaries have often used the Biblical verse about the different firmaments of heaven and how they're likened to the "sun, moon and stars" in the differences of glory.

The Doctrine and Covenants is a great resource for finding the latter-day revelations on the concept of "hell" and what it means for us....A great place to start would be to look up "hell" in the index and look up the scripture references for the Doctrine and Covenants.

Best of wishes in your searching

Dove

PS~another scripture supporting my claim that those who refuse to repent and accept the Savior and His atonement in their lives suffer for their own sins is Doctrine and Covenants 19:15-20.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Dove
Adding my PS

[Eleven]

A lot of uneducated mormons have think there is no such thing as hell. This derived from the doctrine of "outer darkness"

I remember some of my friends saying " i dont believe in hell, but i'd never want to go there!" lol

Anyways, hell IS real. all of the Fire and Brimstone both the Book of mormon and Bible talk about, The LDS theology agrees with it. To my understanding, if you go to DC 19, It talks about that if someone does not accept Christs payment for their sins " They must suffer even as i God, the greatest of all"

what this is to mean is that After judgement, if you did not accept Christ, you will go through a Purging in Hell. The fire will cleanse you, and however many sins you did.. is however long you stay in there... kinda..

but you get the point. Hell Is NOT forever though. Once your sins are burned out of you and you have paid for them , you will be thrust into the lowest Kingdom, The Telestial, which is still a magnificent Kingdom but is not the highest.

Remember, ANYONE who has ever walked on this earth and gained a body were numbered with those who accepted Christ in the beginning of the premortal existence. All of us were promised an eternal body and a Kingdom no matter what.. as long as we didnt deny the spirit or Christ. This is where the Doctrine of being "saved" comes from. You are saved from eternal death and hell, but being saved DOES NOT mean you are EXALTED. You will still be in heaven. you just wont be in the highest.

[tubaloth]

Hell

Latter-day revelations speak of hell in at least two ways.

First, it is another name for spirit prison, a place in the postmortal

spirit world for those who have “died in their sins,

without a knowledge of the truth, or in transgression, having

rejected the prophets” (D&C 138:32). This is a temporary

state in which spirits will be taught the gospel and have the

opportunity to repent and accept ordinances of salvation that

are performed for them in temples (see D&C 138:30–35).

Those who accept the gospel may dwell in paradise until the

Resurrection. After they are resurrected and judged, they will

receive the degree of glory of which they are worthy. Those

who choose not to repent but who are not sons of perdition

will remain in spirit prison until the end of the Millennium,

when they will be freed from hell and punishment and be

resurrected to a telestial glory (see D&C 76:81– 85).

Second, the word hell is used to refer to outer darkness,

which is the dwelling place of the devil, his angels, and the

sons of perdition (see D&C 29:36–38; 76:28–33). Sons of

perdition are those who receive “no forgiveness in this world

nor in the world to come—having denied the Holy Spirit

after having received it, and having denied the Only

Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves

and put him to an open shame” (D&C 76:34–35; see

also verses 31–33, 36–37). Such individuals will not inherit a

place in any kingdom of glory; for them the conditions of hell

remain (see D&C 76:38; 88:24, 32).

From True to the Faith

I'm not sure what part are you confused with?

[Martain]

I recently had an institute lesson regarding the spirit world and without sharing all the scriptures he used to teach the lesson, I'll try to boil down what he taught.

We know that there are three major classifcations when it comes to degree's of Glory. These degrees are Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial.

My institute teacher taught that likewise there are three major classifications when it comes to degree's in the Spirit World. These being Paradise (Celestial), Prison (Terrestrial), and Hell (Telestial).

He then basically told us to read D&C 76 & 88 under this light and consider the definitions of each degree as not only the definition of who will receive which degree of glory but also as the definition of how the Spirit World is divided as well.

Then for those of us who believed that Spirit Prison was the same as Hell rather than two different places he asked, "Do you really believe that Mother Teresa and Hitler were sent to the same place?".

If you study these sections I'll be interested in hearing your thoughts =).

[rameumptom]

There is a temporary hell in Spirit Prison (in the Spirit World), and there is a permanent hell called Outer Darkness.

On the story of Lazarus and the rich man, there was no way across the gulf at that time. Only Christ could bridge that gulf, and he had not accomplished his work yet. How does one go from Spirit Prison to Paradise? By having faith in Christ and repenting fully of one's sins. This is called Justification, or being made sinless in Christ. Through this process, we receive the gift of grace, which saves us from death and hell without any works of our own. As in Alma 36, Alma suffered in hell until he believed and repented, after which he was instantly rescued.

There is also the process of Sanctification. This is where we grow in faith and repentance, make and receive covenants and ordinances, and receive greater portions of the Holy Spirit, which makes us more and more holy. In D&C 93, we learn that Christ went from grace to grace, receiving grace for grace until he obtained a fullness, and we must do the same. Obedience and keeping commandments become a natural outcome of our becoming holy.

From Alma 12, Alma 36, Mormon 9 and other scripture, we find that we make our own hell. When we refuse to accept the grace of the atonement, and instead try to find our own method of salvation and happiness, we end up miserable (like Satan 2 Nephi 2). Only when we quit trying to have things our own way and embrace the atonement that Christ offers to us, can we have true happiness.

For Alma, hell was facing his sins head on, realizing what he had done and knowing there was no escaping what he did on his own. He did not escape that hell until after he believed and repented. Outer Darkness is reserved for those who refuse to ever repent and embrace Christ. They choose to be his eternal enemy, loving Satan more than God, even as Cain (Moses 5).

D&C 76 teaches that the Telestial are those who are worthy of hell and will suffer it until they repent, after which they receive the grace and gift of salvation in Christ.

Joe Spencer discusses a lot of this in depth in a series of blog posts, as he reviews Stephen Robinson's book, Believing Christ. It will help you understand the importance of grace, and how we make our own hell by simply rejecting the atonement that is always there waiting for us to humbly accept through faith and repentance.

[Misshalfway]

Hell is were I found myself this morning in traffic.

I believe it can also be found at family parties and on blind dates.

[C_T_R]

A lot of uneducated mormons have think there is no such thing as hell. This derived from the doctrine of "outer darkness"

I remember some of my friends saying " i dont believe in hell, but i'd never want to go there!" lol

Anyways, hell IS real. all of the Fire and Brimstone both the Book of mormon and Bible talk about, The LDS theology agrees with it. To my understanding, if you go to DC 19, It talks about that if someone does not accept Christs payment for their sins " They must suffer even as i God, the greatest of all"

what this is to mean is that After judgement, if you did not accept Christ, you will go through a Purging in Hell. The fire will cleanse you, and however many sins you did.. is however long you stay in there... kinda..

but you get the point. Hell Is NOT forever though. Once your sins are burned out of you and you have paid for them , you will be thrust into the lowest Kingdom, The Telestial, which is still a magnificent Kingdom but is not the highest.

Remember, ANYONE who has ever walked on this earth and gained a body were numbered with those who accepted Christ in the beginning of the premortal existence. All of us were promised an eternal body and a Kingdom no matter what.. as long as we didnt deny the spirit or Christ. This is where the Doctrine of being "saved" comes from. You are saved from eternal death and hell, but being saved DOES NOT mean you are EXALTED. You will still be in heaven. you just wont be in the highest.

I agree with you that hell is real. I just have a few thoughts I wanted to share that make a little more sense to me, but I can't verify they're necessarily true.

I was never told hell wasn't real myself, but "outer darkness" was another name for it from what I gathered. You read about baptism by water and also baptism by fire. My personal belief is that is specific trials and things you go through here.. that are extremely difficult.. but if you make it out, you're better and purer for it.

I'm just not sure it's AS tangibly literal as we're reading it. God's character doesn't strike me as one that would find benefit from slapping someone on the hand and saying they're forgiven. Just like some parents abuse their children to teach them a lesson and how that is the opposite way to teach anything.. especially goodness? To become more pure? I have a hard time believing that people that are in Hell are going to sit in a volcano pit burning and screaming and that THAT would cleanse them from their evil.

That isn't how God cleanses people. "Outer darkness" I believe reflects the state of mind they'll be in.. that really, they, at least some of them, experience even here. Totally unaware of what life is about, the glorious plan of happiness, that they are sons and daughters of a King, and that they can be *free*. It's like putting a veil over your eyes.. how empty things would feel.. but also.. how empty they feel here. And as far as fiery brimstone and the traditional pain of hell? I believe, once again, it'll be that they're in that frame of mind. Dealing with and atoning for their own sins? Is that possible? All I know is the pain and the difficulty I face when trying to overcome things and be better.. it feels like that metaphor of the blacksmith who smelts metals and burns away the dross, leaving the pure gold or silver. I think it will be much more on a psychological basis than a literal physical lava hot tub. I can only imagine the guilt over one sin that I denied my Savior could fix... the pain and agony.. wanting to fix it and make it better.. THAT sounds like hell to me.. and one with a true purpose of learning.. of understanding.. of truly getting it and becoming purer. BUT, they'd still have to choose to become purer. I think they'll only experience that hellish frame-of-mind until they have a change of heart. And I'm not sure those that actually qualify for that.. will be in any rush to change it.. even then.

In the same vein I want to suggest that exhaltation isn't necessarily what we receive. I believe it's what we become. Daily choices, the desires of our hearts, living in harmony with the wisdom of the principles taught by the church.. You know they say this life is a time to prepare to meet God.. and how else would we be able to if not by putting off the 'natural man' and by our choices become exalted? I'm not saying we have the power to exhalt ourselves per se. I'm just getting at the notion of dying and then becoming exhalted just like that.. it doesn't seem consistent with God's style.

They say before the Judgement and Resurrection we'll go to Spirit Paradise or Spirit Prison. I think that means within our own minds. President Ezra Taft Benson said, "Some of the greatest battles you will face will be fought within the silent chambers of your own soul” (“In His Steps,” p. 60). There won't be a way to numb out and try to escape the reality of what you've done to yourself and to people.. and that's a scary thought! All I feel is that it'll be easier, and so much better to deal with sins here than there.

"[You will receive] according to [your] desire" (Alma 29:4; emphasis added)."[And you will receive] according to [your] wills" (Alma 29:4; emphasis added). "I'm not sure we grasp how the final judgment will reflect our choices! But my desires and choices really will be honored! How manifestly just of God! How trembling for me! [...]Are my desires sufficiently educated to choose wisely (see Alma 13:3, 10)? Could the further education of my desires be the most important form of continuing education?"

Why then do some actually choose to remain "willingly . . . ignorant," such as of impending Messianic events (2 Peter 3:5; emphasis added)? Yes, some seem to say, "My mind is made up, so don't confuse me with cosmic facts. Instead, let me compartmentalize my life and my choices." One cannot stay, however, on that naïve plane of understanding very long when he or she reads these next sobering words. They are so ripe with implications. They inform us that some rebels are simply "not willing to enjoy that which they might have received" (D&C 88:32; emphasis added). That cold wind is really blowing at the edges of my mind now. Foregoing enjoyment? But why? Knowingly turning down something vastly better? Why?

So this is a real war—with real casualties—in which there can be no real pacifists.

-Neal Maxwell, Free To Choose

Having said all this, I truly believe this statement made by President J. Reuben Clark, Jr.:

I believe that in his justice and mercy [God] will give us the maximum reward for our acts, give us all that he can give, and in the reverse, I believe that he will impose upon us the minimum penalty which it is possible for him to impose. [CR, October 1953, 84]

[Eleven]

CTR

You've shared some really good insight. I cant say I agree with it fully, Honestly i feel that we are both right. For how many references there are in the scriptures of some fiery place called Hell, one must take it literal. Some one had quoted the story of Lazarus and the king or whoever it was from the book of luke. lazarus was taken to Heaven because of his lowly life he lived on this earth, and the pampered King was in Hell, quenched for thirst and begging that Lazarus bring him water for how hot it was.

I believe everything you have described is all of the spiritual Hell that we will go through. You cant forget the Physical Hell as well.

Remember what Christ said in DC 19 "YOU MUST SUFFER EVEN AS I "

Christ's suffering definitely wasnt just spiritual.

The way I interpret Hell is sitting inches away from fire. Its extremely uncomfortable... your not getting burned, but your close enough that its agony after a while from all the exhaustion and fatigue of the heat. I do agree with you, i doubt Ill have a pot that says "Reserved for Eleven" filled with lava

[rameumptom]

Hell is were I found myself this morning in traffic.

I believe it can also be found at family parties and on blind dates.

I went on a blind date once. She was so darned ugly that I had to put my eyes out...

[Vort]

I went on a blind date once. She was so darned ugly that I had to put my eyes out...

I went on a blind date once -- never again. When I tried to kiss her, she hit me with her cane. Then her dog attacked.

[rameumptom]

Did the dog attack you with the cane, also?