What are our rights when being "searched"?

[MarginOfError]

What do you classify as not very long? Because DC gun ban has existed since 1975. And guns are still not off the street.

I'm sorry, I confused the court case from a few years ago for the gun ban. My mistake.

Crime rate in DC dropped in the 90's when police made headway on getting rid of crack. Also, statistics always point to poverty going hand in hand with crime, so crime in DC is concentrated on the poor areas.

So, the important thing to note is that gun restrictions do not solve crime. Banning guns from anywhere does not solve crimes. Therefore, feeling "safer" because guns are banned is an illusion.

It's just as much an illusion as feeling safer because people own guns.

Raising the quality of lives of Americans has always been the most proven crime fighter. Case in point - North Dakota. Low poverty rate, low crime.

Agreed. Please note that putting guns in people's hands won't lower crime.

[MarginOfError]

It is based on my studies of D&C as a whole about what the Lord expected and what resulted and what is coming because of neglect/failure. If you don't know what I mean, then study the parable of the nobleman in D&C 101 for starters. Seek the Spirit for your guide. Zion will be redeemed, but we are a long way off.

I know I seem to be cherry picking scriptures right now. But who will not fight with the sword shall flee to Zion. Of course, we don't have swords today...

D&C 45: 68 And it shall come to pass among the wicked, that every man that will not take his sword against his neighbor must needs flee unto Zion for safety.

A cleansing has begun and those who don't see it will likely fall to it. That is all. Bini, I only wanted to share some videos about our rights when being searched. I apologize for my videos that spawned this tangent.

Ah, the old, "If you would just read and study with the Spirit, you'll reach the same conclusions I have" line.

As if to say that I've never read or studied with the Spirit.

I would like to reinterpret--"If you would read and study on the same hobby horses I ride, you'll reach the same conclusions I have." Now that's a statement I completely agree with.

[skalenfehl]

Ah, the old, "If you would just read and study with the Spirit, you'll reach the same conclusions I have" line.

I apologize. I haven't slept yet. I did not mean to imply that you do not study with the Spirit. Please forgive me.

Edited August 10, 2012 by skalenfehl

[Guest]

I will also continue to hold that anyone advocating that we have to have our guns in order to protect ourselves from the big bad government is deluding themselves about their chances of winning a war against the US military.

From my experience:

President Marcos declared Martial Law in 1972 and banned guns. Filipinos stayed oppressed in this dictatorship for a long long time without a means to defend themselves.

In 1986, the unarmed population revolted against Marcos. Marcos deployed the Philippine Military with their tanks and such. The people still won - without a single shot fired.

How did that happen? The Philippine Military did not have the guts to shoot at their fellow Filipinos especially when all the tanks are surrounded by a thick wall of Catholic nuns. And President Marcos was too devout of a Catholic to issue an "annihilation of nuns" order...

So yes, I'm not a fan of a gun ban because it does only one thing - strip the good people from a tool for their defense and leaves the bad people with theirs. And yes, I do believe conflicts can be won without it if the good people rise up to their conscience and risk life and limb for righteous freedom.

[Guest]

It's just as much an illusion as feeling safer because people own guns.

Agreed. Please note that putting guns in people's hands won't lower crime.

Agree 100%.

Now, we are on the same page.

Guns don't kill people. People kill people. A gun is like a fork. Just another tool. People might think a fork is not as effective as a gun for self-defense, but there are people who are very very adept with a fork. Okay, I personally have not heard of anybody, but I'm sure one exists out there. :) Now, what I do know - my doctor brother has a higher chance of being able to defend himself with just his scalpel than he has of being able to defend himself with a gun. He's fired a gun probably only about... 5 times in his lifetime... and only because military training is required for men in college in the Philippines.

My father-in-law - a retired Naval officer - trusts his gun more than anything else because he is highly trained at its use. He is also very good with a compact bow - but you don't carry those around - too bulky. My in-law has a conceal carry permit and it is rare that he goes anywhere without his firearm. My husband, on the other hand, trusts his fists more. He believes that the best tool for self defense is the one you are carrying when self defense becomes necessary. It's just like the camera - what's the best camera? A Nikon? A Canon? No. The best camera is the one you happen to be holding when something beautiful catches your eye.

So, different strokes for different folks.

But, back to searches... there was a time when the public schools here were proposing having metal detectors. Interestingly, so many things were banned - guns, of course, knives (even butter knives for your buttered lunch), any sharp objects, etc. etc. But you can carry in a fork. I just thought about it from my paragraph above. LOL.

Edited August 10, 2012 by anatess

[annewandering]

D&C 45: 68 And it shall come to pass among the wicked, that every man that will not take his sword against his neighbor must needs flee unto Zion for safety.

Exactly. The wicked use their swords but the righteous flee to Zion for safety.

[skalenfehl]

Exactly. The wicked use their swords but the righteous flee to Zion for safety.

The wicked who will not fight will flee, not just the righteous. The wicked will also include saints from all nations, foolish and wise virgins.

[NeuroTypical]

Sounds great. I wonder how Zion will be protected from the wicked? I hope it's not by reinacting Alma 24.

...they took their swords, and all the weapons which were used for the shedding of man’s blood, and they did bury them up deep in the earth. ...rather than shed the blood of their brethren they would give up their own lives;

[fast forward three short verses]

...the Lamanites began to fall upon them, and began to slay them with the sword. And thus without meeting any resistance, they did slay a thousand and five of them.

[skalenfehl]

Sounds great. I wonder how Zion will be protected from the wicked? I hope it's not by reinacting Alma 24.

69 And there shall be gathered unto it out of every nation under heaven; and it shall be the only people that shall not be at war one with another.

70 And it shall be said among the wicked: Let us not go up to battle against Zion, for the inhabitants of Zion are terrible; wherefore we cannot stand.

[annewandering]

69 And there shall be gathered unto it out of every nation under heaven; and it shall be the only people that shall not be at war one with another.

70 And it shall be said among the wicked: Let us not go up to battle against Zion, for the inhabitants of Zion are terrible; wherefore we cannot stand.

So given this why would you even consider guns as necessary? Trust in the Lord.

LM, are you saying the people who covenanted with God to never raise arms again were wrong? The problem I have with that story is that the Lord did help them but wouldnt He have blessed them even more if they had refused to allow others to fight for them?

[NeuroTypical]

No I'm not saying that at all. The choices and sacrifices made by the folks in Alma 24 brought great miracles to pass. It's also interesting to note that the sons of these pacifists were the stripling warriors, who marched off to rain death and destruction on their enemies, while protected by God such that none of them were killed.

Zion truly does sound wonderful. I don't like guns, or what they do, or why they're useful. Gimme a better way that would work today, and I'd jump at it.

And it shall be said among the wicked: Let us not go up to battle against Zion, for the inhabitants of Zion are terrible; wherefore we cannot stand.

It sounds to me like Zion will be protected the same way people protect things these days - through superior strength or by instilling fear in their enemies.

[annewandering]

I am reminded of the prophets in Jerusalem during Armageddon. They will hold the huge armies of satan at bay for days by the pure power of God. I feel pretty confident that this is how it will be in Zion. It is the power of God not guns we need to depend on.

[Guest]

Reminds me of the story about the shipwrecked guy telling the boat to go ahead because he is waiting for God to save him.

[annewandering]

Reminds me of the story about the shipwrecked guy telling the boat to go ahead because he is waiting for God to save him.

lol yet we have to find that line somewhere dont we? When it comes to killing I, personally, am going to chose not to kill unless I have no other choice. In fact have. Not killed. Made another choice.

[Guest]

lol yet we have to find that line somewhere dont we? When it comes to killing I, personally, am going to chose not to kill unless I have no other choice. In fact have. Not killed. Made another choice.

I know what you mean. My husband and I get interesting discussions around my views against the death penalty.

[NeuroTypical]

Fortunately for me, my wife makes the same choice every time we get into an argument.

[annewandering]

Fortunately for me, my wife makes the same choice every time we get into an argument.

lol I am glad to hear that!!

[annewandering]

I know what you mean. My husband and I get interesting discussions around my views against the death penalty.

I can imagine. My husband used to be against it now we are both in the center if that is possible. Some extreme cases need the death penalty but only extremes, like Bundy who had a propensity to escape.

[skalenfehl]

Well, anyway, for what it's worth, I abhor violence and could never see me being violent to anyone. But I've also never been a victim of a crime. I probably will never own a gun. I already live amongst the mountain tops so I don't have far to flee. We'll see what happens when push comes to shove. This is a good topic, however it was derailed.

As for rights, you have a right to privacy and officers have no right to search your private property, whether your home, vehicle or person, including pockets, purses, backpacks, etc without reasonable suspicion or probably cause, no matter how manipulative they may be when addressing you. It's their job to find guilty people and they do it well. I just wish more officers honored and upheld their oath of office. Some don't deserve their badges. But I suppose that's what their supervisors are for.