If there is a change in policy regarding Sealings...

[MarginOfError]

My husband and I married 31 years ago in the Lutheran church and the requirement from the Pastor was to take pre-marriage counseling. IIRC, it was a 3 day course, with several speakers. I believe quite a few mainstream Christian church offer pre-marriage counseling classes before performing marriages. Does the LDS church offer pre-marriage counseling?

M.

It does. They call their courses "young men" and "young women"

*Gag*

You can also take a more advanced course called "Preparing for an Eternal Marriage" (one of the Institute of Religion courses), but the content of that course is just as outdated as the material in the "young men" and "young women" courses, not to mention almost entirely devoid of any material produced by experts in the fields of marriage and family development.

*double gag*

[Anddenex]

My next question is, what is the doctrine?

To be sealed in the temple or to have the sealing/sign the official civil marriage document all at once in the temple?

That is a great question.

This is where it really depends on the laws within the land that the members are in. I believe it was JAG who mentioned, or someone else in this thread, as LDS we really don't believe God intended for any civil marriages.

If all of Adams and Eves children followed and obeyed counsel, there would be only temple marriages, or temple sealings.

However, this has not been the case. It is the day and age that we live in that allows for civil marriages.

The doctrine, is get married in the temple. The flexibility is the laws we abide by in the lands we make our dwelling.

If the law requires they be accomplished at the same time, then that is how the church would function in that land.

In America, we are counseled to be married in the Temples first. In Switzerland, where my wife's family is from, I believe they have to be married civilly first, and then they have to wait a year by law anyways before they can be married. If am remembering my wife's words correctly regarding two of her cousins.

Either way great question. I believe this is the doctrine backing this. I honestly, could be wrong.

[Backroads]

That was the best explanation of it I've heard.

[Just_A_Guy]

So far I have come across one blog where the writer states that both his parents and grandparents (all temple worthy) had public ceremonies before being sealed later. I am searching for other sources though.

Thanks; I look forward to your results.

To say that there is one wedding/marriage tradition above all others is just arrogant.

I understand your position, and the irritation that the Mormon view must provoke. And yet, the theology is what it is.

The problem with the current one year waiting period is that it does not apply to all members of the church globally. It applies to North American members, but there are other members who do not have these specific stipulations. Are those doctrines in jeopardy in other countries because they do not follow this policy?

To some extent, yes. But it is a conundrum forced upon us by the various states that have elected not to give LDS temple sealings legal status. The alternative to doing the two-step, civil-first process is either a) dispensing with civil ceremonies entirely, or b) doing the civil ceremony as a legal formality after the temple ceremony. Neither of those options, I think, would really satisfy the concerns that gave rise to the OP here; and they would give rise to a whole other set of issues.

Moreover, on the individual level, a Brazilian couple who first marries civilly in accordance with local law has not "rejected" the opportunity of a temple sealing, because it was never a viable option in the first place. The couple in Orem, Utah? Not so much.

Does the LDS church offer pre-marriage counseling?

I guffawed a bit at MOE's response, but Mormon children really are brought up to expect that someday they'll be married. My experience is that it's pretty routine, in instruction for teenagers and young adults, to take a gospel topic - forgiveness, love, sacrifice, etc - and, at some point in the lesson, consider how that topic applies within the marriage and family relationship. In that sense, Mormons really do begin their pre-marriage counseling from the time they turn enter the young men's/young women's programs.

It might be interesting to see some more secular input into the lessons. But in my line of work I deal with family counselors and early childhood development specialists quite a bit, and I gotta say--while their theoretical input is valuable and fascinating; from a practical standpoint I haven't heard them say much that I haven't been hearing since I was at least twelve.

I do think it's a good idea to sit the happy couple down together and try to have them set some realistic expectations. Some of that tends to go on, informally, during the "living ordinance recommend" interview with the bishop prior to the temple ceremony. But because of their lack of formal training, I doubt most LDS bishops are really equipped to embark on a true pre-marital counseling routine.

[Saguaro]

Keep in mind that even if you get married in the temple without first getting married civilly, there is still a civil and a religious component. On my wedding day before the sealing ceremony we went into a room and sat at a desk with a temple worker, we signed our wedding paperwork and at that moment we were legally and lawfully married. Then, we went to the sealing room and were sealed together for eternity in a religious ceremony. There's no reason, doctrinal or legal, why the two could not happen the same day at different times and places, or a week apart, a month, or a year apart.

[Just_A_Guy]

Keep in mind that even if you get married in the temple without first getting married civilly, there is still a civil and a religious component. On my wedding day before the sealing ceremony we went into a room and sat at a desk with a temple worker, we signed our wedding paperwork and at that moment we were legally and lawfully married. Then, we went to the sealing room and were sealed together for eternity in a religious ceremony.

That would depend on state law. In Utah, you can sign the paperwork in advance, but it is the "solemnization" - i.e., the ceremony - that makes the marriage valid. See generally Utah Code Ann. 30-1-4 et seq.

Like you, I signed my wedding paperwork in an office inside the temple prior to the ceremony. But it was basically a "legal fiction" until the ceremony had actually occurred; done for practical reasons (once you've heard the magic words "man and wife", no one wants to adjourn to the recorder's office to sign some paperwork). If my wife had signed the papers but then said "no" during the sealing, we could have walked out of the temple legally unmarried. Which would be fortunate for all those brides and grooms who get ditched at the altar - LDS or otherwise. Otherwise, they'd have to march from the church straight down to divorce court.

Other states, of course, may vary. But I have no reason to believe Utah's requirement of a formal solemnization is an aberration from the national norm.

Edited October 3, 2012 by Just_A_Guy

[searching_questioner]

Now if we were in a humanly led organisation, the answer to this question would be something like, "ok, we can't make up our minds on what the policy should be, so let's compromise. If you get married on on Mondays' Wednesdays and Fridays, then policy is that you can get sealed as soon as you are married, and if you get married on the on the other days, then you have to wait a year."

[Maureen]

Now if we were in a humanly led organisation, the answer to this question would be something like, "ok, we can't make up our minds on what the policy should be, so let's compromise. If you get married on on Mondays' Wednesdays and Fridays, then policy is that you can get sealed as soon as you are married, and if you get married on the on the other days, then you have to wait a year."

There are principles of the gospel underlying every phase of Church administration. These are not explained in the handbooks. They are found in the scriptures. They are the substance of and the purpose for the revelations.

Procedures, programs, the administrative policies, even some patterns of organization are subject to change. We are quite free, indeed, quite obliged to alter them from time to time. But the principles, the doctrines, never change.

If you over-emphasize programs and procedures that can change, and will change, and must change, and do not understand the fundamental principles of the gospel, which never change, you can be misled.

Principles - Liahona Oct.?Nov. 1985 - liahona

M.

[Jean]

This is an interesting question to me because I did get married in a civil ceremony and 6 days later was sealed in the Mesa Arizona temple. This happened in 1969 in Nebraska where there was no temple close to me at the time. I was a convert of 9 months and my father was a minister. Our bishop wrote to the first presidency and they gave permission for me to do this and have my father perform the ceremony after an interview with the local bishop and stake president.

I didn't get married in a civil ceremony because of all the pomp and circumstances. I was the oldest child in my family and also the oldest granddaughter on my father's side. I had aunts and uncles tell my parents they were making arrangements to come to the ceremony even before the invitations were sent out. It was all about family love for me. In fact, it was at my wedding that my mother's side was all there for the last time before my grandpa died.

The sealing was beautiful -- only my husband and his best friend and wife attended. My patriarchal blessing told me that a temple sealing would make my marriage here in this life more meaningful also. I'm grateful that I was sealed in the temple. I've been married for 43 years now and have absolutely no regrets on how it was handled. I'm glad that my family was able to be there and that my father performed the ceremony. It brought our family closer together and made absolutely no difference to having a forever family.

Gentle Soul