Would You Drink If It Were Permissable?

[shanstress70]

I cheated... Pirates of the Caribbean.

[babygirl]

I cheated... Pirates of the Caribbean.

lol how did ya cheat...and yes!!! ding ding ding you win

[Guest MrsS]

<div class='quotemain'>

...As for coffee and tea, why is it that those with Kidney stones/gallbladder stones are told to quit drinking coffee, tea, sodas that have caffine in them, and chocolate?? Yes they are - because those drinks contribute to and aggrivate the conditions...

Gallstone

Causes:

No clear relationship has been proven between diet and gallstone formation. However, low-fiber, high-cholesterol diets, and diets high in starchy foods have been suggested as contributing to gallstone formation. Other nutritional factors that may increase risk of gallstones include rapid weight loss, constipation, eating fewer meals per day, eating less fish, and low intakes of the nutrients folate, magnesium, calcium, and vitamin C. (J Am Coll Nutr 1997 Feb;16(1):88-95). On the other hand, coffee, wine, fish, and whole grain bread may decrease the risk of gallstones. (Eur J Gastroenterol Hepatol 1996 June;8(6):585-93.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallstone

Kidney stone

Prevention:

Preventive strategies include dietary modifications and sometimes also taking drugs with the goal of reducing excretory load on the kidneys:[3]

· Drinking enough water to make 2 to 2.5 litres of urine per day.

· A diet low in protein, nitrogen and sodium intake.

· Restriction of oxalate-rich foods and maintaining an adequate intake of dietary calcium is recommended. There is equivocal evidence that calcium supplements increase the risk of stone formation, though calcium citrate appears to carry the lowest, if any, risk

· Taking drugs such as thiazides, potassium citrate, magnesium citrate and allopurinol depending on the cause of stone formation.

· Depending on the stone formation disease, vitamin B-6 and orthophosphate supplements may be helpful, although these treatments are generally reserved for those with Hyperoxaluria. Cellulose supplements have also shown potential for reducing kidney stones caused by hypercalciuria (excessive urinary calcium) although today other means are generally used as cellulose therapy is associated with significant side effects.

Certain foods may increase the risk of stones: spinach, rhubarb, chocolate, peanuts, cocoa, tomato juice, grapefruit juice, apple juice, soda (acidic and contains phosphorus), and berries (high levels of oxalate). In the United States, the South has the highest incidence of kidney stones, a region where sweet tea consumption is very common. Other drinks are associated with decreased risk of stones, including wine, lemonade and orange juice, the latter two of which are rich in citrate, a stone inhibitor.…

…Though caffeine does acutely increase urinary calcium excretion, several independent epidemiologic studies have shown that coffee intake overall is protective for stones….

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidney_stones

M.

Maureen, thank you for the quotes from wikipedia, etc. I was stating what three girlfriends have gone through, two with gall stones and one with kidney stones. With each, their Non-Lds Dr's told them to quit with the coffee, tea and all sodas. One did not and she ended up in the hospital for nearly two weeks - she is now following the advice of her Dr.

As I have stated to my Catholic neighbor when he harangues me about not drinking coffee-tea-wine-alcohol and then dumps all the literature on me about how "They"(mortal men) all say the stuff is good for you. begin quote: "Who are mere mortals to contradict God? God, Heavenly Father, has told ME (all of us and the LDS), through His living Prophet, to NOT drink coffee, tea, wine, beer, alcohol. Thus, I(and anyone else who opt to obey Heavenly Father - LDS & non-LDS) choose to obey Father. That is my God given Agency." end quote. (BTW Heavenly Father's living Prophet here on earth is not just the Prophet for the LDS, he is the Worlds Prophet - the same as Abraham, Moses, Peter, Paul, James, etc.)

Since I quit drinking red wines and bourbon I have not had a single migraine! I also had to give up Sharp and Extra Sharp cheeses, roasted nuts, fermented anything( I loved kimchee - but can't eat it anymore because it triggers migraines,same with some pickles and sauerkraut.) I also have to be real careful of vinegars - some of them will trigger a migraine. I no longer have heartburn, and milder forms of headaches - which I noticed shortly after I quit coffee and tea. I learned all this through a long process of elimination - But what I did discover was that red wine and bourbon caused the most severe migraines.

Shantress - quit drinking coffee and tea for one week and take note of what your body does. You will have the shakes, headaches, grouchy-ness, mood swings, erractic sleeping patterns. After two weeks, you will start to taste other foods more acutely. After a month your moods won't be bouncing all over the place. In short - you will have successfully withdrawn from coffee and tea's effects. Just the same as if you had been addicted to alcohol and quit cold turkey.

[shanstress70]

Shantress - quit drinking coffee and tea for one week and take note of what your body does. You will have the shakes, headaches, grouchy-ness, mood swings, erractic sleeping patterns. After two weeks, you will start to taste other foods more acutely. After a month your moods won't be bouncing all over the place. In short - you will have successfully withdrawn from coffee and tea's effects. Just the same as if you had been addicted to alcohol and quit cold turkey.

You forget I used to be LDS, at which time I did not drink coffee or tea. I am not a very addictive person. If I go to visit someone who doesn't have coffee in their house, I'm fine with not having it for a few days. I just don't want to quit drinking coffee or tea... it's something that brings me great pleasure and I have yet to be convinced of any ill effects of it. Like I said earlier, for every study that shows ill effects, I can find one that shows benefits. Plus, it helps me lose weight. :) If I have a hankering for a dessert, coffee does it for me.

[Guest bizabra]

All things in moderation. Excessive drinking is not good. For many obvious reasons. But a glass or 2 of wine or spirits can relax a body and help make a more convivial evening with friends over dinner. A cold brew or 2 on a hot day can't be beat! A few puffs on a joint prior to seeing a movie or going to a concert can enhance the experience. A cup of coffee in the morning can be just the thing to jump start your day. Nicotine can help keep you alert while driving.

Notice I said "one or two", a "few puffs", "a cup". Extreme use of these substances can lead to all sorts of out of control experiences, which should teach one to NOT be extreme with them. If you can't "not be extreme", then you would probably better off not touching any of it.

Most people CAN use these substances without going to extremes. These things CAN enhance our lives, but not always and those who have problems can just say NO. But to condemn them wholesale for ALL is Naziism and takes away the free agency we all have.

Sometimes, one has to go over the line to know where the line is. And then have the wisdom to not do it again and again.

[prisonchaplain]

I quite drinking caffeinated coffee for a year once. A doctor thought it might have been effecting my digestion. Then another doctor had the sense to ask me, "Well, did abstaining change anything?" I realized it had not, and went back to it.

If your faith instructs you to abstain, then do so. There may be side health benefits, but, from my outside view, the prohibitions against tea and coffee for LDS are much like many of the kosher laws for Jews--you abstain primarily, "Because God said so."

BTW (Please note that my tongue is firmly planted in my cheek on this line) There's no question but that coffee is addictive--but so is oxygen! :-)

[Guest Monica]

Drinking alcohol is permitted as long as its done in moderation and not debachery.

Deu 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

1Ti 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

The word WINE in the bible, means just that WINE, not some grape juice. Check the concordance.

[Josie]

I respect the word of wisdom and what God has directed us to do through his modern day prophets. I have seen what alcohol does and how it not only effects the life of the one using it, but the lives of everyone they love or touch through their life. The same is true with illegal drugs. I have no desire to have that in my or around me. I have seen it in my family and otherwise and it has no place in my life. Smoking is a filthy and unhealthy habit and it too has now been proven to endanger those around the smoker. I am very willing to obey our prophets and Lord.

[Outshined]

Drinking alcohol is permitted as long as its done in moderation and not debachery.

Deu 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

1Ti 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

The word WINE in the bible, means just that WINE, not some grape juice. Check the concordance.

Unfortunately, it is not permittted by the Word of Wisdom. As PC pointed out, different faiths have different standards; this is one of ours.

[prisonchaplain]

Drinking alcohol is permitted as long as its done in moderation and not debachery.

The word WINE in the bible, means just that WINE, not some grape juice. Check the concordance.

Without a declarative statement, like the Word of Wisdom, it is more difficult to insist upon total abstention from alcohol. Yet, some movements--my own included--do so. The most common approach is to say:

1. It may not be permitted, but is it wise?

2. Examples of alcohol use in the Bible are overwhelmingly negative.

3. The rate of abuse is fairly high--why risk it?

4. Alcohol is certainly not needed--so why imbibe?

Etc. Here's a position paper recommended abstinence. http://ag.org/top/Beliefs/Position_Papers/..._abstinence.cfm

[shanstress70]

4. Alcohol is certainly not needed--so why imbibe?

Neither is filet mignon, traveling to exotic places, a trip to a dayspa, a cell phone, etc. It's not needed, but can bring enjoyment to our lives if used in a moderate, social setting.

[prisonchaplain]

<div class='quotemain'>

4. Alcohol is certainly not needed--so why imbibe?

Neither is filet mignon, traveling to exotic places, a trip to a dayspa, a cell phone, etc. It's not needed, but can bring enjoyment to our lives if used in a moderate, social setting.

The approach I listed is meant for a group of church people who belong to a tea-totalling church. In other words, folks who are inclined to abstain, but want more than, "Because you're supposed to."

As a chaplain, I take a different approach. I encourage the people to be faithful to their own church traditions, and to search the Bible for themselves. I then tell the story of an exchange student from France (to my seminary). In France, the ministers have wine at their meetings. They find the American approach prudish. When he came to our school he had to promise to abstain while he was here. After a year in America, he said that, should he minister in the USA, he would indeed abstain--because our drinking culture is so bad, and alcoholism seems to be a much greater problem.

On a personal level, I would not condemn Christians who drink moderately, given that their church allows it.

[shanstress70]

The approach I listed is meant for a group of church people who belong to a tea-totalling church. In other words, folks who are inclined to abstain, but want more than, "Because you're supposed to."

Oh sorry, PC. Conversely, I was speaking of those who were not restricted to not drink at all by their religion. As I stated before, I completely respect those who choose not to for that reason... or for any reason for that matter.

[Maureen]

Drinking alcohol is permitted as long as its done in moderation and not debachery.

This is interesting that you would say this Monica. You also made a post much earlier talking about how the star of Bethlehem was really something that Satan was involved in. Both these ideas regarding alcohol and the star of Bethlehem sounds something a JW would say, since it's what they believe. I'm curious, are you JW or were you at one time, and have chosen to still keep some of their beliefs as your own?

M.

[begood2]

My favorite cold drink is lemonade...the real stuff with at least 15% real lemon juice. Cherry limeade isn't bad either.I also enjoy fresh squeezed orange juice, apple juice and grape juice. For me milk does the body good too!

I'm nearly always in a very good happy mood.....just a natural high on life...so I have no desire to be drugged even in a mild way with alcohol, coffee or tea.... and certainly not by the use of any illegal drugs.

Smoking is just plain nasty!

[shanstress70]

I'm nearly always in a very good happy mood.....just a natural high on life...so I have no desire to be drugged even in a mild way with alcohol, coffee or tea.... and certainly not by the use of any illegal drugs.

Drugged by tea? Do you imbibe in chocolate at all? A bar of dark chocolate has just about as much caffeine as a cup of tea or a Coke.

[Guest MrsS]

<div class='quotemain'>

I'm nearly always in a very good happy mood.....just a natural high on life...so I have no desire to be drugged even in a mild way with alcohol, coffee or tea.... and certainly not by the use of any illegal drugs.

Drugged by tea? Do you imbibe in chocolate at all? A bar of dark chocolate has just about as much caffeine as a cup of tea or a Coke.

Shantress you just don't get it do you? It isn't just about the caffeine that is in coffee and tea. The Word of Wisdom does NOT state caffeine. It states hot drinks. Later that was defined by the 1st Presidency to mean coffee and tea. Not once did the 1st Presidency state caffeine.

Again I will state: Who is mortal man to question or usurp God in any of His commandments? And yes Shantress, to the LDS the Word of Wisdom is a commandment. To the LDS it is to be obeyed the same as the 10 commandments.

[shanstress70]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

I'm nearly always in a very good happy mood.....just a natural high on life...so I have no desire to be drugged even in a mild way with alcohol, coffee or tea.... and certainly not by the use of any illegal drugs.

Drugged by tea? Do you imbibe in chocolate at all? A bar of dark chocolate has just about as much caffeine as a cup of tea or a Coke.

Shantress you just don't get it do you? It isn't just about the caffeine that is in coffee and tea. The Word of Wisdom does NOT state caffeine. It states hot drinks. Later that was defined by the 1st Presidency to mean coffee and tea. Not once did the 1st Presidency state caffeine.

Again I will state: Who is mortal man to question or usurp God in any of His commandments? And yes Shantress, to the LDS the Word of Wisdom is a commandment. To the LDS it is to be obeyed the same as the 10 commandments.

Mrs S, I'm in no way talking about the WoW in this post. I was simply saying that I wouldn't really say that those who are drinking tea are 'drugged'. I have stated over and over again that I respect anyone's decision to not drink coffee, tea, or whatever for any reason. I'm simply defending my own decision to enjoy drinks that I'm not forbidden to drink. I do think Begood was talking about caffeine, in that he/she was talking about being 'drugged', and caffeine is the drug in those drinks. And Begood was the one I was addressing in this post.

So yes, I do 'get it'... thanks.

[prisonchaplain]

<div class='quotemain'>

I'm nearly always in a very good happy mood.....just a natural high on life...so I have no desire to be drugged even in a mild way with alcohol, coffee or tea.... and certainly not by the use of any illegal drugs.

Drugged by tea? Do you imbibe in chocolate at all? A bar of dark chocolate has just about as much caffeine as a cup of tea or a Coke.

What's the LDS take on Energy drinks (Red Bull, Rockstar, Monster, etc.)? I thought I'd read that caffeine was not the issue, nor is it banned.

[Outshined]

What's the LDS take on Energy drinks (Red Bull, Rockstar, Monster, etc.)?

I've seen no official word, but I personally don't drink them; seems like a lot of money for a bit of sugar and caffeine. I might try one if I had to be up all night.

I thought I'd read that caffeine was not the issue, nor is it banned.

You are correct; it is not banned, and many members drink Coke, Mountain Dew, etc.

[Rosewood]

President Hinckley on Larry King told the world we avoid caffeine. I'm not sure what that meant exactly, but we stopped drinking caffeinated sodas at that time, although I still take Excedrin when I get a migraine and enjoy chocolate at every opportunity!

I think one of the main reasons for not drinking coffee or tea is to separate us from the world. It sure makes us stand out don’t you think?

[Guest funkyfool]

i drink and it's not permissable by the church. lol or by the law for that matter seeing as how im underage. But if it were permissable...i wouldnt get the thrill out of feeling like such a rebel doing it. :)

[Outshined]

That's something to brag about...

[Guest MrsS]

That's something to brag about...

She is a rebellious teenager - what do you expect!

[Outshined]

She isn't the only one it affects, you know. It's illegal behavior, and the person who provides her with alcohol can go to jail as well.

I have a friend who will never walk normally again because of a "rebellious teenager" who blew a red light and ran over him on a crosswalk. She was 17 and drunk, just having fun with her friends.

A girl was killed here this past summer by an 18-year-old who was drinking with his buddies. He rear-ended her car at an intersection and she burned to death in the car. She was voted homecoming queen the night before.

It may seem harsh, but don't ask me to overlook or condone such idiotic behavior as harmless "teenage rebellion". That's actually surprising coming from you.