How Serious is this?...

[DevtheWind]

I can remember self-harming ever since I was young, whether it be pulling out my hair, punching or slamming my head or body into harder objects, or pinching myself really, really hard until I started crying. Though it has just evolved into cutting, which I don't make deep, lasting cuts, only shallow cuts on my arm, is this a really serious sin, like, will I be kept from reaching the Celestial Kingdom if I continue? Or is it just minor, and I won't really be punished by doing this?

[mnn727]

You really need to talk with a professional about this behavior (ie psychologist, etc) or at least a school counselor (if you're still in school)

Your body is a Temple, would you take a hammer and chisel to a Temple wall?

Edited October 31, 2012 by mnn727

[skippy740]

Regardless of whether if "it's a sin" or not, I think that someone who is into self-harm has a mental imbalance and needs help from a psychologist/psychiatrist.

I would get help and I wouldn't worry about whether it's a sin or not at this stage.

The greater sin would be in not getting any help.

[mnn727]

duplicate post

[bythelake]

Dev,

Have you experienced any type of abuse, such as emotional abuse? Or is there a lot of contention or conflict in your family?

[DevtheWind]

Dev,

Have you experienced any type of abuse, such as emotional abuse? Or is there a lot of contention or conflict in your family?

Yes, I was physically and emotionally abused by my biological father as a child (3-5 years old). And my aunt molested me, though that is a completely different story.

Edited October 31, 2012 by DevtheWind

[Heber13]

It is not a matter of it being on a list of things you can or cannot do to pass the sentinels letting people into the Celestial Kingdom. It is a matter of positive mental health.

Some people in this world have need of medication or professional help to deal with their mental state, whether that is caused by abusive experiences as children or chemical imbalances in the brain not the fault of the person born into those situations.

Most professionals warn that such behaviors do not go away by themselves. They even sometimes escalate to more intense behaviors that impact lasting relationships with others or happiness for the individual.

It can be serious, and should be discussed with a professional, not because God may not let you in the CK, but because you need to find safety and peace in this existence. I think God judges us on how we cope and deal with trials given to us. Self-harm is not in line with Gospel Principles of becoming "like" Christ.

I suggest you turn to professional help to assess your situation.

[Guest]

Honey, you have been through so much. Have you ever been in therapy? Whether your mother thinks you need it or not, you do. I don't know if you're still in school but if you are, maybe you should start by talking to a school counselor. Talk to your bishop. Talk to someone. I know it's hard at first, but you can't overcome this stuff on your own.

[DevtheWind]

Honey, you have been through so much. Have you ever been in therapy? Whether your mother thinks you need it or not, you do. I don't know if you're still in school but if you are, maybe you should start by talking to a school counselor. Talk to your bishop. Talk to someone. I know it's hard at first, but you can't overcome this stuff on your own.

I have been to therapy before, when I was much younger I went for anger management problems, but the therapy only pushed the anger deeper inside, It didn't get rid of it. I didn't even complete the therapy either, we had to move, and that was the end of it. That's why I don't trust professionals very much, they didn't help me at all. And I don't want to burden my Bishop with this stuff either.

[Guest]

It's not a burden for your bishop. Part of the mantle of his calling is the strength and wisdom to help people through this. Also, just because one therapist didn't help doesn't mean none will. It sounds like you didn't have a very good one. Sincerely, you have got to get professional help. ASAP.

[skippy740]

According to your profile, you're 15 years old.

You're going to take your 10-year-old self's word on whether something would work or not??

There's a big difference between being 10, 15, 20 and 35. Time, maturity and perspective all change with age.

Please be open to a new experience for therapy.

BTW, that's part of what Bishop's are for.

[Guest SquidMom]

Your body is a Temple, would you take a hammer and chisel to a Temple wall?

I think this is a great to response to that aspect of you question. Yes, self mutilation is a sin. However I also agree that this should not be your major focus at this time.

You mentioned that the sexual abuse is not the subject here. I thank you for sharing something so difficult and understand your reluctance to talk about it in detail. You certainly don't have to if you don't feel up to it.

However, I think that you need to, (in your self-conversations, at least), acknowledge and explore the place that this does have in your current dillema. Just one instance of sexual abuse, no matter how 'minor' it may seem, can have a very profound effect on the rest of your entire life. Even in a case where it happens very young and the victim may not even remember it. More so when perpetrated by someone you love and trust, such as a family member.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

DevtheWind,

I am so sorry that you have experienced the kind of pain that drives a person to self-harm. I understand that pain because I have felt it and considered self-harm too. I'm a bit older than you (I'm 46), but the temptation to do it was so strong!

No, I absolutely do not think it is a sin. Self-harm is a very common response to abuse, particularly sexual abuse.

Please talk to someone that you trust about this, if not your parents, then a church leader, a school counselor etc. I am learning that Denial is off our minds first response to a great shock, so if the person you tell has this response, don't blame yourself. Tell someone else. Keep talking until you find the person that will help you get some therapy.

Self-harm is very addicitive. You need help to stop, and you need help to cope with the pain that is driving you to do this. I go to therapy twice a week, and I have for awhile now. Although I still have a long way to go, therapy has helped alot. As my therapist says, "Pain needs a witness." YOUR pain needs a witness.

You are not alone. There are far too many of us that feel this pain, but there is hope. Marilyn Van Derbur, a survivor of childhood sexual abuse and author of the book Miss America By Day...says it gets better. You can get to a place where it doesn't hurt anymore but you have to do the hard work of therapy. (I have to quote Marilyn on this, because I am not there yet myself, but I hold on to the hope her words offer.)

I've written a couple posts on my blog about my experience with self-harm. The second one shares some tips you might find helpful, but please pursue therapy.

Leslie's Illusions: Seeing Red

Leslie's Illusions: Seeing Red Part II

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Your body is a Temple, would you take a hammer and chisel to a Temple wall?

I'm not the OP, but as someone who has struggled with the temptation to self-harm, I can tell you that people do it as an attempt to release a very deep pain. You cannot imagine it unless you have experienced it.

Some people might suppose it is a sign of weakness, but let me give you something else to consider...I experienced my husband being laid off of work 3 times in almost as many years, bankruptcy, foreclosure, life-threatening health issues, the death of a niece and nephew in their teens, a miscarraige at 12 weeks (that is a little body you can hold in your palm)....all these things were hard...very, very hard. But my testimony of Heavenly Father and Christ helped me to get through those things.

THEN repressed memories of my childhood sexual abuse began so surface...that was when I started considering self-harm. I was actually in Sacrament meeting the first time the thought came to me that what I needed...needed...to do was take a razor to my elbow and slash as hard and deep as I could all the way to my wrist. I felt I needed to do this for two reasons actually...first to release the pain. It felt that with the blood some pain would be released. But also I felt at the core that I needed to be punished.

Later, I became suicidal.

I am not weak. The pain from childhood sexual abuse is really like nothing I have experienced before. A lot of therapy, visits with the Bishop, and priesthood blessings are keeping me going.

You know it is ironic to me that people (not just you) will say, "how could you think of harming your temple", and yet at the same time be so quick to tell us to forgive the person who violated our temple as if we are not allowed to be angry that our temple was violated.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I have been to therapy before, when I was much younger I went for anger management problems, but the therapy only pushed the anger deeper inside, It didn't get rid of it. I didn't even complete the therapy either, we had to move, and that was the end of it. That's why I don't trust professionals very much, they didn't help me at all. And I don't want to burden my Bishop with this stuff either.

Of course you are angry! You have a right to be. Let me say that again...

You have a right to be angry!

When the money changers violated the temple, the Savior was angry. He overturned tables. Your body/temple was violated...of course you are angry.

About therapy...not all counselors are the same. And therapy takes time...please give it another chance. I can tell you from my experience that if you have a therapist that knows what they are doing, and you develop a relationship with him/her....it DOES help.

Yes, self mutilation is a sin. .

I would like to share why I wish you would not say that.

First of all, survivors suffer from tremendous shame. Shame is one of the most difficult things to overcome, and although I know you meant well, your statement adds to the shame and thus hurts, not heals.

Second, as a survivor I struggle to understand how a "loving" Father in Heaven, could see the abuse and not rescue me. I'm still working on that. So now some would have me believe that God not only did not stop the abuse, but is going to be upset/disapointed whatever because I "sin" in the way I that I attempt to deal with the tremendous pain???? I cannot accept that. I think that Father is sad when we self-harm. I think He want us to come to Him, to come to the Savior and allow them to heal us (which is hard because of the shame)...but I don't believe He will ask us to repent of the "sin" of coping the best way that we can.

[Heber13]

You should also realize, coming from experience, therapists vary, and although it takes patience, you should look for a good one, and try a couple. Rarely do people find one therapist, and that's all they need. It can be a very different experience when you find a good one, one that you really connect with, and that really helps you release your problems, not bury them further.

Some therapists aren't that great. You should look for one you like. At your age, that is hard to do on your own. I think your bishop may be able to help you.

You asked if it was serious. The answer is yes. When you self-harm, your brain releases chemicals that make you actually feel better about it...it is a way of coping. But it becomes an addiction, like drugs. The addiction doesn't lessen or stay the same...it becomes tolerant to the current levels and wants more for the same feeling.

I just want you to know you are loved by Heavenly Father for who you are. But it saddens me to see youth be so hard on themselves. You may want to reread Moses chapter 1, and see how Moses knows he is a Son of God, not a son of man as Satan wants him to think. There is something special about our potential as God's children. You are loved for who you are. :)

[Heber13]

LP, thank you for sharing your experience, because I think you are right on the money!

I'm not the OP, but as someone who has struggled with the temptation to self-harm, I can tell you that people do it as an attempt to release a very deep pain. You cannot imagine it unless you have experienced it.

I really really think it is misunderstood by people who haven't experienced it. Others may try to make sense of it by saying the person is weak or is sinning in other areas of life or something like that...but when my daughter attempted suicide and I had to listen in therapy sessions of her deep pain, and her thoughts on how to release the pain in ways like cutting or burning, it was so hard to hear her talk about it. Though it makes little logical sense to me, it is real to her.

She is in therapy now and on the proper medications she is making great strides.

But it is not helpful to tell the person they just need to try harder or pray harder and God will comfort you. It often takes medication and therapy. We just don't understand the brain and how it works sometimes, and it can't get conflated with typical spiritual issues.

Bishops are being counseled more and more to refer members to professional help, because their spiritual discernment isn't the kind of help some individuals need in their circumstances.

I believe sin is when the person is willfully acting against laws of God. I don't know how willful some people are when their brain is unbalanced, so I try to not lump everything into bad situations come from sin. It is too broad of a brush.

[mnn727]

You know it is ironic to me that people (not just you) will say, "how could you think of harming your temple", and yet at the same time be so quick to tell us to forgive the person who violated our temple as if we are not allowed to be angry that our temple was violated.

I think you need to examine what I actually posted as your response was off base for what I posted.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I think you need to examine what I actually posted as your response was off base for what I posted.

I apologize for the confusion, I used your comment as a jumping off point, I realize you did not say anythinng about forgiveness. I just making a related point, I didn't mean to "lasso" you into it. :)

[Guest SquidMom]

So now some would have me believe that God ..... is going to be upset/disapointed whatever because I "sin" in the way I that I attempt to deal with the tremendous pain???? QUOTE]

i apologize if my comment seemed to be so cold. I think that the Lord is not upset, only sad, when we harm ourselves. This because he feels the pain with us, and for us. There is nothing shameful in dealing with pain in a way you feel you must. I have mentioned before that I am bi-polar and suffer from severe depression. I have self- mutilated since I was 15. I have not had to endure the horrible experiences that others here have alluded to, so as to that aspect, I can only offer prayers of support. I know people who have suffered abuse, and have struggled with the resulting feelings shame and guilt. I wish it was as easy as saying 'the shame is not yours, but theirs.' Unfortunately, that just doesn't do it.

That notwithstanding, I feel I must say that to say that self mutilation is not a sin because it is a coping mechanism, (again, I do it too!) is like saying that alcoholism or drug abuse is not a sin, simply because the person is only trying to cope. I feel it can act also as a sign for others that you are in pain, and in need of comfort and support. I encourage those suffering with this to not feel shame, because there should be none.

I only mentioned it at all because the question was asked if anyone thought it was a sin or not. Only trying to be honest. No one has to agree with me.

Edited October 31, 2012 by SquidMom

[Guest SquidMom]

[/

QUOTE][=Heber13;708946]!

I believe sin is when the person is willfully acting against laws of God. I don't know how willful some people are when their brain is unbalanced, so I try to not lump everything into bad situations come from sin. It is too broad of a brush.

True. Do you mean, like, a kind of temporary insanity? Just looking for clarification.

Edited October 31, 2012 by SquidMom

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Squidmom, Thanks for explaining so patiently. I am aware that I am a bit touchy about these topics, I am really trying not to be. I'm grateful you were patient with me. I'm sorry I missed your posts else where explaining your situation.

I think the way Heber explained it is closer to what I was trying to say, if that helps.

Now, I am just musing here, but....I think that self-harm, while it is addictive, is different than alcohol or smoking because if you never take that first drink or smoke a cigarette you will never have the craving for them. Self-harm on the other hand...oh the cravings I have had and I have never done it. That is so unfair. I'm doing a lot better now...I mean I don't struggle with the cravings like I once did, but I still find if I think about it too long, like for example when I pondered it to write my blog posts, the craving returns. It is crazy. I don't understand how I could want it so bad. The reason I don't do it is because I am afraid that if I started, I would never stop.

Thanks for discussing this with me. I feel passionately that we can help more people by talking openly about these issues than keeping secrets, which is why I talk about it even though I know I risk being over-sensitive.

[Guest SquidMom]

I have found poetry to be a good outlet. Sometimes just writing down what you want to do, expressing your darkest fear and feelings in a literary and creative way can 1- release some of the pain in a way that is non-harmful and 2- distract you. By taking the time to think of words that rhyme and make sense in a story like format involves a lot of concentration! Usually, by the time I'm done, I can read over it a few times and think 'Wow, that's messed up. Do I really feel that way?' And no one ses it but me, so I don't have to feel ashamed of my dark feelings and thoughts.

[BadWolf]

I can remember self-harming ever since I was young, whether it be pulling out my hair, punching or slamming my head or body into harder objects, or pinching myself really, really hard until I started crying. Though it has just evolved into cutting, which I don't make deep, lasting cuts, only shallow cuts on my arm, is this a really serious sin, like, will I be kept from reaching the Celestial Kingdom if I continue? Or is it just minor, and I won't really be punished by doing this?

Cutting is an addiction.

There's a flood of endorphins and NT's released by cutting (and other forms of self harm) that self medicates someone with serious mental/emotional pain.

A talented professional (usually a psychiatrist / counselor team) can get you to the point where you feel like that (relief) ALL the time. Which is "normal". Usually via meds + therapy. Then taper off the meds and just therapy. Then nada. Meds are NOT always required, sometimes a self harm taper works, but its a dicey thing. It's far more dangerous than alcohol/opioid addiction for example.

Unlike many addictions cutting isn't typically something you want to just 12step. The suicide rate is too high.

Cutting CAN just be sensory seeking (common amongst SPD types), but this doesn't sound like you. Suicide would be a very real concern, so I would absolutely make sure that you're under care of some competent & talented people before you try and break the addiction.

A great counselor will be able to help you substitute other sensory input to help, as well, which can be life long 'warm fuzzies' / 'thrilling' / relief ... Which doesn't trip into addiction-land. These will be different for different people... But serve to clarify your mind when things start getting all 'noisy'. Being ADHD (aka ill have sensory stuff forever... Which I'm fine with because they're healthy/balanced) I have tons of my own tricks... And they're a lifelong tool I use to clarify when I'm distracted. People in difficult transitions might not need sensory tools lifelong, but they are inordinately useful.

[Heber13]

True. Do you mean, like, a kind of temporary insanity? Just looking for clarification.

I'm not sure how temporary insanity really works for sin. I guess that is why Jesus is the Judge. I think as a society people are accountable for their actions and we need to protect other members of society based on actions proven, but I think God knows how to handle what is biologically going on inside a person and so the judging is left to him regarding sin and punishment from that regard.