Emotional abuse in temple marriage

[missionary0204]

The greatest opportunities to change in my life are when I get a good "shaking." Let me give an example. When I was a teen, I cursed a few times in front a woman that didn't like it. She turned around to me after a minute or two and asked me something along the lines of, "why would you speak such filth in front of me?" I was blown away. I did not realize how my actions/words effected her. From that time forward, I was cautious about the words I would use around others and I am still grateful to this day for experiences that open my eyes and allow me to change.

If your husband never really knows how you feel, then do not expect any change. I like the idea of asking him to go to a councelor again. If he will not, maybe leave for a few days. That would sure begin to make me think about what I'm missing. That may not be the right scenario, but he may need a good shaking if there really is a problem and you are having a hard time making that known.

[blueroses]

Thank you so much for responding so quickly. I will definitely try asking him to come with me to counseling again. It's so important to exhaust all the options and try as hard as you can to make things work.

I'm sure my own sensitivity contributes to the problem, possibly aggravates him more. That's definitely something I can work on with my counselor. My only worry with asking him to go to counseling is the anger issue. Every single time that I've ever tried to intervene and help him, he has always gotten angry at me, stomped off, yelled, even thrown things. And yes, each time I've intervened, I've done so very quietly and peacefully (because that's just the way I roll). How do you help someone who is always angry at you? Or who will twist your careful attempts to help with rage?

Thanks again for your comments--they are all so helpful!

[Guest]

Thank you so much for responding so quickly. I will definitely try asking him to come with me to counseling again. It's so important to exhaust all the options and try as hard as you can to make things work.

I'm sure my own sensitivity contributes to the problem, possibly aggravates him more. That's definitely something I can work on with my counselor. My only worry with asking him to go to counseling is the anger issue. Every single time that I've ever tried to intervene and help him, he has always gotten angry at me, stomped off, yelled, even thrown things. And yes, each time I've intervened, I've done so very quietly and peacefully (because that's just the way I roll). How do you help someone who is always angry at you? Or who will twist your careful attempts to help with rage?

Thanks again for your comments--they are all so helpful!

You need to find out why that's the response he gives. Then you need to help him learn a better response.

And this is not going to happen if he sees you as the enemy or if you see him as the enemy. It needs to come to a point where he says - I have a problem, I need help to overcome it. Just like you need to come to a point where you can say - here's my contribution to this problem - I need help to figure out how to help both of us overcome this problem.

And the steps that lead to that point is Love (Charity/Service), Respect, Patience, Forgiveness, to finally get to TRUST. Because, he will need to trust you that you are working towards HIS best interest. And you will have to be able to trust him that he is working towards YOUR best interest. That's Love. That's Charity. Get to that point and the rest can be overcome.

Edited December 21, 2012 by anatess

[Suzie]

I'm sure my own sensitivity contributes to the problem, possibly aggravates him more.

Blueroses, there are millions of married women around the world who are very sensitive and their husbands do not react in the way your husband unfortunately does, so no I do not think your own sensitivity "aggravates" him more. I think he needs help and yes, as his wife you should try your very best to help him ...yet be smart enough to recognize possible red flags and literally run in case this whole scenario turns violent.

[Guest kshRox]

Thanks for your responses.

I have counseled with my bishop, but there wasn't a black-and-white response, it was more up to my own judgment, which is why I posted. It's very hard for me, even with fasting/praying/going to counseling to know what to do. It's been a very difficult situation in general. One in which I've run up against many walls, with little to no support at all.

As far as the second response is concerned, I don't know how to respond to that. Maybe I'm too dense to understand what you mean. Is assuming that many are in similar situations a bad thing? Was I in the wrong? Please help me understand.

I don't know. Maybe I shouldn't have posted at all . . .

Are you looking for someone else to be responsible for your decision?

This is your decision and you have made some very serious accusations.

Based on what you said here, you very likely can get a restraining order on him.

I would ask you to leave him rather than destroy his reputation.

He has never been physical with you but you fear he may be physical?

So your are saying he has never done something but for some reason you fear he might?

I'm a divorced man and I truly believe my ex felt like she needed to justify leaving me by destroying my reputation.

If you want out - then get out.

Quit trying to justify it by making accusations about your husband to get someone else to tell you to leave. You obviously are unhappy and believe it is his fault.

If your accusations are true then you should leave.

[blueroses]

Here are a few random thoughts that I hope make sense:

A) I think some people who feel broken inside need validation from unbiased third parties because, in the middle of the crisis they are in, their own sense of self worth and judgement can often be skewed. Of course we should take complete ownership over our own decisions, but what if we can't see the obvious answer because of the situation we are in? What if we feel too shut down? What if we don't even know where to begin? Then, I think, an outside opinion can be a valuable thing.

B) Some people, too, need to just get their story out. It doesn't mean they want to shame their spouse, or destroy a reputation--they just need to reach out. I'm not in a physically abusive situation, but I've known many who are. Most of them think they are making too big of a deal out of their situation. Most of them believe they deserve what they get. Most blame themselves. It takes an outsider to come in and tell them that they are in a dangerous situation, before they believe it. I think, in some cases, the same thing can be said for emotional abuse as well. And in some cases, a person needs to be told that they are dealing with normal stuff--stuff that can be fixed.

C) I don't want to paint the wrong picture about my situation. Things are not ALL bad. We have peaceful moments. Most of the time, we get along fairly civilly. It's just in those moments when his rage takes over that I get scared, and blamed, and confused, and hurt. I'm guessing that most marriages go through ups and downs, times when one spouse gets angry and says and does things they regret. I'm also guessing that many married couples experience rifts in communication. I realize that these are common things. But I also see a few red flags in my own situation that have me worried, and I'm genuinely curious if others see them too, or if I'm making a big deal out of nothing (which is, admittedly, a phrase I hear a lot in my household).

Hope that made even the tiniest bit of sense.

[Guest kshRox]

Here are a few random thoughts that I hope make sense:

A) I think some people who feel broken inside need validation from unbiased third parties because, in the middle of the crisis they are in, their own sense of self worth and judgement can often be skewed. Of course we should take complete ownership over our own decisions, but what if we can't see the obvious answer because of the situation we are in? What if we feel too shut down? What if we don't even know where to begin? Then, I think, an outside opinion can be a valuable thing.

B) Some people, too, need to just get their story out. It doesn't mean they want to shame their spouse, or destroy a reputation--they just need to reach out. I'm not in a physically abusive situation, but I've known many who are. Most of them think they are making too big of a deal out of their situation. Most of them believe they deserve what they get. Most blame themselves. It takes an outsider to come in and tell them that they are in a dangerous situation, before they believe it. I think, in some cases, the same thing can be said for emotional abuse as well. And in some cases, a person needs to be told that they are dealing with normal stuff--stuff that can be fixed.

C) I don't want to paint the wrong picture about my situation. Things are not ALL bad. We have peaceful moments. Most of the time, we get along fairly civilly. It's just in those moments when his rage takes over that I get scared, and blamed, and confused, and hurt. I'm guessing that most marriages go through ups and downs, times when one spouse gets angry and says and does things they regret. I'm also guessing that many married couples experience rifts in communication. I realize that these are common things. But I also see a few red flags in my own situation that have me worried, and I'm genuinely curious if others see them too, or if I'm making a big deal out of nothing (which is, admittedly, a phrase I hear a lot in my household).

Hope that made even the tiniest bit of sense.

Have you thought about removing yourself from the situation?

Do you have family you can go to?

Perhaps a trial separation?

Place some distance and try to gain some objectivity?

If you feel 'unsafe' having this discussion or taking this action there are support groups out there that can offer advice and assistance.

[Backroads]

Here are a few random thoughts that I hope make sense:

A) I think some people who feel broken inside need validation from unbiased third parties because, in the middle of the crisis they are in, their own sense of self worth and judgement can often be skewed. Of course we should take complete ownership over our own decisions, but what if we can't see the obvious answer because of the situation we are in? What if we feel too shut down? What if we don't even know where to begin? Then, I think, an outside opinion can be a valuable thing.

B) Some people, too, need to just get their story out. It doesn't mean they want to shame their spouse, or destroy a reputation--they just need to reach out. I'm not in a physically abusive situation, but I've known many who are. Most of them think they are making too big of a deal out of their situation. Most of them believe they deserve what they get. Most blame themselves. It takes an outsider to come in and tell them that they are in a dangerous situation, before they believe it. I think, in some cases, the same thing can be said for emotional abuse as well. And in some cases, a person needs to be told that they are dealing with normal stuff--stuff that can be fixed.

C) I don't want to paint the wrong picture about my situation. Things are not ALL bad. We have peaceful moments. Most of the time, we get along fairly civilly. It's just in those moments when his rage takes over that I get scared, and blamed, and confused, and hurt. I'm guessing that most marriages go through ups and downs, times when one spouse gets angry and says and does things they regret. I'm also guessing that many married couples experience rifts in communication. I realize that these are common things. But I also see a few red flags in my own situation that have me worried, and I'm genuinely curious if others see them too, or if I'm making a big deal out of nothing (which is, admittedly, a phrase I hear a lot in my household).

Hope that made even the tiniest bit of sense.

These thoughts do make a lot of sense.

But please, do not consider them reasons to stick with the status quo.

[Dove]

Hello, Blueroses;

My impression of all that you have written is that you are a very insightful person as to your situation.

Yes, you are in a verryy bad situation. Yes, your self esteem is being very degraded by him, per what you have said. This is a classic sign/result of abuse. No, you are not making a big deal out of your situation. You don't deserve this and you are not at fault!

No, this is not normal stuff. And, No, it can't be fixed when you're husband refuses to see what he is doing to you.

Just because all is quiet and peaceful at times in your marriage, doesn't mean that it's okay or livable or for your best eternal welfare.

I see the big red flags waving. You are not making a big deal out of nothing.

Now, I'm not a professional. But, I've lived around abusive, manipulative and destructive people all my life. One trademark I've seen in a few of these people is an absolute lack of accountability or belief that they are their own worst problem. It's always someone/something else that's at fault. Someone else is to blame/responsible for their sense of happiness, well being and being kind to the object of their displays of anger/manipulation.

It saddens me to know you have to walk on eggshells out of fear that your husband is going to lose it and do something physically harmful to you. Realize, he is not going to change.

A question that might be worth asking yourself is; How long do you want to spend your life trying to live in this kind of situation? Life is so precious and short. Is this really how you want to live yours?

Lastly, please get professional help in dealing with this or leaving. Especially if you decide to leave. The major cause of women being murdered is by a jealous/manipulative/abusive boyfriend/husband/significant other murdering them for trying to leave. Getting help is definitely worthwhile if you value the quality of life you have.

Please take care.

Dove

[Guest kshRox]

Hello, Blueroses;

My impression of all that you have written is that you are a very insightful person as to your situation.

Yes, you are in a verryy bad situation. Yes, your self esteem is being very degraded by him, per what you have said. This is a classic sign/result of abuse. No, you are not making a big deal out of your situation. You don't deserve this and you are not at fault!

No, this is not normal stuff. And, No, it can't be fixed when you're husband refuses to see what he is doing to you.

Just because all is quiet and peaceful at times in your marriage, doesn't mean that it's okay or livable or for your best eternal welfare.

I see the big red flags waving. You are not making a big deal out of nothing.

Now, I'm not a professional. But, I've lived around abusive, manipulative and destructive people all my life. One trademark I've seen in a few of these people is an absolute lack of accountability or belief that they are their own worst problem. It's always someone/something else that's at fault. Someone else is to blame/responsible for their sense of happiness, well being and being kind to the object of their displays of anger/manipulation.

It saddens me to know you have to walk on eggshells out of fear that your husband is going to lose it and do something physically harmful to you. Realize, he is not going to change.

A question that might be worth asking yourself is; How long do you want to spend your life trying to live in this kind of situation? Life is so precious and short. Is this really how you want to live yours?

Lastly, please get professional help in dealing with this or leaving. Especially if you decide to leave. The major cause of women being murdered is by a jealous/manipulative/abusive boyfriend/husband/significant other murdering them for trying to leave. Getting help is definitely worthwhile if you value the quality of life you have.

Please take care.

Dove

Dove you can't know what is going on based upon one side of the story.

Blue Roses on one hand makes some pretty harsh accusations concerning her husband.

On the other she attempts to mitigate the charges she levels. (and you say she has clarity concerning her situation?)

She needs to quit making allegations until she is clear and sure of her charges.

Men deserve respect, honesty and protection under the law as well as women.

If she is serious then she needs to get out of there, at least long enough to gain some objectivity and valid insight on her situation.

I think women are often dissatisfied with their lives and project this dissatisfaction upon their husbands and begin their own campaigns of emotional abuse - yes, I believe women often emotionally abuse men.

I don't know this is part of BR's situation but I don't know that it is not. You on the other hand are ready to condemn her husband based upon comments made on a forum.

[Dove]

Dove you can't know what is going on based upon one side of the story.

Blue Roses on one hand makes some pretty harsh accusations concerning her husband.

On the other she attempts to mitigate the charges she levels. (and you say she has clarity concerning her situation?)

She needs to quit making allegations until she is clear and sure of her charges.

Men deserve respect, honesty and protection under the law as well as women.

If she is serious then she needs to get out of there, at least long enough to gain some objectivity and valid insight on her situation.

I think women are often dissatisfied with their lives and project this dissatisfaction upon their husbands and begin their own campaigns of emotional abuse - yes, I believe women often emotionally abuse men.

I don't know this is part of BR's situation but I don't know that it is not. You on the other hand are ready to condemn her husband based upon comments made on a forum.

Thank you for the input.

I haven't spoken in superlatives and did acknowledge that I am not a professional. I was hoping it would be understood that what I was stating was my opinion. While it is a lay person's opinion, it is one I stand by.

Given the information BR has provided, it sounds (to me) like she is in quite an abusive relationship. Even though she may be going back and forth on the times there is peace in the relationship, she has written a long list of adjectives of what screams to me abusive behavior. I am taking her post at face value, trusting that she is being truthful in what she portrays. I am speaking to that position. I can't take responsibility for her being dishonest in her portrayal of the situation....That's on her. However, I have been around a lot of the psychology surrounding abusive situations for many years. I may not have a degree; but, I've certainly heard and read about it. BR exhibits a lot of the thought patterns of an abused person, to me. This combined with the behavior she described about her husband prompted me to write what I did.

I don't know if you follow my comments on posts in general. There was one not long ago about a man who has lost a great deal of weight and how his marriage is failing. I took that at face value as well. Meaning, I trusted the writer's honesty in the portrayal of his marriage. Why not go and read what I wrote? I believe you have commented on that thread.

While I have deep issues concerning the abuse I experienced as a child by my dad, the major male figure in our home, I don't view all men as abusive or, especially, as deserving to be abused. No one deserves abuse.

While I don't know the actual number in the statistic of women abusing men, I do know it is far less than the statistics on men abusing women....Men are generally bigger and physically stronger then women. I have seen many abusive men throughout my life and some abusive women. This doesn't negate the fact that the majority of women worldwide and throughout time have been oppressed and discriminated against simply because of their gender. It is very new for women to be given the right to vote and the right to own property....Women are still discriminated against in the work place by not receiving equal pay for equal time and quality of work. There are many 3rd world countries who support a man beating his wife...the list goes on and on.

I don't know her husband. I don't know you. I do know that I can usually smell abusive situations miles off. This is what I was answering to.

Dove

[Guest kshRox]

Thank you for the input.

I haven't spoken in superlatives and did acknowledge that I am not a professional. I was hoping it would be understood that what I was stating was my opinion. While it is a lay person's opinion, it is one I stand by.

Given the information BR has provided, it sounds (to me) like she is in quite an abusive relationship. Even though she may be going back and forth on the times there is peace in the relationship, she has written a long list of adjectives of what screams to me abusive behavior. I am taking her post at face value, trusting that she is being truthful in what she portrays. I am speaking to that position. I can't take responsibility for her being dishonest in her portrayal of the situation....That's on her. However, I have been around a lot of the psychology surrounding abusive situations for many years. I may not have a degree; but, I've certainly heard and read about it. BR exhibits a lot of the thought patterns of an abused person, to me. This combined with the behavior she described about her husband prompted me to write what I did.

I don't know if you follow my comments on posts in general. There was one not long ago about a man who has lost a great deal of weight and how his marriage is failing. I took that at face value as well. Meaning, I trusted the writer's honesty in the portrayal of his marriage. Why not go and read what I wrote? I believe you have commented on that thread.

While I have deep issues concerning the abuse I experienced as a child by my dad, the major male figure in our home, I don't view all men as abusive or, especially, as deserving to be abused. No one deserves abuse.

While I don't know the actual number in the statistic of women abusing men, I do know it is far less than the statistics on men abusing women....Men are generally bigger and physically stronger then women. I have seen many abusive men throughout my life and some abusive women. This doesn't negate the fact that the majority of women worldwide and throughout time have been oppressed and discriminated against simply because of their gender. It is very new for women to be given the right to vote and the right to own property....Women are still discriminated against in the work place by not receiving equal pay for equal time and quality of work. There are many 3rd world countries who support a man beating his wife...the list goes on and on.

I don't know her husband. I don't know you. I do know that I can usually smell abusive situations miles off. This is what I was answering to.

Dove

I wouldn't disagree with you about statistics however I would remind you that statistics are only as good as their data sets and data sets in my opinion and experience are usually weighted for the results they are looking for.

I'm saying BR is not consistent in her statements but her statements are enough to have someone arrested, their income, home and children confiscated - yes in American based upon an accusation without proof or evidence. It truly is a case of guilty until proven innocent.

Misandry is alive and well.

What I'm saying is BR is being reckless and inappropriate to make these accusations without clarity. If she feels she is in danger (not the same as being in danger) she should remove herself from the environment and evaluate the situation objectively.

I have little regard for your sense of smell either, especially when it comes in regard of another mans rights and liberty.

You have a bigots view that presumes men are pigs and women are honest victims.

And yes to spell it out clearly I'm calling you a gender - bigot and a bully.

Give this man the benefit of the doubt and have BR gain some clarity before making criminal accusations.

If her husband is abusive, he should be dealt with according to legal dictates.

If not, his reputation, freedom, access to children, income and career should not be put at risk because someone is not sure how they feel.

Edited December 25, 2012 by kshRox

[skippy740]

thread closed