Can We All Be Future Messiahs?

[Nate]

I disagree with you. Everyone and everything needs the Atonement. The earth fell when Adam and Eve fell. When Christ comes again and touches the earth it will change back to terrestrial. The earth will become celestial along with everything in and on it. That is why the the earth was baptized by water (Noah) and will be baptized by fire (second coming). John saw animals praising God in vision. The animals have fallen as well cause they can and do die. The very elements that have intelligence will progress and resurrect because the Atonement is eternal and vicarious for all His creations.

[rosie321]

I disagree with you. Everyone and everything needs the Atonement. The earth fell when Adam and Eve fell. When Christ comes again and touches the earth it will change back to terrestrial. The earth will become celestial along with everything in and on it. That is why the the earth was baptized by water (Noah) and will be baptized by fire (second coming). John saw animals praising God in vision. The animals have fallen as well cause they can and do die. The very elements that have intelligence will progress and resurrect because the Atonement is eternal and vicarious for all His creations.

Very interesting. Never thought of it that way before , the animals needing repenting and all genesis 6:7, baptism of earth by fire and water.... there's always an internal and external pattern when it comes to God.. Neat

[CrimsonKairos]

First, I do not believe animals need to repent. Saying they need the atonement in my mind only refers to the resurrection. Animals don't "disobey" God or fail to pay tithing. The only "commandment" they are under is to multiply after their kind. As long as cows don't give birth to alligators, no repentance necessary.

Second, the atonement applies not just to this earth but to all our Father's spirit children on whatever world they inhabit (and there are innumerable worlds like this one that fall under Jesus' grace). I believe the atonement follows the priesthood principle of stewardship and righteous dominion, i.e. Christ's atonement wouldn't apply to anyone else's spirit children other than our Father in Heaven's.

The very elements that have intelligence will progress and resurrect because the Atonement is eternal and vicarious for all His creations.

Interesting to speculate about, but there's no sound doctrinal foundation for this teaching. At least, not if you're saying what I think you're saying.

[Nate]

Second, the atonement applies not just to this earth but to all our Father's spirit children on whatever world they inhabit (and there are innumerable worlds like this one that fall under Jesus' grace). I believe the atonement follows the priesthood principle of stewardship and righteous dominion, i.e. Christ's atonement wouldn't apply to anyone else's spirit children other than our Father in Heaven's.

Perfect

Interesting to speculate about, but there's no sound doctrinal foundation for this teaching. At least, not if you're saying what I think you're saying

Drawing upon a talk from Cleon W Sckousin on the Atonement (spelling) Not implying that the elements are disobediant but have been placed in a fallen state from man cause man had dominion of earth. Man fell and what he had dominion of fell. The elements are obedient but need to go through the same process. Nothing will skip a step, even from Telestial to Celestial. Everything progresses in the order that has been set forth.

[rosie321]

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quote name='CrimsonKairos' date='Feb 21 2007, 05:48 PM' post='122426]

First, I do not believe animals need to repent. Saying they need the atonement in my mind only refers to the resurrection. Animals don't "disobey" God or fail to pay tithing. The only "commandment" they are under is to multiply after their kind. As long as cows don't give birth to alligators, no repentance necessary

.

All flesh went out of the will of God and made Him rather mad. Out of the will of God implies sin. A cleansing had to be done.

Genesis 6

12And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

[CrimsonKairos]

The word "flesh" in those verses refers to mankind. It's contextually clear from Gen. 6.

In verse 3, God refers to man as "flesh."

In verse 5, we see that man is wicked.

In verse 6, God is grieved that He made man.

Then in verse 12 God sees that flesh (which is man, remember v.3) is corrupt (remember v.5) and so He decides to destory them.

In addition, the word "flesh" in those verses comes from the Hebrew word "basar," which Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible defines as:

1320 baw-sawr'

flesh (from its freshness; by extens. body, person; also (by euphem.) the pudenda of a man.

All italics are in the original, no emphasis added.

I've found no scriptures that suggest animals need repentance.

Nate: The talk by Skousen is an interesting one indeed, and I believe many things he shares in it. I'm not too sure anymore about everything he says about intelligences. But it's interesting stuff nonetheless.

[Nate]

He has had some critics in his teachings but I find them rather insightfull. The whole thousand year series is incredible.

[Chanteemomof6]

Here is the simplified verstion of our excistantce. NO DISREPECT TO HEAVENLY HOST OR ANYONE ELSE!!!!!!!!!

Phase One: Our brothers tell us of their plan, for us to receive bodies and come back to our father's bosom. Theses two children were our eldest but were in disagreement over our father's proposed plan. So begins the first war of many for us. When the battle fields clear the children are Divide. The ones that chose the son of the morning (lucifer) are cast out.

Phase two: Our learning continues in the premortal. We are presented with different paths that we can take.

Different spouses that we could have and different parents that we could have. Each choice leading you down a different path.

Different ailment and afflictions that we could have. Now we had to choose something. For the plan is a perfect plan everyone has to have trials to be fair. For all of us who got bodies need to be tested to see if we were worthy to come home.

Now you might ask yourself why would any person choose cancer or any other fast killing aliment. God couldn't tell us, the full details of every affiliation, think about it 90% of our duobts in heavenly father come from an ailment for an infliction in us or someone that we love, so then we have the harder road then others but this is why.....

Phase three: We are about to have bodies. The choices that we make from here until mortal death are all being watched and part of a giant test of life. There are some who chose the fast path back to our father. They ask naively , Heavenly Father I love you so much I don't want to waste time to see you again. Tell me the fastest way that I can be back with you. Now Heaven Father sat his child on his lap and cried. Overwelmend with love he told his child this path is the most difficult one for you and the ones that love you. Their will be emotional and physcial pain. This is a hard path, but if you can endure it, it is the fastest path back to me. for the test and trials that you will encounter all will be watch with my loving eyes. You may feel alone at times and think why is this happening to me. He promomises that he will be with you always and hopes that you will be taught by the ones that love you to just have faith in your father in heaven and you will be with him soon

Phase Four: We make choices in our lives that set us up for which kingdom of glory we will abtain.

We are judged and sorted persay to knowledge that was given to us in this world and what we did with it.

Phase Five: Resuration Judgment time

Phase Six : we enter the kingdom which our lifes actions choose for us.

Phase Seven: Those of us who were rightous enough to enter the highest degree of the celestrial glory get to start the cycle of games over again. With our first spirit child being the savior for the first game.

This could be pages long but i hope that people who have been to the temple remember these words that I write to given a simpler picture. P>S> please ignore my grammar and spelling. My computer was tweeking.

[Shade]

what's spiritual? and what goes to the after-life?

it is written that everything was created spiritually before it was created temporally. it's up to us what we do to get there, however.

Chantee, i love your description (especially) of phase 3. i have often thought about my own life.

sure, most of the pain was due to poor choices, but i believe that my Heavenly Father allowed me to make those choices and, for some time now, He has been using what i have learned in the process to help to change and maybe even save the lives of others in my recovery program, possibly sparing them at least some of the emotional and spiritual pain which i suffered. i have learned many lessons in humility, patience, faith, compassion, charity, honesty, love, willingness. i have learned - albeit the "hard way" - that i am no better nor worse than the next person. i have learned that my hardships and my suffering and my desperation have been some of the greatest gifts that my Heavenly Father could ever have bestowed upon me.

i don't ALWAYS get it right, but in Sacrament last Sunday, i was reminded that i am a "work in progress". and just for today, that's probably more grace than i deserve.

and the next life? or the next part of this life, rather? you know what, as i sit here tonight, i would be eternally grateful for whatever the Lord in His infinite mercy sees fit to bestow upon me. am i worthy of Godhood? not a chance. despite the little i have learned, i am all too often quick to anger, judgemental, selfish and self-centred, dishonest, arrogant, proud, obscene, lazy and obstinate.

and yet, as rotten as i may be sometimes, when i am able to get out of my own head and recognise God's spirit in those around me, my eyes well up because the true beauty of this world lies in the smallest, simplest things.

it doesn't matter what He has in store for me. what matters - what really matters - is my daughter's smile and shouts of joy when she sees me walk in my front door; watching my son place 1st in his track meeting last saturday; seeing some of my estranged family for the first time in years at Sacrament this Sunday; realising that my Saviour loves me no matter what; my little girl's swing that hangs from the apricot tree in my garden and the moments we spend together beneath it's leafy boughs; the hand-made pictures on my office wall; being able to wake up sober this morning; having a roof over my head, these days; not needing to beg for food, the way i sometimes did when i was on drugs; warm clothing and a soft pillow upon which to lay my weary head tonight...

so, just for today, i'd be happy to make it into heaven in any form, shape or size, regardless of the frills and bonus tracks. if my Heavenly Father sees fit to forgive me and guide me and accept me, i'd gladly be his servant.

[Chanteemomof6]

God and satan know our weaknesses so well. The difference is God helps us make those weaknessess strengths.