What exactly is meant by "son of perdition"

[Chango]

Hello,

I did my best to search for this topic before posting but found understandably little. So I was wondering if perhaps others more knowledgeable than myself would be willing to contribute or help me understand a little better.

I have always understood this to mean a person or individual who has for one reason or another received indisputable proof (meaning actual physical evidence) of the existence of God, Jesus, and his gospel and then willfully chosen to turn and fight against them/this. Please correct me if I am wrong in my understanding.

I have always found the wording to be a bit unclear in the scriptures as to what exactly is meant by “denial of the holy ghost.” When I hear this it simply makes me think of any and all church members that if they were to turn away from the church then they meet this qualification but that certainly can't be right can it?

[Vort]

"Perdition" means "lost", and refers to those who utterly reject God (such as Satan) and also to the "kingdom" in which they dwell. "Sons of perdition" are therefore those who dwell there, or equivalently, those who follow Satan and make him their father.

We have no final, authoritative word on exactly what constitutes a son of perdition. Many have offered the opinion that only forthright rejection of God after an indisputable witness would qualify someone for the position. I disagree. It seems clear to me that anyone who truly loves and embraces darkness and despises light and truth could follow after wickedness so much that he or she could become a son (or daughter) of perdition. I know that at least some Church leaders have shared this same opinion. But I know of no final word on such matters, and I assume the great Arbiter will decide as seems good to him.

[Guest gopecon]

Vort's post seems to make a distinction between a "son of perdition" and someone who commits the unpardonable sin of denying the Holy Ghost. I've always assumed that they were one and the same, but perhaps not. It does make sense that those who come here and consciously seek to follow the adversary could also fall into that category.

Denying the Holy Ghost has been defined as one who rebels against a sure knowledge of the Savior. Not just a powerful witness of the Spirit, but actual knowledge.

[Dravin]

My thoughts on the matter: http://www.lds.net/forums/advice-board/47455-can-i-still-saved.html#post681581

[Chango]

ive always wondered why it is that cain is referred to as a son of perdition, Yes he murdered his brother but it takes more than to just be guilty of murder to become a son of perdition, correct?

Edited February 15, 2013 by Chango

[Dravin]

ive always wondered why it is that cain is referred to as a son of perdition, Yes he murdered his brother but it takes more than to just be guilty of murder to become a son of perdition, correct?

Of course, Cain is guilty of more than just murdering his brother.

18 And Cain loved Satan more than God. And Satan commanded him, saying: Make an offering unto the Lord.

Cain loves Satan more than God and is following Satan's commands, not Gods.

22 And the Lord said unto Cain: Why art thou wroth? Why is thy countenance fallen?

23 If thou doest well, thou shalt be accepted. And if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door, and Satan desireth to have thee; and except thou shalt hearken unto my commandments, I will deliver thee up, and it shall be unto thee according to his desire. And thou shalt rule over him;

24 For from this time forth thou shalt be the father of his lies; thou shalt be called Perdition; for thou wast also before the world.

25 And it shall be said in time to come—That these abominations were had from Cain; for he rejected the greater counsel which was had from God; and this is a cursing which I will put upon thee, except thou repent.

After Cain is angry that his offering made at the command of Satan isn't pleasing unto the Lord the Lord warns him that he needs to repent and what will happen if he doesn't.

26 And Cain was wroth, and listened not any more to the voice of the Lord, neither to Abel, his brother, who walked in holiness before the Lord.

27 And Adam and his wife mourned before the Lord, because of Cain and his brethren.

28 And it came to pass that Cain took one of his brothers’ daughters to wife, and they loved Satan more than God.

29 And Satan said unto Cain: Swear unto me by thy throat, and if thou tell it thou shalt die; and swear thy brethren by their heads, and by the living God, that they tell it not; for if they tell it, they shall surely die; and this that thy father may not know it; and this day I will deliver thy brother Abel into thine hands.

30 And Satan sware unto Cain that he would do according to his commands. And all these things were done in secret.

31 And Cain said: Truly I am Mahan, the master of this great secret, that I may murder and get gain. Wherefore Cain was called Master Mahan, and he gloried in his wickedness.

Cain doesn't repent, continues in his love of Satan and actually enters into a covenant with Satan to commit murder and cover it up. He revels in this.

32 And Cain went into the field, and Cain talked with Abel, his brother. And it came to pass that while they were in the field, Cain rose up against Abel, his brother, and slew him.

33 And Cain gloried in that which he had done, saying: I am free; surely the flocks of my brother falleth into my hands.

Cain kills his brother Abel in premeditated murder and revels in it. The rest of the narrative is Cain complaining that he's being punished, there isn't really any indication of true remorse (aka Godly sorrow). Describing Cains actions as simply murdering his Brother is overly simplistic.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Dravin

[Chango]

Dravin,

Thank you for your response, and knowledge which exceeds my own. I am by no means a scriptorian but your narrative definately helps me to see how much more is actually contained in these few verses. One last question if I may, what is meant by the end of verse 23 "...and it shall be unto thee according to his desire, and thou shalt rule over him."? Is this referring to Cain ruling over Satan?

[Vort]

One last question if I may, what is meant by the end of verse 23 "...and it shall be unto thee according to his desire, and thou shalt rule over him."? Is this referring to Cain ruling over Satan?

Needless to say, I'm not Dravin, but here is my take.

This verse seems to say, "Satan will do with you as he wants, and you will be Satan's boss." These two seemingly contradictory sentiments have led generations of Latter-day Saints to wonder what's up with this verse of scripture. The "traditional" interpretation, if there is one, is that Cain ultimately trumps Satan because he has a body, so therefore he (Cain) will be The Big Kahuna in outer darkness. I believe McConkie said as much in Mormon Doctrine (no promises on the pseudo-citation).

This has never made much sense to me, though to be honest I haven't really given the scripture years of pondering or anything. We know that Cain is called the father of Satan's lies, which is rather obvious, since Cain brought to fruition in mortality the very lies Satan told, and for the same reasons: To usurp glory and honor from God. I tend to think that the concept in the verse may just not have been transmitted (or perhaps translated) clearly over the years. Satan and Cain both rule in their illegitimate, self-constructed kingdoms, mockeries of God's divine kingdom. One may rule under the auspices of another; I don't know. I kind of suspect this is ultimately saying something like that Cain and Satan are pretty much interchangeable as far as their effect on the human race.

[Dravin]

Dravin,

Thank you for your response, and knowledge which exceeds my own. I am by no means a scriptorian but your narrative definately helps me to see how much more is actually contained in these few verses. One last question if I may, what is meant by the end of verse 23 "...and it shall be unto thee according to his desire, and thou shalt rule over him."? Is this referring to Cain ruling over Satan?

I read it as:

1. Satan desires to have Cain and he shall if Cain continues on his path. Instead of being Christ's and a partaker of salvation Cain is Satan's and a partaker of damnation.

2. As Vort mentions:

All beings who have bodies have power over those who have not.

Link: Joseph Smith Jr. - Quotes

As far as the apparent contradiction, while Cain may ultimately rule over Satan he is very much a creature of Satan's. Though I suppose ultimately it depends on what the Lord means when he talks about Satan's desiring to have Cain. There is also the question of if what is described is sequential, would anyone doubt that Satan achieved his desires where Cain was concerned if only in mortality?

[Martain]

Those in this life who gain a perfect knowledge of the divinity of the gospel cause, a knowledge that comes only by revelation from the Holy Ghost, and who then link themselves with Lucifer and come out in open rebellion, also become sons of perdition. Their destiny, following their resurrection, is to be cast out with the devil and his angels, to inherit the same kingdom in a state where "their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."

One can not become a son/daughter of perdition by accident, ignorantly or unintentionally. It is a deliberate and intentional act.

[Misshalfway]

Sons of perdition?

They are big mean jerks in the spirit world.

[Traveler]

The word perdition comes from the ancient Greek "appolyon" and is considered the translation of the Hebrew "abaddon" or in English abandoned. The word is meant to imply complete ruin or destruction. This is also a title given to or denoting the Devil or Satan or in other words is a name or title of Satan. In ancient scripture the phrase "son of" denotes the establishment of a covenant. We see this use even in modern scripture in the 84th section of the Doctrine and Covenants where those that take upon them the priesthood covenant become the "sons of" Moses and Aaron as well as the sons of G-d.

Thus the phrase "son of perdition" means one that is in covenant with Satan or one that has made covenant with Satan to be their G-d. This is not just someone that has sinned really badly and enjoyed it. It is, by literal meaning, someone that rejects covenants with G-d and knowingly enters into covenant with Satan - it is the ultimate treason to reject and overthrow G-d and establish Satan as G-d.

The Traveler