SF_Giants66 Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 james12 was rightfully confused, as in the upper right corner of your posts it says Mormon/LDS/Christian. ~TGMy apologies. I fixed that. It was the default setting when joining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james12 Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 I haven't been a member of this church for two years. Well at least your consistent. But it is my witness the Holy Ghost can manifest truth to us so that we are certain in our mind. It is a very personal journey of faith, personal action, and witness. The world will never recognize it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF_Giants66 Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 Well at least your consistent. But it is my witness the Holy Ghost can manifest truth to us so that we are certain in our mind. It is a very personal journey of faith, personal action, and witness. The world will never recognize it.What make the holy ghost different than people of other religions claiming they have some divine revelation from metaphysical power? People of other religious claim just as honestly and sincerely of their beliefs. When I was a Mormon I argued with some Christians who left the Mormon church claiming they got insight that The Book of Mormon was false. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tough Grits Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 My apologies. I fixed that. It was the default setting when joining. Yes, I see that it says "Atheist" now. That will keep others from further confusion too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james12 Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 What make the holy ghost different than people of other religions claiming they have some divine revelation from metaphysical power? People of other religious claim just as honestly and sincerely of their beliefs. When I was a Mormon I argued with some Christians who left the Mormon church claiming they got insight that The Book of Mormon was false. I have heard the same. However, the Holy Ghost manifests truth, so either the Book of Mormon is true as the Lord stated, or it is not. The Spirit will not witness both. Now, in such cases I have no idea what happened to the other person. Men are not consistent. It may be that he misunderstood the prompting, or he may not have prayed or read the book, I don't know. But in any case I don't need to know about what happened to him. I know what I have been given and I will not doubt because a man speaks otherwise. If I did this I would soon be lost because I trusted man instead of God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF_Giants66 Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 I have heard the same. However, the Holy Ghost manifests truth, so either the Book of Mormon is true as the Lord stated, or it is not. The Spirit will not witness both. Now, in such cases I have no idea what happened to the other person. Men are not consistent. It may be that he misunderstood the prompting, or he may not have prayed or read the book, I don't know. But in any case I don't need to know about what happened to him. I know what I have been given and I will not doubt because a man speaks otherwise. If I did this I would soon be lost because I trusted man instead of God.So couldn't it be possible that you misunderstood the prompting then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james12 Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) So couldn't it be possible that you misunderstood the prompting then?It is possible and it does happen. However, once I receive a prompting and follow the Spirit additional witness follows. This course of faith, action, witness continues to build over time. Line upon line, drop by drop. Taken as a whole the evidence of the Spirit is overwhelming. So for something like the Book of Mormon I have felt the witness so many times in so many circumstances and situations that I know it is true. Edited March 9, 2013 by james12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF_Giants66 Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 It is possible and it does happen. However, once I receive a prompting and follow the Spirit additional witness follows. This course of faith, action, witness continues to build over time. Line upon line, drop by drop. Taken as a whole the evidence of the Spirit is overwhelming.When people say an additional witness follows I usually take that to be a self-fulfilling prophecy given that it isn't a coincidence. I've seen and experienced a lot of strange things when I was a believer of the LDS church as well, but nothing that will ever make me believe certain feelings were any kind of revelation outside of my own mind. If god gave us our intellect and intelligence to decide what is best, why do we have to have all these rules and arbitrary standards to follow which takes away ability to decide for ourselves?It is also easy for us to say something is wrong when it isn't something we'd ever do in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james12 Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 When people say an additional witness follows I usually take that to be a self-fulfilling prophecy given that it isn't a coincidence. I've seen and experienced a lot of strange things when I was a believer of the LDS church as well, but nothing that will ever make me believe certain feelings were any kind of revelation outside of my own mind.Not all experiences of the spirit continue in such a course. I have on a number of occasions thought I should take one course of action and then latter had a clear indication that my first inclination was wrong. Later evidence has shown me that my first thoughts were indeed wrong. If god gave us our intellect and intelligence to decide what is best, why do we have to have all these rules and arbitrary standards to follow which takes away ability to decide for ourselves?It is also easy for us to say something is wrong when it isn't something we'd ever do in the first place.We need to use all the gifts given to us by the Lord to navigate this life. This includes intellect and intelligence but it also includes promptings of the Holy Ghost. I would not throw any one of those out the window. However, revelation is sometimes very clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 If god gave us our intellect and intelligence to decide what is best, why do we have to have all these rules and arbitrary standards to follow which takes away ability to decide for ourselves?Because sometimes our desire to engage in a particular course of conduct regardless of revelation is so very strong, that we'll convince ourselves of all manner of hooey in order to justify doing it. For example, I may convince myself that the possibility of contracting some bizarre medical condition justifies my doing something that the Lord has consistently warned against.It helps to have a relatively impartial observer who can serve as a cross-check on our own personal revelations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanctitasDeo Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 If god gave us our intellect and intelligence to decide what is best, why do we have to have all these rules and arbitrary standards to follow which takes away ability to decide for ourselves?I would add that no rule has ever taken away my ability to decide for myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrShorty Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 A few of my own thoughts on the OP that may be worth discussion: 1) Traveler in post #4 mentioned the principle of common consent. On possible measure of "when is a prophet speaking as a prophet" is when it is presented to the church and "canonized" into the standard works. Of course, since Joseph Smith, there is only a handful of "revelations" that will fit this standard. From the principle of common consent, can anything not canonized the way section 138 was canonized be binding on the church as a whole? 2) Another principle I see is -- can the principles taught by the prophet be found in the standard works? I don't want this to be seen as advocating some mormon version of sola scriptura, but it does seem like those prophetic statements that I can publicly stand behind and ask my fellow saints to stand behind have a solid basis in the scriptures. Those statements that I'm not sure about either are not supported by scripture or are long extrapolations from or speculation on scripture. Again, I don't want this to seem like I'm advocating a mormon version of sola scriptura, just that the standard works are called standard because they are supposed to be the standard by which we judge all alleged truth. 3) I will agree that the role of the Holy Ghost in all of this is to help us judge for ourselves individually when something is prophetic and when it is not. When I receive such a witness, in addition to questions around whether or not my own witness is true, can I stand and require that my fellow saints obtain the same witness that I have received? Or am I limited to testifying of my own witness as it pertains to me and let God decide whether or not to provide my brothers and sisters with the same witness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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