The Timing Of Our Death

[StrawberryFields]

The timing of our death...does the Lord have a hand in it beyond our making a stupid mistake like playing in the street?

This is a topic that came up in another thread and I wanted to explore it more.

In the past I have heard that it was the Lords Will that so and so survived an accident. I have also heard it said that we need to complete our journey while we are here on earth.

Where do we get our knowledge about the timing of our death?

[CrimsonKairos]

Many of us were foreordained to certain missions and duties in this life. I'm feeling lazy right now, sorry for not giving chapter and verse.

We may, by our choices, shirk those duties and fail to live up to our potential.

Nowhere have I read that everyone is guaranteed to die when they're "supposed to."

Consider patriarchal blessings. They're not predictions. They're possibilities based on our obedience and choices.

I certainly believe that some people are spared from death for purposes known to God. I do not believe everyone who dies was meant to, or that everyone who survives was meant to. Much of this life is the result of our actions. We are not predestined to die on a certain day, in a certain way.

Anyone asserting that we are, bears the burden of furnishing proof from the scriptures or writings of the prophets to that effect.

[StrawberryFields]

Many of us were foreordained to certain missions and duties in this life. I'm feeling lazy right now, sorry for not giving chapter and verse.

We may, by our choices, shirk those duties and fail to live up to our potential.

Nowhere have I read that everyone is guaranteed to die when they're "supposed to."

Consider patriarchal blessings. They're not predictions. They're possibilities based on our obedience and choices.

I certainly believe that some people are spared from death for purposes known to God. I do not believe everyone who dies was meant to, or that everyone who survives was meant to. Much of this life is the result of our actions. We are not predestined to die on a certain day, in a certain way.

Anyone asserting that we are, bears the burden of furnishing proof from the scriptures or writings of the prophets to that effect.

CK, thanks for your reply.

You said that many of us have a foreordained mission, why don't we all have one?

I understand your analogy about the patriarchal blessing and whether we fulfill our mission here on earth.

When you mention that that everyone who dies was not meant to I think of the people in the 9-11 Tragedy. I don't believe that they were all meant to parish.

I believe it happened because of the choices of the wicked.

[CrimsonKairos]

I agree.

[Traveler]

Becaise I believe in agency - I believe that we are living out our own plan.

The Traveler

[BenRaines]

There was a conference talk a couple of years ago or perhaps less. The point of the talk is that bad things happen to good people not always because of the actions of the good person but someone else acting out their agency.

Does a good wife deserve or has she earned abuse from an abusive spouse? No but spouse is using own agency.

A child hurt or killed in a car accident. Is that to punish us or to teach us? Not always, perhaps the child acting on their own agency caused the tragedy.

These are things to think about it our daily lives. I do not believe that we are puppets on God's strings and he moves us around to cause or prevent problems or joys in our lives. We fought for and God granted us agency. It is now our responsibility to wisely use that agency. It is soothing to the concience to think that God put me here and did this to me but not always the case. I would argue that most often not the case.

True the experiences will be for our good but I do not believe that that path is marked for me and I am an ant following the scent path with little or no choice because every step is already planned out for me.

Ben Raines

[Serg]

Many of us were foreordained to certain missions and duties in this life. I'm feeling lazy right now, sorry for not giving chapter and verse.

We may, by our choices, shirk those duties and fail to live up to our potential.

Nowhere have I read that everyone is guaranteed to die when they're "supposed to."

Consider patriarchal blessings. They're not predictions. They're possibilities based on our obedience and choices.

I certainly believe that some people are spared from death for purposes known to God. I do not believe everyone who dies was meant to, or that everyone who survives was meant to. Much of this life is the result of our actions. We are not predestined to die on a certain day, in a certain way.

Anyone asserting that we are, bears the burden of furnishing proof from the scriptures or writings of the prophets to that effect.

Very Wise.

Becaise I believe in agency - I believe that we are living out our own plan.

The Traveler

"True the experiences will be for our good but I do not believe that that path is marked for me and I am an ant following the scent path with little or no choice because every step is already planned out for me."

Also very clever. Specially when people speak of tragedy as an instrument of teaching, how false is that as a categorical "statement"! Trajedies are a result of actions(wrong ones) and such actions are expected as a byproduct of freedom but not hoped for (by God) as a sure way of goodness to make us learn. They in themselves are not instruments of learning, only the prevailing Mind, the conciousness and mentality of one who goes through it really can give it some shape, be it disaster or of a positive outcome, it resides in the person, not in the event.

Even more wise.

[Shade]

as i mentioned in that other thread, perhaps it is my own experience, strength and hope that has led me to a firm belief that my Heavenly Father alone, decides when it is time for me to go.

i have a huge problem understanding a statement that a child - through its own agency - may be responsible for its own death. how can a small child be held accountable for someone else's accidents? what of those below the age of accountability who are involved in motor wrecks? what about accidental drownings? accidents happen all the time. not all are fatal, but how do we explain situations where entire families are wiped out with the exeption of 1 survivor or similar situations?

what of Christ's crucifixion? that murder most foul was perpetrated by men. could it have occured at any other time? to requote something else which i quoted in that other thread: "Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above." this was Christ's response to Pilate when Pilate tol Him that he had power over his life.

someone was asking for other evidence about this topic, so i've done a little searching on the lds.org site. i have found the following couple of passages.

Spencer W. Kimball, “Friend to Friend: Tragedy or Destiny?,” Friend, Apr 1974, 6

God controls our lives and guides and blesses us, but He gives us our free agency. We may live our lives in accordance with His plan for us or we may foolishly shorten or terminate our lives.

I am confident that there is a time to die, but I believe also that many people die before their time because they are careless, abuse their bodies, take unnecessary chances, or expose themselves to hazards, accidents, and sickness.

The Lord does not always heal the sick. He does not always relieve suffering and distress. These may be part of a purposeful plan. Suffering can make saints of people as they learn patience, long suffering, and self-mastery.

The gospel teaches us there is no tragedy in death, but only in sin. Everyone must die. Death is an important part of life. Death may be the opening of the door to opportunity. Of course, we are never quite ready for the change. Not knowing when it should come, we fight to retain our life. Yet we ought not to be afraid of death.

Russell M. Nelson, “Now Is the Time to Prepare,” Ensign, May 2005, 16

Because of frequent and frightening calamities in the world, some people doubt the existence of God. But, in fact, He is trying to help us. He revealed these words: “How oft have I called upon you by the mouth of my servants, and by the ministering of angels, and by mine own voice, and by the voice of thunderings, and … tempests, … earthquakes, … great hailstorms, … famines and pestilences of every kind, … and would have saved you with an everlasting salvation, but ye would not!"

some food for thought.

according to President Kimball there is a time to die but i should probably be dead because of my foolishness and according to Russell M. Nelson my calamities are sent to help me.

perhaps the message is more personal than general and perhaps the message i gleaned from church as a youngster was also a personal message.

[BenRaines]

So a time to die, but. As President Kimball said "There are many" who die sooner than their time. As would happen to me if I went and played on the freeway.

Ben Raines

[Shade]

raise your hands and slowly step away from the freeway, Ben!