How do you know the church is true?

[angrivated]

I asked someone how they knew Jesus Christ was our lord and savior, and she said it was proved to her outside of the confines of the church, and it wasn't just a feeling. I figured she'd seen Jesus step in front of her car and stop her from driving through an intersection where a sleeping truck driver was running a red light, but she wouldn't tell me.

Would you like to tell me how you know the church is true? I'd like specific examples please.

[annewandering]

Sometimes there are no specific examples. For me it is something I just knew. As time has gone by there have been incidents that support my belief but nothing that proved it. In fact if we have proof/evidence we have no need of faith. We are not here to prove. We are here to have faith.

Some of the things that supported my belief are: When our babies died. When we were sealed as a family forever. When our children were born. When my dad died. When I have sat quietly and felt the spirit fill my soul with joy. When I read the Book of Mormon and am touched to tears. When I taste fresh peaches off the tree. All things testify of Him. If we listen.

[Martain]

I will tell you of an experience I had before I was a General Authority which affected me profoundly. I sat on a plane next to a professed atheist who pressed his disbelief in God so urgently that I bore my testimony to him. “You are wrong,” I said, “there is a God. I know He lives! ”

He protested, “You don’t know. Nobody knows that! You can’t know it!” When I would not yield, the atheist, who was an attorney, asked perhaps the ultimate question on the subject of testimony. “All right,” he said in a sneering, condescending way, “you say you know. Tell me how you know.”

When I attempted to answer, even though I held advanced academic degrees, I was helpless to communicate.

Sometimes in your youth, you young missionaries are embarrassed when the cynic, the skeptic, treat you with contempt because you do not have ready answers for everything. Before such ridicule, some turn away in shame. (Remember the iron rod, the spacious building, and the mocking? See 1 Ne. 8:28.)

When I used the words Spirit and witness, the atheist responded, “I don’t know what you are talking about.” The words prayer, discernment, and faith, were equally meaningless to him. “You see,” he said, “you don’t really know. If you did, you would be able to tell me how you know.”

I felt, perhaps, that I had borne my testimony to him unwisely and was at a loss as to what to do. Then came the experience! Something came into my mind. And I mention here a statement of the Prophet Joseph Smith: “A person may profit by noticing the first intimation of the spirit of revelation; for instance, when you feel pure intelligence flowing into you, it may give you sudden strokes of ideas … and thus by learning the Spirit of God and understanding it, you may grow into the principle of revelation, until you become perfect in Christ Jesus.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, comp. Joseph Fielding Smith, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1977, p. 151.)

Such an idea came into my mind and I said to the atheist, “Let me ask if you know what salt tastes like.”

“Of course I do,” was his reply.

“When did you taste salt last?”

“I just had dinner on the plane.”

“You just think you know what salt tastes like,” I said.

He insisted, “I know what salt tastes like as well as I know anything.”

“If I gave you a cup of salt and a cup of sugar and let you taste them both, could you tell the salt from the sugar?”

“Now you are getting juvenile,” was his reply. “Of course I could tell the difference. I know what salt tastes like. It is an everyday experience—I know it as well as I know anything.”

“Then,” I said, “assuming that I have never tasted salt, explain to me just what it tastes like.”

After some thought, he ventured, “Well-I-uh, it is not sweet and it is not sour.”

“You’ve told me what it isn’t, not what it is.”

After several attempts, of course, he could not do it. He could not convey, in words alone, so ordinary an experience as tasting salt. I bore testimony to him once again and said, “I know there is a God. You ridiculed that testimony and said that if I did know, I would be able to tell you exactly how I know. My friend, spiritually speaking, I have tasted salt. I am no more able to convey to you in words how this knowledge has come than you are to tell me what salt tastes like. But I say to you again, there is a God! He does live! And just because you don’t know, don’t try to tell me that I don’t know, for I do!”(The Candle of the Lord, Apostle Boyd K Packer)

The above being said, I will still try.

I reached a point in my life where it was a matter of life or death to know what truth was. Either this is a God or there is not. Either what I was taught as a child was true or it was not. Truth was somewhere but what it was I did not know.

Originally I intended to search everywhere but the restored Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints first and then if I didn't find the truth I would return to my roots. Though I tried, I could not read the books on the other religions I had purchased. I realized that if what I had been taught was true, if I searched these other paths I would never return to test that door at all.

I saved up a few thousand dollars, booked myself into a health retreat where I would have privacy and good food/nutrition etc, and tested the promise.

Moroni 10:4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

I experimented upon the word of God by planting and nourishing it in my heart to see what would result.

Alma 32:28 Now, we will compare the word unto a seed. Now, if ye give place, that a seed may be planted in your heart, behold, if it be a true seed, or a good seed, if ye do not cast it out by your unbelief, that ye will resist the Spirit of the Lord, behold, it will begin to swell within your breasts; and when you feel these swelling motions, ye will begin to say within yourselves—It must needs be that this is a good seed, or that the word is good, for it beginneth to enlarge my soul; yea, it beginneth to enlighten my understanding, yea, it beginneth to be delicious to me.

29 Now behold, would not this increase your faith? I say unto you, Yea; nevertheless it hath not grown up to a perfect knowledge.

30 But behold, as the seed swelleth, and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow, then you must needs say that the seed is good; for behold it swelleth, and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow. And now, behold, will not this strengthen your faith? Yea, it will strengthen your faith: for ye will say I know that this is a good seed; for behold it sprouteth and beginneth to grow.

31 And now, behold, are ye sure that this is a good seed? I say unto you, Yea; for every seed bringeth forth unto its own likeness.

32 Therefore, if a seed groweth it is good, but if it groweth not, behold it is not good, therefore it is cast away.

How do I know the church is true? I planted the seed, I tested the promise and I received a witness within my heart that this was true. It was a feeling I'd never really enjoyed before. It was a burning in my busom... not of heat, but of light and warmth and happiness and peace...

The feeling which I now enjoy regularly as a gift from God is just as distinguishable as salt but can be just as difficult to explaining the taste of salt.

Have I received any visual or verbal witnesses regarding the truth of this Church and His Gospel? Yes.

Have I received or seen any miraculous miracles? Yes.

Do I feel to share the specific examples? No.

Why not?

Some individuals want a grand witness to accept or believe. No one expects to learn calculus in a day do they? They don't require the teacher to prove that calculus works in one day do they? You start out basic and work way up. Likewise miracles and grand confirming witnesses come after the exercising of faith.

Such greater witnesses as I have received are sacred and special and were given to me for my benefit. Why would my sacred experiences be any more believable than the witnesses of current and past prophets and other individuals who have seen and conversed with the Lord?

Suppose I were to share such examples with you... I'll tell you this... the soft and gentle comforting touch of the Lord within my breast via the power of the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost is far more often and has a far more powerful effect upon me.

I can testify to you that I know that Jesus Christ lives and is my Redeemer and Savior. I can testify that I know that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is personally lead by Him and is the only true and living church on the earth and the only church that has the authority of the Priesthood to act in God's name for the salvation of his children. I can testify that Joseph Smith did indeed see what he said he saw and did indeed translate the Book of Mormon at the command and by the power of God. The book is true and the church is true and there is modern day revelation and prophets. God does still speak with mankind.

I can tell anyone these things in perfect honesty but if they want to know how... how do I explain the taste of salt if you've never tasted it? If you want to know what salt tastes like, eat some salt. If you want to learn math then open the text book and study. If you want to know whether there is a God or not and whether the Book of Mormon and this church are true, read the scriptures and test the promise given above.

Sincerely,

Brother M.

[angrivated]

Sometimes there are no specific examples. For me it is something I just knew.

How do you know? What does that mean? It's just something you feel?

As time has gone by there have been incidents that support my belief but nothing that proved it.

What incidents?

In fact if we have proof/evidence we have no need of faith. We are not here to prove. We are here to have faith.

You're right, if there's proof, we have no need of faith. If we need faith, why are things proved over time? How do you know we're here to have faith?

Some of the things that supported my belief are: When our babies died. When we were sealed as a family forever. When our children were born. When my dad died.

How do any of these things support your knowledge that it's true? How do your babies dying confirm that? How does being sealed convince you that being sealed is required for salvation? How does your children being born make you realize a church is true that was not required for you to have babies, and that does not prevent other mothers from feeling something magical after seeing their babies for the first time? How does your dad dying prove to you that the church is true?

When I have sat quietly and felt the spirit fill my soul with joy. When I read the Book of Mormon and am touched to tears. When I taste fresh peaches off the tree. All things testify of Him. If we listen.

I've felt a lot of wonderful things just like this doing things not related to the church, not in context of the church. I've felt joy in my soul when I learned someone kicked an alcohol habit, I cried when I read a book by Robert Frost, I love fresh pears off a tree, but that didn't convince me a certain book in a certain religion was true... just trying to connect the dots here. I think you feel because you get good feelings with the Book of Mormon and other things, and that someone told you it was true and that you'd get good feelings about it, that that makes the Book of Mormon true. So far this just seems to be about feelings.

[angrivated]

I reached a point in my life where it was a matter of life or death to know what truth was. Either this is a God or there is not. Either what I was taught as a child was true or it was not. Truth was somewhere but what it was I did not know.

Thank you for your story Martain. I would never consider killing myself over whether God exists or not, but I would rather you believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster than kill yourself.

Originally I intended to search everywhere but the restored Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints first and then if I didn't find the truth I would return to my roots. Though I tried, I could not read the books on the other religions I had purchased. I realized that if what I had been taught was true, if I searched these other paths I would never return to test that door at all.

If you were born into another religion, would you be unable to read the Book of Mormon?

How do I know the church is true? I planted the seed, I tested the promise and I received a witness within my heart that this was true. It was a feeling I'd never really enjoyed before. It was a burning in my busom... not of heat, but of light and warmth and happiness and peace...

I would like you to tell your story on any other Christian board, Moroni quotes and all. I'm sure they have their own stories related to their bible just like this, and would never consider going down the road of Mormonism. Who's going to the higher kingdom?

I'm glad you found your peace Martain, and maybe that's the best for you, but I'm not seeing yet that the church is the best for everybody. Are all the other Christians not going to the Celestial kingdom?

[Anddenex]

Would you like to tell me how you know the church is true? I'd like specific examples please.

I know the Church is true by the power of the Holy Spirit. I know that when I pray the Lord answers prayers, and has answered many of mine.

I know that miracles have not ceased and they continue today. I know that by the power of the priesthood that these miracles are accomplished.

I know the scriptures provide insight to the mind and will of God, as I have heard his voice from time to time when I read and the Lord teaches me through the power of the Holy Spirit.

I know that when I fast the Lord has honored my fast.

Instead of asking people to share "specific examples," some of which are too sacred to share in an open forum. A person (if LDS as your profile suggests) should seek out their own personal experiences as their own.

[angrivated]

I know the Church is true by the power of the Holy Spirit. I know that when I pray the Lord answers prayers, and has answered many of mine.

I heard a non-Mormon Christian say once that he knew his denomination was true by the power of the Holy Spirit. Does that mean Mormonism is not true? Am I supposed to believe you or him? What prayers of yours has the Lord answered, and which ones hasn't He? Did the Spirit give you any clue why He didn't answer some?

I know that miracles have not ceased and they continue today. I know that by the power of the priesthood that these miracles are accomplished.

Describe to me the miracle you have experienced. Tell me how you know that these miracles are accomplished by the power of the priesthood.

I know the scriptures provide insight to the mind and will of God, as I have heard his voice from time to time when I read and the Lord teaches me through the power of the Holy Spirit.

What does His voice sound like? What did it say? I imagine if you've heard the voice of God you would remember what it sounded like and what He said.

I know that when I fast the Lord has honored my fast.

How do you know the Lord honored your fast? What does that mean exactly?

Instead of asking people to share "specific examples," some of which are too sacred to share in an open forum. A person (if LDS as your profile suggests) should seek out their own personal experiences as their own.

I've heard plenty of examples, even ones you might consider sacred. I haven't heard one from you yet. Please share the ones you don't consider too sacred to share in an open forum. I'm curious what you define as sacred as well. I've sought my own personal experiences and the Holy Spirit (or maybe it was just random chance) showed me contradictions to the church being true. So I am asking you how you know that it's true.

[Anddenex]

I heard a non-Mormon Christian say once that he knew his denomination was true by the power of the Holy Spirit. Does that mean Mormonism is not true?

No.

Am I supposed to believe you or him?

Neither. A person is to seek an individual witness from God himself, and obey that witness. In the end, how we have sought after God ourselves, will determine our eventual and final state.

The Lord has placed upon us all an individual responsibility to seek him out. How you seek him out will determine what you eventually understand and know for yourself.

What prayers of yours has the Lord answered, and which ones hasn't He? Did the Spirit give you any clue why He didn't answer some?

Plenty. Other prayers, as others, I do not yet understand why some are answer so easily and why some are not. One day I will have a fullness of knowledge and I will understand. I have also understood that I thank God for unanswered prayers also. I thank God he did not answer my prayer in softening the heart of the first woman I dated, after mission, to marry me, and other women. As a result, I finally met my wife, and couldn't have asked for a better answer to my many prayers...and other spiritual experiences resulting me to be able to meet my beloved.

Describe to me the miracle you have experienced. Tell me how you know that these miracles are accomplished by the power of the priesthood.

No. To personal of an experience to share with an individual who has shown he doesn't have much respect for spiritual experience (e.g. "silly ritual"), and to personal to share on an open forum.

They are completed in the same manner, by the priesthood, as the Lord and his apostles and prophets have accomplished since Adam on down to President Thomas S. Monson. I would encourage you to read the biography of President Thomas S. Monson. I would encourage you to read all of the books he has written.

I know they were accomplished by the power of the priesthood.

What does His voice sound like?

How does any voice sound like? -- like a voice. The Lord can either answer through pure intelligence which enters your thoughts, or through an audible voice. How does your father's voice sound when you speak with him and he answers back? Why would our Heavenly Father's voice be any different. Not to hard to grasp.

What did it say? I imagine if you've heard the voice of God you would remember what it sounded like and what He said.

Yes, indeed, I know when he spoke, and I know it word for word. Again, too personal of an experience to share on an open forum.

How do you know the Lord honored your fast? What does that mean exactly?

Great question. How do you know when you have asked somebody a question or for some help and you know the help has been received?

No different.

I've heard plenty of examples, even ones you might consider sacred. I haven't heard one from you yet. Please share the ones you don't consider too sacred to share in an open forum. I'm curious what you define as sacred as well. I've sought my own personal experiences and the Holy Spirit (or maybe it was just random chance) showed me contradictions to the church being true. So I am asking you how you know that it's true.

That's wonderful, I am glad you have heard many examples, but unfortunately I have none I am willing to share in this open forum.

That is wonderful you have sought personal experience and the Holy Spirit. Contradictions? Contradictions is an interesting term. When the pharisees were "face-to-face" with the Lord, they also "randomly" experienced contradictions regarding the Savior being the Son of God.

How do I know you truly have experienced "contradictions" or simply what "appears" as a contradiction to you?

I have already answered you how I know the Church is true, whether or not, you like or dislike my answer I am unable to avoid -- your personal choice.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Anddenex

[carlimac]

Just by virtue of the poster's name and the way he/she is picking apart every faithful answer, I think I'll pass on this question.

[Backroads]

Noticed he was already banned after 8 posts. That didn't take long.

[annewandering]

This thread is such a good example of seeking miracles instead of faith. Faith does not come from miracles. Miracles are seen because of faith. It is so amazing that anyone can live in this world and not see miracles every single day. We need to open our eyes and see the miracles God does in our lives and others instead of harping on why we dont see them with our eyes closed.

[Guest]

And with that great answer, I'm closing this thread since the OP won't be back.