Disfellowship - How It Works

[lilered]

I was excommunicated for Adultery. That happened 3 years ago. I was 32. Might be a while before im re-baptized. My wife on the other hand was disfellowshiped for pre-marital sex when she was 17. She was back after only one year. However, she lost her interest in the church and only gives it lip service now, which is a shame. Sometimes though, she is still moved by the spirit. She cried when i got my PB and didnt stop smiling during our Sealing, in the Temple.

Assuming you are desiring to and progressing towards rebaptism, I enourage and commend you for your efforts. Remember that God loves and wants all of us to return to him and partake of his glory no matter what we have done. :)

[Justice]

One time when I was serving in a certain calling, one of the members of our Ward was disfellowshipped for something he admitted he did. Part of his punishment was that he was not allowed to pay tithing. When I heard the judgment given I was very surprised.

After a couple years went by, he was restored to full fellowship. I asked him what the hardest part was of being disfellowshipped. He said not being able to pay tithing.

I mean no disrespect to any other church, but I can't help but wonder how many other churches would do such a thing? (rhetorical)

[bytor2112]

nobody has listed reasons for disfellowship.I am curious as I have never seen this discussed. How about:

1. Reasons for bishop's probation

2. Reasons for disfellowship

3. Reasons for excommunication

I know that some sins could cross lines between all three, but generally speaking. For example, committing adultery would usually fall under the excommunication category, but I have heard of temple recommend holders that committed adultery and were only disfellowshipped. I assume sins like pornography, adultery, abuse, committing felonies etc fall somewhere in those 3, but I am not sure where.

It really depends on your level of comitmit to the Church at the time of the transgressions and your evidence of sincere repentance. I was baptized as a teenager but was never active and fell away from church all together after a few weeks. I didn't hold the Priesthood, etc. I have been active for over three years now ( I am 43 now) and hold a Temple reccomend. The years of absence were, shamefully loaded with many instances of serious transgressions......many. I did not recieve any form of discipline. No Disciplinary court or anything. My good friend is an SP and said that because I wasn't really a member of the church and most of these transgressions occured many years ago that confession was all that was necessary for my repentance. Level of understanding of Gospel priciples, commitmit level.....endowed or not, Priesthood holder or not and humble, repentant attitude of transgressor as well as elapsed time since the transgression all play a role in these situations. Bishops and Stake Presidents are guided by the Holy Ghost and the Church Handbook of Instructions and try to determine what will help the transgressor have a "mighty change of heart". Often times, this change has already occured and there isn't any need for formal discipline. In the end repentance is about change, a real change, a might change.... a turning away from sinful ways and turning toward the Savior.

Edited July 11, 2008 by bytor2112

[bytor2112]

One more thing.... the Church doesn't want to disfellowship or excommunicate and neither do Bishops and Sp's. They want to help save the soul of the transgressor. In the end much of the decision depends upon the the evidences of sincere repentance of the transgressor. Repentance is not just feeling sad, it is not just refraining from recommiting a past sin, it is not just confession. While it is all of these things and more, true repentance is becoming a person that would never have committed these sins to begin with.

[unixknight]

The differences between each category of disciplinary action are pretty much arbitrary. I'm sure there are general guidelines but when the Disciplinary Council convenes to decide what to do, they act by the inspiration from the Lord. Sometimes a lesser transgression is punished more severely than someone else who does something more severe but is given a more merciful punishment. I think there are a LOT of factors that go into it and the attitude of the member is probably the biggest. Somebody who walks into that DC with a chip on their shoulder is much more likely, I'd think, to be excommunicated than somebody who is contrite and humble.

[tammyi]

wow don't know they did that. but I can see why. Its for all the right reasons. :)

[MichaelPAGuy]

Why would the church go through all the hassle of excommunicating someone who is inactive?

[mountainrider]

Why would the church go through all the hassle of excommunicating someone who is inactive?

I am a big fan of going through and cleaning out ward lists. That may sound harsh, but here is why. Every 3-5 years, you have a new "administration" in a ward. New bishop, usually new counselors, ward council members get changed, ward mission leader gets changed blah blah blah. Part of the ward's and ward leadership's job is reactivation. There are many people in every ward who DO NOT want anything, and I mean nothing, to do with the church, but have not gone through the hassle of writing a letter to the bishop to get their names removed. So, you get Joe Mission Leader that wants to conquer the ward list and reactivate all the inactives and starts visiting and calling, not knowing anything about the person other than a name on a list. Well, come to find out, Mr. Mission Leader gets an earful from the hostile ward members of the church who tells them to stop visiting/calling/contacting/"harassing" them. So, he does, until the next "administration" comes in. Then the cycle happens all over again. Countless hours are wasted visiting the same hostile people that will most likely never change. Many of these hostile people have probably done "excommunicatable" sins in their lives and in my opinion, the church should go through the process to get them off the books. I know there are eternal consequences and nobody likes to see a ward list shrink, but I am all about efficiency and not wasting time. I have little time as it is that I must balance between wife, little kids, church calling, work and everything in between and the last thing I want to be doing is trying to contact people who have asked to NOT be contacted over and over and over again.

[miztrniceguy]

there should be notes about who does not want to be contacted. if it is that big of a problem they would do the paperwork. some people don't remove their names to hedge their bets.

[lilered]

It seems to me that one of our obligations as church members is the welfare of our ward members. Our Visting and Home Teachers programs bear this out. Both these programs require us to contact those assigned to us by our leaders on an ongoing basis to check on their welfare and show concern.

Realizing that there are members in every ward that do not want any contact and do get upset when they are contacted then in reality we have a standoff between those who are trying to do their duty and fulfill their responsiblity and those who do not wish to be contacted.

We all can tell horror stories concerning those who get upset as well as the other side where as the right folks were able to reactivate a less active member or family.

It seems to me that unless those indiduals who do not wish to receive any contact, are willing to come forth and take responsiblity for their decision by filling out a small amount of paperwork requesting their membership be removed, then it is still a Home and Visiting Teachers obligation to contact them and fulfill their assignment, realizing that there will be those who will continue to get upset and/or mad.

That is why it is important for these type of situations to best be handled personally with the ward leadership as they develop. IMHO

[bytor2112]

I was one of those inactives that the "right" person helped find their way back. As a result, My two sons were baptized, I recieved the Priesthood, my family and I were sealed in the Orlando Temple and I baptized my mother and grandmother. I was inactive and didn't consider myself a member of the church other than the fact that I was baptized as a teenager. I "became" a member after 21 years of being away..........from the Lord.

[jobihu]

While Disfellowshipped, or Ex'd Can you bare your testimony in sacrament? Or is that considered like speaking or what not? A question i have had for a long time.

[Guest Alana]

Thinking back to my disiplinary council and I can't remember if I was disfellowshiped or just put on a sort of probation. I don't think it went on my record, but I wasn't able to take the sacrament or offer prayers in church. I was once asked to give a prayer before class and I had to say no, boy did she looked shocked! The bishop explained to me that teachers and other members are supposed to ask others to give prayers in semi-private, as in before the class starts and everyone is listening. Sometimes they don't follow that guideline, but I was grateful I wasn't asked when everyone was waiting.

[Palerider]

While Disfellowshipped, or Ex'd Can you bare your testimony in sacrament? Or is that considered like speaking or what not? A question i have had for a long time.

if you are ex'd...no you cannot share your testimony....if you are disfellowshipped....its up to your Bishop and the instructions he gives you....each case is different.

[Charlyc]

"

1. Reasons for disfellowship

2. What is taken away from the disfellowshipped person

3. What part does the bishop play in getting the blessings restored?

4. What is the duration of time... can it go into years???

"

It may be late for this but just in case:

1. Many, from violence to immorality but usually not the serious type like child abuse. Murder is mandatory excommunication, but depending on case just about all else could result in disfellowship if enough time has passed and the member is truly regretful and shows remorse.

2.Can't speak in church, take sacrament, hold callings but doesn't loose membership so doesn't need to be rebaptized when it over. On end of disfellowshipment a verbal notice is given during disciplinary council and letter informing him/her should be sent. Also doesn't loose temple blessing so still wears garments and doesn't need restoration of blessings at end obviously.

3. Critical part. He must prepare letter for 1st presidency giving faith that the member is ready to have blessings restored. If he is doubtful of it then it isn't granted. 'Blessing restored' is term used for excommunicated who loose temple blessings and need to apply to 1st Presidency for restoration but if you mean for end of disfellowshipment? then Bishop also plays critical roll in followup on the person and passing on to stake president that they are ready to end the period of disfellowshipment, usually done verbally.

4. Duration is usually 1 year although many are just 6 months. Some are renewed for another year to avoid excommunicating member, especially if a young adult but it all depends on stake president or bishop when its handed out.

Also disfellowshipment can only occur as part of formal church discipline where a disciplinary council is held either by bishopric or stake high council, depending on case. Women almost always done by bishopric and MelqPriesthood usually done by stake although Bishopric can disfellowship an elder/HP; bishops can't excommunicate elders/HP though.

[Charlyc]

I may be mistaken, but during Disfellowship, one still has the "Gift of the Holy Ghost"

however when one is excommunicated, they do not.

Tue. One is 'suspended' as member and doesn't have all the membership rights and privileges but doesn't loose membership nor gift of HG.

Disfellowshipment is more of a 'see what can happen if you don't change' kind of thing, while excommunication is a dead end or the end unless there is full repentance and one fights to get back in, sometimes that fight can be very long and difficult.

[Charlyc]

nobody has listed reasons for disfellowship.I am curious as I have never seen this discussed. How about:

1. Reasons for bishop's probation

2. Reasons for disfellowship

3. Reasons for excommunication

I know that some sins could cross lines between all three, but generally speaking. For example, committing adultery would usually fall under the excommunication category, but I have heard of temple recommend holders that committed adultery and were only disfellowshipped. I assume sins like pornography, adultery, abuse, committing felonies etc fall somewhere in those 3, but I am not sure where.

"I think it depends on the Bishop. I"

No, it depends on the stake president. Bishops need to inform him of everything before SP authorizes a formal disciplinary process. Only exception is if it is 'Informal' discipline such as the Bishop telling someone to not take the sacrament for 3 month but the above are example of outcomes from formal disciplinary proceedures. Real distinction is between formal and informal discipline. But then the outcome can vary. Specifically handbook has that excommunication is mandatory for murder and almost always for incest. Then 'usually' for adultery, especially if the member is endowed. After that any result is possible depending on A) time since sin committed and B) persons callings and status in the church C) amount of remorse and repentance shown. Typically a member who knows the doctrine and is experienced enough will be excommunicated for adultery, abortion or homosexuality. If its a new member or young person then usually its disfellowshipment. But it really depends on the entire case and what the SP or Bishop think since they are the only 'Judges' in the church. If its porn then usually its informal bishops probation. Felonies: one can take the result of the criminal trial to do a council and usually excommunication is the result since the good name of the church is put in jeopardy.

[talisyn]

In regards to homosexuality, isn't that for unchastity and not for mere ss attraction?

[lilered]

I may be mistaken, but I am under the understanding that if the individual holds the Aaronic Priesthood, the local Bishop governs, thus a Bishops court is convened if necessary. If the serious violation ocurrs with a member holding the higher priesthood or Melchizadek, the the Stake President has authority and or a Stake court may be convened.

[Charlyc]

In regards to homosexuality, isn't that for unchastity and not for mere ss attraction?

Yes certainly.One must commit an 'act' for it to go before a council, brethren have spoken about this -although i don't deny that an overzealous Bishop may do one for SSA since there are all sorts out there in the church (bishops that is). but Bishop needs approval from Stake president first to hold one so I doubt it, unless both are extremely homophobic.

I may be mistaken, but I am under the understanding that if the individual holds the Aaronic Priesthood, the local Bishop governs, thus a Bishops court is convened if necessary. If the serious violation ocurrs with a member holding the higher priesthood or Melchizadek, the the Stake President has authority and or a Stake court may be convened.

Not necessarily. Handbook clearly states that a stake disciplinary council is convened only when there is a likelihood that a Melquisedec priesthood holder will be excommunicated (but after holding it the outcome may be any though after discussion, consideration etc). Also all formal discipline procedures, bishopric/branch and stake, must be authorized by stake president himself for it to go ahead. Handbook is also clear that a Bishop can hold formal discipline for a MelqPH holder (after approval from SP) but he can't excommunicate him. for example a 19 year old elder would, typically, be dealt with by a bishopric council with only disfellowshipment or probation the outcome since no one wants to see a young man excommunicated for being to 'friendly' with a girlfriend only (and this probably after informal discipline is attempted with restriction of sacrament etc)

Edited May 14, 2009 by Charlyc

[Aesa]

"...asked to pray and she, a little embarrassingly, told the teacher she couldn't. "

What?

A dis-fellowshipped member is not allowed to pray to god?

[Charlyc]

Re: A dis-fellowshipped member is not allowed to pray to god?

In public and on behalf of other people. Private pray though is encouraged.

[Aesa]

Why aren't they allowed to pray for others?

[Palerider]

Why aren't they allowed to pray for others?

they can pray for others......they may not be able to pray at a Church service or in a class room.

[Aesa]

Why? Is there any scriptural validation for that?