The Fallout

[rosie321]

****Warning ****

I'd like to discuss, vent and hear others thoughts on a matter. This topic may rile a few feathers and I may unknowingly say things or use terminology that might offend some. I have some strong feelings regarding this and so may come across a little hard at moments.

I'd like to discuss and vent on the topic about Imus's comments and firings. There are some good discussable related issues here I think. I will not repeat what he said because I do not think it was an appropriate thing to say. Nor do I think it needs to be repeated in any follow up posts. If you haven't heard what was said its probably the better for you. I personally have never liked to listen to his shocking stuff which to me was valueless drivel, played in the background at previous employments.

That having been said I must say I am appalled, although not in the least surprised by the fallout and what has happened.

As before I think what Imus said was inappropriate and uncalled for. But then again I question where did he learn the terms from? Who else uses them? Why is he singled out? Is it just because he is a white man saying it?

Many of the black leaders out there are worse to me than the pharisees and saducees. Waiting on whom they can prey upon. They stand waiting for someone to do something wrong for their profit. What are they doing to stop the promotion of the filth as they call it within their own ranks and communities? How have they really helped the people they serve? They want this man fired but what are they doing to stop the black artists who are still profiting off of worse trash? I have heard nothing of them going after the black artists or the stations who support black artists that use such language. In fact many times its just accepted as a cultural thing. Why, probably because there is no profit from stopping it within their own ranks. But the word discrimination has a high price tag so they relentlessly pursue anything they can tag with that name. If it is now agreed upon that this language is inappropriate, then it should not be tolerated within their own culture. It shouldn't have been tolerated at all as a cultural expression by true leaders. It is unacceptable that such expression has been allowed to become so popular. They need to remove the mote out of their own eye first as scriptures indicate. I'd think they'd be ashamed to go on the attack until they've addressed the problems in their own community. I feel bad for my wonderful and decent friends who are represented by such poor examples of leadership. It hurts them and diminishes their goodness.

Its too bad there aren't more outspoken black leaders like Bill Cosby and others who have done much to try and better the lives of others. There is an outstanding article that was sent to me. Its from Newsday http://www.newsday.com -Its More Than Just Imus by Shaun Powell, a black columnist. I think he articulates these thoughts quite well. I'm glad he had the courage to stand up also and say what needs to be said. If this article is indicative of his daily moral standing he gets my kudos and full support.

The Rutgers team fell down on the opportunity they had to show their true character, in my opinion. They could have better used this opportunity to really lead the way. I really question their motives behind their actions (makes me think of the daughter of Herod who asked for John the Baptists head). What Imus said was uncalled for but it did not have to be drawn out into this three ring circus. Imus is a shock jock who has for many years made deplorable comments. For reasons uncomprehensible to me that is why people listen to him. They enjoy hearing the outrageous. While he did use words against them I really doubt he meant anything personal by it as they allude. Much like the late night comedians jokes about people mean. So I don't totally understand why they came off so harshly against him and tried to resolve it so agressively in public ways. They might have been handling it the same way the church handles anti's walk away or taking a meeting privately aside first? Could they not have worked with Imus and maybe even turned him as their advocate? Instead all I can envision coming from this situation is greater racial divide and hostilities. While his words were offensive I'm not sure to what degree he really damaged them. I'd think more damage has come to them since their aggressive public fight and their usage in the agenda of others. Now everyone knows the filth language that was used By Imus. The words are now on the tips of many peoples tongues who never even heard of those words, listened to Imus' program or would have even thought anything bad about those women. Now they will be forever pictured by those words. If this was handled differently the damage might have been more limited and with more good coming out of it.

Hopefully their actions were just all made in the immediacy of events and they will demonstrate true character and leadership skills in the future to help within their own community and show consistancy in their views.

This matter concerns me also because of the freedom of speech and the politcal correct movement. If this is supposed to ease racial tensions, I cannot see how it can with such hippocritical standards. If you are from one culture or race you can say whatever but if someone else says it is wrong and dooms you to personal destruction? Say the LDS were to make fun of our prophets and disregard the words of scriptures how can not expect others to do the same who have no clue about the value of the church, what it is about or what they are doing?

People chose to keep Imus where he was at over the years. His behaviour was accepted. He would not have been kept on so long without a big listening audience. His comment was bad but then his audience would have probably reigned him in especially after a suspension to avoid the threat of permanent removal. Its too bad in two weeks he couldn't have been given the chance to go back on and to maybe turn things around or let the audience kick him out. With all the media hoopla it will not be easily forgotton that he made a big mistake. He might do more good back at the job. Let the fans either pull him out or keep him in. I worry about the political correct machine putting pressure on the stations and sponsors to fire him. Give his audience a chance to speak.

I also worry about the politicians involvement in trying to monitor and control the freedom of speech and what is listened to. Are we really free if we cannot choose? Let the people speak! Not just the few afraid of being destroyed by the politically correct machines.

If what Imus said is now accepted as wrong by the majority and not allowable on air, then our stations need to hear about it and all artists that use any similar language in any of their works, regardless of background should be removed immediately. It should also be made clear what can and can't be said so there is no misunderstanding as to what is appropriate and not. Its sickening in some cases the way harassment and discrimination laws are written that someone can take the words of someone in ways that they never intended and destroy someone for it.

Just had to get that off my chest...

[Blessed]

Those words never should have been used to describe anyone at anytime. Period. Imus was wrong and imo he deserves to be fired. Period.

[JcDean78]

Imus is an idiot. He always has been. The funny part is he is also a Liberal and this is one of the first times I have seen them EVER go after one of their own in such a rabbid way.

Now what he did was small with much much worse being said on a daily basis by others including stand ups like Chris Rock, Dave Chapelle, and the entire R&B culture. In fact I took Imus' comment as more a joke about that culture than anything to do with those ladies at Rutgers.

Why the double standard? It is either perfectly ok to say what he said or it is not. If not then we better start seeing some outrage for every single rap artist and black stand up comic.

Should Imus have lost his job? Yes, but not over this... but rather because he has no class and is a total idiot.

[jimradictis]

This is one of those topics which leaves me thinking about McCarthyism. If I defend him, I am likely to be instantly thought of as a racist. I feel bad for the guy, he made a stupid remark without thinking about it and now will probably live out the rest of his life being seen as a racist. It is evident that at the time his goal was not to be racist. A public apology and recognition on his part that the comment was hurtful towards the black community should have been enough.

[shanstress70]

I agree with you, Rosie, on many points. What he said was stupid and offensive. However, he's been saying stuff like this from Day 1, making fun of so many different types of people. For example, he's been known to make fun of Jews in the past. But that didn't get him in trouble. Why?

I'm not sure why it's OK to make fun of some and not others. I see this in so many areas.

One thing I've always wondered is why it's OK to make fun of Mormons, but not OK to make fun of Muslims. It's not fair for some groups of people to be 'fussed over' and others not.

If it was the right move for Imus to be fired over this comment, he should've been fired a long time ago for others.

[sixpacktr]

I too am outraged at the reaction to this, to be honest with you. I have listened once or twice to Imus. I don't like him, just like I don't like Howard Stern. But he wasn't fired for being obnoxious--no, he was fired for making derogatory statements towards blacks. That was his sin. If he had taken off on some fat, white, Christian male he would have been heralded as insightful. But he made fun of the wrong race. Period. And until the blacks wake up and smell the postum and get rid of such race baiters as the Rev Al and Jesse Jackson they will never be taken seriously on anything. Both of these "gentlemen, and I use that term loosely" (to quote Don Henley from "Garden of Eden") are worse by far. The "Rev" Al is responsible for the whole Tawanda Braunley affair in NYC, as well as stirring up race riots just to make sure he is living high on the hog. And Jesse? Never met a photo op he didn't like, and puts out such vitriol that it is amazing. Where are their apologies? Haven't seen them rushing to the aid of the 3 Duke LaCrosse players, or the school for that matter (the coach resigned, the school cancelled the season, etc, per news reports) to talk about the demonization of 3 innocent men. Why? Because the 3 Duke guys are white. End of story. Got what they had coming to them, because subconsciously they wanted to do it because they are racist anyway.

Think I'm exaggerating? I am coming from the Atlanta area where this is a real problem. Every time something happens that a spin can be put to it relating to race, it is. And if you are a white male, you are guilty until proven innocent.

Should Imus have been fired? I don't know, perhaps. But I was outraged that the reason he was wasn't because he is an idiot anyway, but because he offended blacks. And so CBS and MSNBC, those bastions of PC, caved like the gutless wonders they are. Just like the Republicans in Congress. No backbone, nothing. Always afraid they might offend someone. And that is just sad. And frightening for this country...

[rosie321]

Those words never should have been used to describe anyone at anytime. Period. Imus was wrong and imo he deserves to be fired. Period.

I also feel those words serve no good purpose and should not be used either. To me it reveals a lot about the character using it. I could never see what good anyone could find in such trash talk. I feel being fired as he was from this incident was extreme with out another chance or clarification as to what was appropriate standards for his shock job.

I have to ask where is the reproach against all the other people who use these words daily and for whom it is considered a cultural norm? Why has that been accepted as alright up until Imus' comments? Why has nothing been done before now to stop the usage of those words? Thats what angers me. The fact that its being done for personal gain and other political agenda then that people are genuinely upset by what he said.

Others who did nothing about this problem before should not stand up and profit from it now or use it to make themselves look good. It seems like the most outspoken people now on this issue, who are using this situation for their own gain bear some responsibility in the matter and should not be viewed as pioneers of change now. I don't think they should be able to dictate morality to the rest of us or try and control what is alright to say and not. They have demonstrated no responsibility up until now.

The words were said on a trash talk show by a shock jock who was saying it. This should be taken into account. People understand he is outrageous and most likely would have forgotton it in a couple of days so in the longterm would have probably not really impacted the girls. While highly inappropriate and uncalled for he was using Hip hop words that others use all the time. He's a shock jock! Why should he be completely destroyed without some warning beforehand? He was doing what people expected him to do. Say outrageous stuff based on culture that his listeners would find funny. Comedians sometimes say some pretty outrageous things (though without the heavy language usually) What might have been forgotton will probably never be forgotten in the listeners minds now. While they might have been swayed to positive change do you really think they will now? They will just feel like their favorite shock jock got unrighteously booted. The team will forever be known by that horrible name to the listeners. Those who remained silent as this culture grew and did not speak out should bear accountability too in my opinion.

What was said to these women was inappropriate and wrong. But they can survive this "traumatic" experience and they could have turned it out for the good. So far their actions do not seem to be doing this. Hopefully they still will. I've had some horrible things said and done to me that effected me worse personally then these woman got from Imus and have survived. It hurt and cost a lot. But I learned some important lessons. There are people who will always be against. Some may very well try and hurt you and not just by some stupid idiotic remarks. Thank goodness for the church leadership who though really appalled by the things done encouraged positive ways of dealing with it and the offenders to ensure the best outcome. Though the offenders couldn't take back the damages they created and there weren't personal apologies given. I saw attitudes change some and the offenders were able to see a little that what they were doing was wrong. There is no doubt the evil in their heart when they did their actions. But it was good to see a positive change in their heart however much.

If this had been handled differently it might have done more good overall. Instead it just inflames contentions and divisions. They made a huge issue out of something that had not been presented as evil before but as an acceptable norm in certain circles. Therefore I don't think that it demands the extreme punishment that was given and the destruction of a mans life who is doing nothing differently than he has done for the last 3 decades

Btw prayers to the NJ governer and his family.

Just noticed all the responses. Appreciate your expressed views on this matter

[the_jason]

I do not condone racism and, therefore, do not agree with Imus.

Having said that, is this really worse than Rush Limbaugh saying Michael J. Fox is faking his illness? Is attacking a person's physical attributes worse than attacking a physical disability? Neither the basketball team nor Fox have any control over who they are.

I do not tolerate racism, but I think it's too often used as a crutch, as a way to gain leverage with a person or persons, or simply a way to get attention.

If Imus was wrong then Limbaugh was equally wrong.

[Blessed]

I do not condone racism and, therefore, do not agree with Imus.

Having said that, is this really worse than Rush Limbaugh saying Michael J. Fox is faking his illness? Is attacking a person's physical attributes worse than attacking a physical disability? Neither the basketball team nor Fox have any control over who they are.

I do not tolerate racism, but I think it's too often used as a crutch, as a way to gain leverage with a person or persons, or simply a way to get attention.

If Imus was wrong then Limbaugh was equally wrong.

I agree with you, the jason. There comes a moment when enough is enough. If Imus had been bad mouthing people throughout his career then he got a harsh wake up call that you can't do it. I don't feel sorry for him that he lost his job... I mean, really, how much money was he making a year? A lot more than I do. And don't even get me started on Limbaugh... argh!

This will serve notice to all "shock" jocks! (as it should)

[rosie321]

I do not condone racism and, therefore, do not agree with Imus.

Having said that, is this really worse than Rush Limbaugh saying Michael J. Fox is faking his illness? Is attacking a person's physical attributes worse than attacking a physical disability? Neither the basketball team nor Fox have any control over who they are.

I do not tolerate racism, but I think it's too often used as a crutch, as a way to gain leverage with a person or persons, or simply a way to get attention.

If Imus was wrong then Limbaugh was equally wrong.

In some ways I would have to say Limbaugh was not equally wrong but in some ways more wrong than Imus' remarks.

The setting of Rush's show is different than Imus'. He is the Center of Excellence or whatever. He's supposed to be more serious. So I would expect more of him. Imus is a shock jock who has always fed off trash talk. Its no surprise he'd make a comment like what he made. I would not take Imus as serious as Rush and would be listening to them, if I was interested for different reasons..

What Rush said was just plain stupid. There's no excuse. But on the other hand Michael J Fox did come out strongly and made his disability a critical issue in that instance. Rush was addressing that. Michael J Fox made his disability a critical issue and shouldn't be surprised when someone makes a comment on it. In the long run it wound out helping Michael J Fox and the ones he was supporting because people reacted negatively to Rush's comments.

[rosie321]

Racist remarks show the character whose speaking them. Its the responsibility of those who listen to it to not encourage it. Rush, Imus and others are on because they are being listened to and have large audiences. I'd rather see people freely choose, on their own not to listen to this stuff and turn it off. The ratings will speak and these guys will be gone. Democratically by the majority. Not the way this was seemingly done.

If the leaders were wise they would have worked on educating people and being unprejudiced themselves. By not giving Imus a chance to return and have listeners reject him themself they've done more harm than good. They're trying to control people instead of educating people and letting them choose for themselves.

I'm a person who likes to know who's against me and would rather their honesty then having people afraid to speak their mind while growing a seething animosity. Get things out on the table! Sure Imus might be off the air and its probably a good thing but what are all his listeners thinking now? What might they resort to now that they feel attacked and that he was unjustly removed?

[JcDean78]

I do not condone racism and, therefore, do not agree with Imus.

Having said that, is this really worse than Rush Limbaugh saying Michael J. Fox is faking his illness? Is attacking a person's physical attributes worse than attacking a physical disability? Neither the basketball team nor Fox have any control over who they are.

I do not tolerate racism, but I think it's too often used as a crutch, as a way to gain leverage with a person or persons, or simply a way to get attention.

If Imus was wrong then Limbaugh was equally wrong.

There was a HUGE difference as Rush was not making a joke about Mr Fox but rather asking a serious question about whether or not he had not taken his medication so his symptoms would be more obvious which Mr. Fox HAD done in the past and admitted.

Rush said nothing wrong and everyone in the media should have been asking the same question.

[sixpacktr]

JCDean,

Exactly right. I like Mike (sorry) even though he is a lib. But he injected himself into a political fight and has to take the heat then. And he had not taken his meds before to prove the point. What Imus did was attack some girls that played bball. They had done nothing other than play a sport.

But again, Imus is an idiot, but his sacking was spineless because it was done for the wrong reason. Rush is not a "shock jock". He makes too much sense in an extremely PC world. Nowhere is it written that we have a right to not be offended. The best thing would have been for the coach of team to simply say "he has his opinion, I don't agree, move on." But when you get the publicity "hos" involved, now you have offended people, and you can't do that.

What a sad outlook on life. It is no wonder, with leaders like that, that we have created an entire class of people looking for any excuse to be offended...

[JcDean78]

I like Mike too. Really enjoyed most of his movies and TV. But politically I am polar opposite of him.

[the_jason]

There was a HUGE difference as Rush was not making a joke about Mr Fox but rather asking a serious question about whether or not he had not taken his medication so his symptoms would be more obvious which Mr. Fox HAD done in the past and admitted.

Actually, Fox said his medication made the shaking worse.

Exactly right. I like Mike (sorry) even though he is a lib. But he injected himself into a political fight and has to take the heat then.

So I guess two wrongs make a right, then. I have no problem if Limbaugh attacks Fox's politcal views. I don't agree with many of them myself. He didn't though. He went below the belt and attacked his disability. His political views should be seperated from the disability. Is there no such thing as compassion anymore?

[JcDean78]

He did not attack his disability at all. I just do not see how you get to that point. Fox had done exactly what Rush had said, so how is that attacking his disability? Are we not supposed to point that out? Is anyone with a disability now off limits? I have a hearling loss so anybody who disagrees with me or accuses me of acting like I dont hear them (which I do sometimes lol), should be condemed?

[sixpacktr]

I guess I see this differently. If Mike had gone on the air and said that there is GW and Rush said that he was a freak because of his disease then that is below the belt. However, Mike was arguing for stem cell research and USING his illness to make the point. To expect to get a pass because of that illness then when you put it into play (so to speak) is not realistic. There are going to be those that are going to question whether you then tried to raise the debate from logical to emotional because you play on people's feelings.

And that is what Rush did.

[rosie321]

<div class='quotemain'>

There was a HUGE difference as Rush was not making a joke about Mr Fox but rather asking a serious question about whether or not he had not taken his medication so his symptoms would be more obvious which Mr. Fox HAD done in the past and admitted.

Actually, Fox said his medication made the shaking worse.

Exactly right. I like Mike (sorry) even though he is a lib. But he injected himself into a political fight and has to take the heat then.

So I guess two wrongs make a right, then. I have no problem if Limbaugh attacks Fox's politcal views. I don't agree with many of them myself. He didn't though. He went below the belt and attacked his disability. His political views should be seperated from the disability. Is there no such thing as compassion anymore?

I can't help but think Rush went overboard.

Normally I would agree that political views should be seperated from the disability. But in this case Michael J Fox got involved in the political ring over disability issues/stem stell research using his disability as a basis not on anything else. Therefore he can't be totally suprised if someone calls him on it. Its like a female beating the tar out of a guy and then saying you can't touch me I'm a woman. The woman deserves what she gets when she starts it in my opinion. There should be some ability to redress on the other party. Rush has always been one to counteract inconsistancies. In the political fight all holes barred.

[the_jason]

To expect to get a pass because of that illness then when you put it into play (so to speak) is not realistic.

What exactly was he trying to get a "pass" on. Yes, he used his disability to make a point. What's wrong with educating people? If people are to support stem cell research then they should be allowed to know how that research will be used. Michael J. Fox tried to do that. He did not say "I have Parkinson's, so please pay attention to me." He was educating people on how the research can help.

This topic of this thread is racism, though. Let's talk about how Rush Limbaugh made a racial comment about Donovan McNabb when Rush was on Monday Night Football. Did Donovan bring this on himself too? You seem like you are pro-Rush instead of pro-righteousness.

[JcDean78]

What was the McNabb comment? The fact that he said McNabb was over rated? That is true. The man is very very over rated.

Even though Black Americans have a huge % jobs in sports, they did not at QB or coaching until recently. So there was a big push, affirmative action style to bring on a change. Support it or not, that is what went down. Even my school of UVA recently did the race hunt when looking for a new basketball coach. They ONLY looked at Black coaches and made a huge issue out of it.

Race is an issue today only because it is pushed on us daily! Affirmative action, race prefernces, and the general racist behavior exibited from people like Sharpton and Jackson keep it an issue.

Race should not be an issue, but unfortunatly there are too many people in this world who have a lot to lose to let racism die.

If I were black I would be offended at race programs and special treatment. It is demeaning and offensive. I would always second guess my job, education, and life knowing that people looked at me as less than able to make it on my own without intervention by the government and programs.

Ok I just looked it up and Rush said McNabb was over rated and that the media hyped him because he was black.

Well that is the TRUTH! My gosh, that is the truth! Look at the mans stats! McNabb is an average QB. He is a nice guy and all but he is NOT one of the top QB's as he is made out to be.

The media hyping McNabb does a dis serive to all the other Black athletes who are great! Did Jordan need that kind of hype? How about Barry Sanders? Emmitt Smith? Tiger Woods? NO they did not and nobody debate their ability because not only are they the best, but their stats prove it.

[the_jason]

I agree that McNabb isn't the greatest QB. My point is why bring race into it at all? He could have simply said "McNabb is overrated" and left it at that, but he didn't. He had to bring race into it, which is insensitive.

[rosie321]

This topic of this thread is racism, though.

Racism was one of the issues , although there were other thoughts and issues in mind when starting this thread that could be discussed too. I don't think this issue is all race based that is one of the main reasons I started it. I think if you want to help discrimination of any kind you have to look at some of the other key issues in play here too. I feel more damage was created from the way things were handled than unifying people and working on ways of eliminating discrimination and racism. I highly question the firing of Imus and the motivations behind it. Epecially when, as expressed before the wording he used has been upheld by the leaders who now renounce it and its a popular acceptable art form. If anything it seems like reverse discrimination.

Its the good and decent people who suffer out of this.

[JcDean78]

Because his race was the factor into the hype. Here is a great article on the subject that covers a lot of facts.

http://www.slate.com/id/2089193/

BTW Racism is saying that one race is better than another. To simply not like another race would be bigotry. However in the case of NcNabb, Rush was the only person not being a racist.

[the_jason]

Because his race was the factor into the hype.

Then those who started the hype should be blamed too. It's unfair. Rush did not need to add fuel to the fire though. He seems to like to pick on anyone who's not like himself. Maybe I should call his show and rag on fat people.

[JcDean78]

I am just going to have to agree to disagree. And I am not a Rush fan either. Though we share many of the same political views, I just do not care to listen to him as most of the time, his show is just the GOP talking points which offers nothing interesting or insightful... more like preaching to the chior. I like Boortz and ORielly a lot better.