What is Love?

[John11111]

Love is taking my wife shopping when I dont want to,

its giving her a backrub after a hardday even tho all I want is to go to sleep,

its getting up early and getting the kids off to school so she can sleep in,

its taking the time to plan out and go out on dates,

its coming home from work and cleaning up or doing the dishes,

its something you chose to do,

its serving the physical/emotional needs of another without any expectation of repayment.

Edited August 31, 2013 by John11111

[McLainDow]

Love is sacrifice.

[Dravin]

Love is sacrifice.

That does seem to be a recurring theme in the responses being given even if the phrasing varies a bit.

[Lakumi]

Love is sacrifice.

and singlehood is freedom

rather freedom then sacrifice

I donno if its because I have never loved anyone, (like really been in love) but everyone I ever talked to makes relationships sound like the worst decision one can make... I donno if people are just unhappy or its one giant joke...

I wasn't happy.

I'm happier now.

[McLainDow]

That does seem to be a recurring theme in the responses being given even if the phrasing varies a bit.

I believe its a quote from Emily Dickinson or part of quote. I believe the quote is "What is love? Love is sacrifice." I probably should have sighted my source in my original post :)

[MrShorty]

Love is sacrifice.

That does seem to be a recurring theme in the responses being given even if the phrasing varies a bit.

Sometimes I think the idea of love being sacrifice is a romantic notion, but I'm not sure it really holds up under scrutiny. Maybe it depends on how much of it is reciprocated, I don't know. Dr. Harley (His Need, Her Needs and other books) actually speaks rather strongly against self-sacrifice as a model for marriage. He explains that sacrifice (especially when it isn't reciprocated) is a recipe for resentment, frustration, and hatred and the self-sacrificing spouse eventually reaches a point where they decide they just cannot sacrifice without getting something in return.

Dr. Gottman in one of his books (and I started a thread to discuss this one) had a section called "how a little selfishness can be good for your marriage" where he talks about the same issue -- the spouse who is constantly sacrificing and never getting anything back from the relationship builds up resentment. He explains that it is sometimes important, maybe necessary, to work out skills for asking for things that you need from your spouse/relationship to avoid this kind of resentment.

As for the OP's question, I don't know if I have a simple answer. Some sacrifice is certainly a part of true love, but it cannot be the whole picture. Charity is certainly part of it, too, but I don't think it is a complete picture of true love.

In some ways, I think some of the best pictures of true love are multi-faceted.

[McLainDow]

My thought has personally always been that sacrifice is the ultimate manifestation of love (see John 3:16) We always here about Christ's atoning sacrifice as being the greatest manifestation of love, why? It is because it is the last and greatest sacrifice.

[MrShorty]

I don't doubt that Christ loves me more than any other person possibly could, and that the ultimate expression of that love is demonstrated by Him laying down His life for me. Of course, He did the same for you, and for every other person on this planet. So, while Christ's sacrifice is an excellent example of charity, it is interesting to me that his example of love is not exclusive. Almost all descriptions of romantic love involve some level of exclusivity.

I also don't doubt that in a long term relationship, there will come many occasions where the most loving thing a person can do is sacrifice their own needs/wants/desires for the other person. From what I have seen and read, sacrificing like this is not sustainable, especially if it turns out to be one sided. Long term self-sacrifice without some form of reciprocation will often turn into resentment and poison the relationship.

[Dravin]

In some ways, I think some of the best pictures of true love are multi-faceted.

I think that pretty much goes without saying. Any short description of an emotion, particularly one as simple as X is Y will fail at some resolution or tend towards being self-referential (e.g. love is charity).

[McLainDow]

The ideal of practicing "Love is sacrifice" in a romantic relationship would be to put the other persons needs ahead of your own. If both spouses do this this would to me be the ideal marriage.

[Quin]

I'm not fond of English as a language.... It's so VAGUE. (Language of diplomacy for a reason).

Sometimes, when I'm having difficulty with a concept in English, I jump languages and look at the way concepts are defined.

For "love" I go Greek (or Arabic & Japanese , but Greek is more straightforward):

Eros - Romantic Love / Lust

Amos - love between friends

Fillious - love between family members

Toss in the Japanese & one gets honor & respect & synergy & place

Toss in Arabic & one gets the meeting of mind & heart & action

Which all sort of swirls around in my head to get broken down in my personal definition of "love". I loooooooove he way Greek defines differing TYPES of love (I stead of stupid English where people have to specify... I love you but am not IN love with you, or I love you, man!, or I care for you, or blah blah blah.)

I already really like one of the most ***common sense*** books, ever.

The 5 love languages

- Physical touch

- Acts of Service

- Quality Time

- Gifts

- Words of affirmation

It breaks down the ways most people BOTH feel love and share love.

And is a face meet palm EASY BUTTON.

As an example: My friends N&D

For example, my friend N used to write little notes all the time for his spouse D. One of his ways of showing love was 'words of affirmation'. But hat WASN'T one of his spouse's ways. One of their ways was acts of service. Which wasn't on N's radar. So they had a lot of feeling unappreciated/unloved going on, even though BOTH were bending over backwards in their own minds. D would leave without writing a note, and would just blithely crumple up and toss notes left. N would see the dishes done and say 'Thanks' but feel completely nonplussed. Once they started using the other person's "primary language"? Vavavooooooom. Instant marriage jolt. But it took both of them SEEING this (ironically it was a party game, at a friend's baby shower) instead of just discounting ipthw other person as being ridiculous/ blind/ etc.

I get it.

I mean... I have friends who get all goo goo eyed when the vacuuming has been done, and I just CANNOT relate. In fact, it kind of makes me shudder a bit. But squash me in a bear hug, and I feel the same durn way they do with Dyson.

Most spouses share at least 1 language (how they related to begin with), but often miss the others completely (ESP if they did it on accident during courting... Like bringing gifts or texting a lot, or whatever... Because its "expected" but while it floats their partners boat, that tide just completely missed them. Huh? What tide? Ooooooooooh. You like it when I do x. Remember x. Remember x. What? X? What are you talking about?

Q

[MrShorty]

I think that pretty much goes without saying. Any short description of an emotion, particularly one as simple as X is Y will fail at some resolution or tend towards being self-referential (e.g. love is charity).

In some ways, maybe that was why I decided to jump in as the "devil's advocate", if you will -- to try to flush out some of the other words/descriptions we might use in describing (romantic) love.

Quin: I think of anything I have read (which probably isn't that much) Dr. Chapman's description (chapter 1 or 2 of The 5 Love Languages) of the temporary "in love experience" and deliberate, intentional love that characterizing long term relationship is one of the best I've read. Even if one decided not to buy into the rest of the 5 love languages, he is good just for the understanding that "true" love will have a deliberate, intentional, "I love you because I choose to love you" aspect.

[MrShorty]

Came across this definition of love while reading Fighting for Your Marriage by Markman, Stanley, and Blumberg:

"The best definition of love, beyond those offered by the poets, is provided by Robert Sternberg of Yale University, who says that love is one part intimacy, fun, and friendship; one part passion and romance; and one part commitment."

[Lakumi]

The ideal of practicing "Love is sacrifice" in a romantic relationship would be to put the other persons needs ahead of your own. If both spouses do this this would to me be the ideal marriage.

as the center of my own universe, I am not fit for the ideal marriage:lol:

[Guest]

Sometimes I think the idea of love being sacrifice is a romantic notion, but I'm not sure it really holds up under scrutiny. Maybe it depends on how much of it is reciprocated, I don't know. Dr. Harley (His Need, Her Needs and other books) actually speaks rather strongly against self-sacrifice as a model for marriage. He explains that sacrifice (especially when it isn't reciprocated) is a recipe for resentment, frustration, and hatred and the self-sacrificing spouse eventually reaches a point where they decide they just cannot sacrifice without getting something in return.

Dr. Gottman in one of his books (and I started a thread to discuss this one) had a section called "how a little selfishness can be good for your marriage" where he talks about the same issue -- the spouse who is constantly sacrificing and never getting anything back from the relationship builds up resentment. He explains that it is sometimes important, maybe necessary, to work out skills for asking for things that you need from your spouse/relationship to avoid this kind of resentment.

As for the OP's question, I don't know if I have a simple answer. Some sacrifice is certainly a part of true love, but it cannot be the whole picture. Charity is certainly part of it, too, but I don't think it is a complete picture of true love.

In some ways, I think some of the best pictures of true love are multi-faceted.

Okay, you know how when you fast without prayerful purpose it's just going hungry? It's the same for sacrifice. Sacrifice for the purpose of finally getting what you want in return is just pain. That is not love. That's still selfishness. The purpose for the sacrifice is very important in love. Sacrificing yourself to bring somebody you love on the path to fullness of joy is Love - Christlike love. It is giving with your right hand without your left hand expecting something back. That kind of sacrifice brings you to your own fullness of joy because your joy is tied to the other's joy. This is modeled by Christ seeking nothing else but to glorify the Father getting glorified in turn.

Do you see the difference between that and what Dr. Gottman is talking about?

By the way, fullness of joy is not giving meth to somebody who thinks he needs meth to have joy. Fullness of joy is that joy you experience when you follow Christ to the eternities.

Edited September 10, 2013 by anatess

[Lakumi]

[Guest]

Love this movie. LOL.

[Lakumi]

though I must say, all this talk about what love is, certainly makes my job as a writer easier, and I thank you all for that.

And yes, the key to my heart would be Peter Gabriel too... amongst other things

[Guest]

though I must say, all this talk about what love is, certainly makes my job as a writer easier, and I thank you all for that.

And yes, the key to my heart would be Peter Gabriel too... amongst other things

You gotta watch Secret Admirer... another 80's movie. You can tell yourself it's research material for your next book or some such.

[Lakumi]

You gotta watch Secret Admirer... another 80's movie. You can tell yourself it's research material for your next book or some such.

the human love, when I make up the races I make up courtship:lol:

If it doesn't contain pink ninja's or exploding heads it'll be a nice change from what I have been watching lol

but no matter what its about, just "the 80s" gives it some ground to stand on!

[Guest]

the human love, when I make up the races I make up courtship:lol:

If it doesn't contain pink ninja's or exploding heads it'll be a nice change from what I have been watching lol

but no matter what its about, just "the 80s" gives it some ground to stand on!

Yeah, that was the incomprehensible age when St. Elmo's Fire and Breakfast Club had cult followings... I am very embarassed to admit I was one of them.

[Lakumi]

Yeah, that was the incomprehensible age when St. Elmo's Fire and Breakfast Club had cult followings... I am very embarassed to admit I was one of them.

oh I, instead, have a slew of cheesy B movies and anime from the 80s (and early 90s)

so many stolen soundtracks and unnoficial sequels...

[Guest]

oh I, instead, have a slew of cheesy B movies and anime from the 80s (and early 90s)

so many stolen soundtracks and unnoficial sequels...

If you don't have Voltes V and Danguard Ace in your 80's anime collection, you gotta go get it!

[Lakumi]

If you don't have Voltes V and Danguard Ace in your 80's anime collection, you gotta go get it!

I have Fist of the North Star and Samurai Pizza Cats...

but I have heard of those, and, I know Voltes V is on my "to get list"

[MrShorty]

Anatess: As I've thought about it, I don't think I would agree that Dr. Gottman or anyone is suggesting that love should be a tit for tat, quid pro quo, I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine kind of arrangement.

Perhaps the comparison to fasting is a good way to explain it. As you say, fasting without purpose is just going hungry. On the other side of the coin, we've also been taught that fasting for days on end until we are sick and malnourished is also not appropriate. In the same way, selflessness is a necessary component of true love. Sacrificing to the point of becoming a "martyr" for the relationship or becoming resentful and hateful is not.