Are Anti-mormons Christian?

[Snow]

Originally posted by serapha@Mar 25 2004, 01:42 AM

snow,

You have made a number of personal accusation in your posting... would you mind providing the responses where I made those statement?

start with these...

1.  Your entire posting existence vis a vis the LDS gospel is that our faith is not acceptable to Christ and that we are going to Hell

2.  that Christ agrees with your theology and therefore you are favored of God and are going to heaven.

3.  You feel the need to proclaim your view of the LDS position publically, hoping to influence others to adopt your view that Mormon go to hell

4.  Christ, who favors you, does not appreciate and accept them.

5.  you mistate the LDS position and charge Mormons with things that are either untrue, or common to your own church - the larger Chrisitian body.

6.  What you do is designed in the most personal way possible - Christ damns you because you don't interpret the way I tell you to interpret.

7.  Doctrinally I think you are goofy.

8.  Doctrinally, what do I think? 

now... what was the term you used when addressing me... oh yes...

"pony up"

~serapha~

Serapha,

You needn't go to all the trouble of having to refute prior posts on another board that you made. You just tell me which of the following statements you deny and I will gladly retract them and promptly apologize.

Mormons are not Christian.

Non-Christians, ala Mormons, are not saved.

The non-saved go to hell

You believe the above because that is what Christ believes.

Am I mistaken? Point out the error and I'll get right on it.

If you need me to explain the line of reasoning that connect the above to the rest of the ennumerated points, let me know.

[Snow]

Originally posted by AFDaw@Mar 25 2004, 07:01 PM

Anyone who has not heard a clear presentation of the Gospel of Christ will not be lost.   Ayone who has heard a clear presentation of the true Gospel of Jesus Christ and rejected it will be lost.  Denomination has nothing to do with it.  Salvation is individual. 

Okay, well maybe you do have some unique doctrinal ideas that I hadn't considered.

Could you please provide scriptural evidence that one is not required to accept Christ in order to be saved ("not be lost" is a euphemism for saved, right?)

Grace is unmerited favor.   I do believe God has given me grace... yes.   And it is not whether Christ agrees with my theology, but that I agree with Christ's teachings. 

So it is your contention that you are going to heaven regardless of whether or not Christ believes the same things about salvation as do you?

That's interesting Serapha. Could you please eloborate how Christ's agreement with your theology is irrelevant.

3.  Do you try to get others to believe that Mormons are going to Hell?  Is this the view you will give when you "teach" about our religion (which you have no basis to do so) to your students?

You will have to look long and hard to find that I make such statements as you indicate.   I teach the same gospel no matter where I am... salvation requires a personal relationship with Christ and is individual.

You mean that Mormons that believe and practice Mormon soteriology really are saved and you don't make statements to the contrary on christianforums?

[Tr2]

1. You dishonestly stating LDS beliefs in a way that defies our own understanding

You have made very general statements. Get a little more specific and I will address it. So far you have done nothing but say "you are a liar". You have not stated what I lied about, what is wrong with the lie, or what is the truth. If you want to act like a 5 year old that is your choice but I won't play along.

2. LDS fruits vs yours

What type of fruit are you referring to? Again, very general.

3. Non-biblical concepts of the creeds

You are still staying pretty general, but you did mention the trinity.

OT example:

~ Gen 1:26; God is not speaking to an angel because angels were not a part of creation, they were created beings that were created with creation. There is a running constant in the bible that separates the created from the creator. It is like a twin telling the other twin "I created you".

~ God was not speaking to another God because in Isaiah 45:5-6 it says there there is only 1 God

~ Gen 3:22, 11:7, and Is 6:8 all have God speaking as though there are more than one person involved in the process

NT example:

~ John 1:1-4; Again, more than one person present at creation. Who was the word that was with God? Who was the word that was God? In this context John is speaking about Jesus. Is God schizophrenic?

~ I believe it is somewhere in John where Jesus says that he is in his father and his father is in him. Though not much by itself, this is very interesting when combined with the above information.

There is a lot more than this, this is just an introduction into the topic. I have a book somwhere that is something like 600p in length so i can't possibly communicate all my thoughts into one post. If you don't like the trinity..... wel it doesn't matter if you like it or not because reality is not dictated by what you want to believe.

4. Salvation

I have noticed that you are now into saying the word "interpret". You are using it a lot more than you should be because there is not a lot of interpretation required for understanding salvation. You are using that word to make the bible say what you want it to say. All interpretation is subject to the interpreter and your bias is so thick I'm surprised you're not choking on it. If were were talking about other issues (tongues, miracles, women wearing head coverings, or Revelation) then you would have a point with the interpretation. But the NT is very cut and dry when it comes to salvation. As well as you are ignoring many pieces of scriptures, as well as parables that contradict your "interpretations". If you are going to ignore very relevant points then I don't have the inclination to waste my time.

So it is your contention that you are going to heaven regardless of whether or not Christ believes the same things about salvation as do you?

Is this the same snow that got all bent out of shape with me and accused me of speaking for Jesus?

I guess I will provide a translation as to what snow means: if you don't believe what snow believes Christ says, you are wrong. I am getting good at speaking snow's language. It has been a very painful road but i think I am nearly fluent.

[porterrockwell]

Originally posted by serapha+Mar 25 2004, 09:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (serapha @ Mar 25 2004, 09:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--AFDaw@Mar 25 2004, 08:01 PM

.

1. Do you feel that TCoJCoLDS gives a "clear presentation of the Gospel of Christ?"

No. The CoJCoLDS comes across as a "works" program. When I say a "clear presentation"... then I mean that the person has a clear understanding of sin, the consequences of sin, and the blessed hope of eternal life through Christ.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the good news that "Jesus Saves!" Salvation is a process, being saved is only one part of the process and is not contengent upon any "work" or "work in progess".

~serapha~

So once faith is established, it is undestroyably within that person and can never dwindle right? Because if faith is not eternal, one cannot be saved till faith is perfected. Therefore longsuffering in your faith to the very end is required for salvation, and upon works we are judged. Mainstreamers idea of Faith saves you the instant you have routine doesn't work. We don't think we can WORK ourselves to heaven. Quite the opposite, we believe faith MUST be longsuffering and persistant through our trials. Then when we stand before God if our faith is sufficient we will recieve judgement based on our works. All will have immortal bodies(except for those who deny the Holy Ghost with a perfect knowledge of Christ). Not all will have Eternal Life. One question,(to all the MC's in here) how do you feel God is glorified?

[serapha]

Again, for clarity....

snow,

You have made a number of personal accusation in your posting... would you mind providing the responses where I made those statement?

start with these...

1. Your entire posting existence vis a vis the LDS gospel is that our faith is not acceptable to Christ and that we are going to Hell

2. that Christ agrees with your theology and therefore you are favored of God and are going to heaven.

3. You feel the need to proclaim your view of the LDS position publically, hoping to influence others to adopt your view that Mormon go to hell

4. Christ, who favors you, does not appreciate and accept them.

5. you mistate the LDS position and charge Mormons with things that are either untrue, or common to your own church - the larger Chrisitian body.

6. What you do is designed in the most personal way possible - Christ damns you because you don't interpret the way I tell you to interpret.

7. Doctrinally I think you are goofy.

8. Doctrinally, what do I think?

now... what was the term you used when addressing me... oh yes...

"pony up"

~serapha~

[Snow]

See my reponse to the last time you posted this.

[AFDaw]

Serapha, I see you asked for Snow to respond to your questions, I'm still waiting for you to respond to mine.

[serapha]

Serapha, I see you asked for Snow to respond to your questions, I'm still waiting for you to respond to mine.

This question? BTW... is "tracking" the term for following a thread... whatever the term is... I don't subscribe to threads, that notifications be sent to me... so if I don't reply to a question, it doesn't necessarily mean anything.... asking is always good.

So I asked...

Do you think our faith is unacceptable to Christ and/or we are going to Hell for following it?

you said...

Anyone who has not heard a clear presentation of the Gospel of Christ will not be lost.

and then I asked...

Do you feel that TCoJCoLDS gives a "clear presentation of the Gospel of Christ?"

and you said

No.

So is that to say that you do indeed feel that our faith is unacceptable to Christ and that we are going to Hell for following it?

I have to question the term "unacceptable to Christ" because I have never heard that term before the last posting when you used it in your question to me. So, first, please clarify the term so I understand without question what you are asking... okay?

As for anyone going to hell, I won't be making any judgments on anyone's eternal destination.... except my own....

<grin>

"I'm redeemed!"

Even after you explain the term "unacceptable to Christ", I won't be replying to what would be a judgment call on anyone's salvation.

As for the works...you can ignore the Bible if you want to, that's your right.

(Yes...that was smug)

au contraire...

I would never ignore the Bible, I don't remember the verse, though, that said my conversion to Christianity was dependent upon my works.

~serapha~

[AFDaw]

Shouldn't you have questioned the term prior to answering it? By "unacceptable to Christ" do you think he disagrees with it?

You say you won't make comments about anyone's eternal destination, but you already did. You said..

  Ayone who has heard a clear presentation of the true Gospel of Jesus Christ and rejected it will be lost.

Isn't that commenting on those who have "heard a clear presentation of the true Gospel of Jesus Christ and rejected it" and their "eternal destination?"

As for Works...before I go into that, let me ask you this. What does it take for a person to be "saved"?

[srm]

Originally posted by Peace+Mar 24 2004, 08:53 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peace @ Mar 24 2004, 08:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -serapha@Mar 24 2004, 08:47 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Kevin@Mar 24 2004, 09:44 PM

Snow is Jeff Lindsay.

Snow is Jeff Lindsay.

Are you serious?

Oh, I'm never leaving this forum.... until I'm banned.

~serapha~

Okay...your are banned! LOL

<span style=\'color:red\'>Just kidding...

I am Sparticus errr I mean jeff lindsay.

Will the real jeff lindsay please stand up?