White Shirts And Ties

[a-train]

We have a dude that comes to our ward every week with a full on Jesus harido and beard. He wears casual clothes. He's great! He has never been asked to do anything about his appearance, especially not leave.

-a-train

[CrimsonKairos]

If flip-flops are your best, more power to you.

My experience is that people buy them because they provide greater personal comfort...not because they're the only footwear they can afford while still putting food on the table.

I thank God that Jesus wasn't obsessed with personal comfort when it came time to face the cross.

[sixpacktr]

Christ dressed as was appropriate for his time. Since grungy appearance is today considered an act of rebellion against authority, do you really think that Christ, the ultimate example in obedience, would dress that way? The argument is ridiculous.

Come on. Asked to leave church? Where do you attend? We never asked anyone to leave, period. The whole point is being obedient. Just as tithing has absolutely nothing to do with money, a white shirt and tie has absolutely nothing to do with appearance.

[shanstress70]

Just as tithing has absolutely nothing to do with money, a white shirt and tie has absolutely nothing to do with appearance.

What? You can't tell me that your church doesn't need its tithing money.

[Guest mamacat]

Christ dressed as was appropriate for his time. Since grungy appearance is today considered an act of rebellion against authority, do you really think that Christ, the ultimate example in obedience, would dress that way? The argument is ridiculous.

Come on. Asked to leave church? Where do you attend? We never asked anyone to leave, period. The whole point is being obedient. Just as tithing has absolutely nothing to do with money, a white shirt and tie has absolutely nothing to do with appearance.

about the white shirt/tie issue, i think it actually takes the emphasis from one's clothing, and places it on the individual. it can be distracting, focusing our attention on who's wearing what, what style, what designer, what cool color, who looks more gq, or j.crew, polo or hilfiger....or stylishly slouchy in abercrombie and fitch...hehe....

i like the white shirt/tie ensemble because i know the emphasis is on the priesthood, not our worldly, everyday pursuits.

having said that though, i thought Christ was more of a rebel towards the prevailing Jewish authority at the time. wasn't he?

[sixpacktr]

It has nothing to do with the church needing or not needing money. Tithing is the Lord's way of funding the church.

If you don't pay tithing that doesn't mean you can't attend church, partake of the sacrament, even hold a calling (not a leadership calling, but you can hold a calling). As I said, it has nothing to do with money--it has everything to do with trust and obedience. The Lord isn't the one on trial or being tested here: we are. If we don't want to pay, it doesn't hurt the Lord one whit. But I would have something to answer for.

I remember reading about the United Order in Missouri. Joseph had asked some of the brethren to go out to the membership to ask for some of their land for those that were coming into the area. Now, these brethren had ample land, 10s of if not 100s of acres. Yet most if not all said that they didn't have any to give. Remember, they had covenanted to live the Law of Consecration, yet were refusing to give any to those in need. When the brethren came back and recited the excuses to Joseph, he didn't rant and rave, etc. No, he simply stated that he didn't care, it didn't matter to him, THEY were the ones being tested, not HF, not Joseph. The Lord was the one they were rejecting, not Joseph, not those in need.

So, Shanstress, that is why I stated what I did.

having said that though, i thought Christ was more of a rebel towards the prevailing Jewish authority at the time. wasn't he?

He did chastise them severely for their rank hypocrisy. He criticized them for holding others back from attaining the kingdom while not going in themselves, he railed against everything that the pharisees held dear, which was to be seen of men as spiritual giants. But those "giants" also did all the sins of the supposed "lower class" but rationalized it away.

I don't remember him telling the people "disregard the rules that you have been given. Disregard the hedge about the law." What he did say was that love was the key, he was the Christ, and that God could be approached by everyone, not just the ruling elite.

[Guest Username-Removed]

Just a thought from my old poem writing days .... Im not saying its all truth, but it can provoke some thought into why we keep commandments and rules...

----------

If you know him

I stand in awe at his love.

He was called master, prince of peace, and the great ‘I Am’.

Unimaginable the sacrifice, it is and was.

For souls like me, just as it is now and as it was then.

As I read more it opens my mind and soul.

It was about love and how to listen to heavenly beings.

The words of the great 'I Am' makes my heart overflow.

It changes my spirit; Im given hope and given wings.

But when others speak I understand less.

They make many commandments and many rules.

They confuse my mind; they say it’s a test.

My spirit tells me, if I follow this kind, I will be a fool.

God does give us truth and does give us answers.

We can tell where they came from by how they were said.

They lead to full understanding, not just pieces.

They give us hope, like food for our soul, like heavenly bread.

Love isn’t about force, hate, lying, or being dishonest

Nor is it something that can be used for personal gain.

It is and was, something that a newborn, you and I wanted.

It is and was, something we lost and must find again.

If you know him, you have found the word.

It is for every person who has ever lived,

and the same that Moses came down with first.

It’s for every person that has ever hoped and dreamed.

Dreamt of the things that should.

Not as they are, the things that we touch,

such as buildings made of stone and wood.

It’s found in our hearts. It’s charity & love.

“Find me” he might say, “lift a rock or split a piece of wood”

I am there, but not in the number of rules you keep.

But rather how you should.

It’s the understanding of why that will bathe his feet.

2000 years ago Christ died; few understood.

A last attempt to teach love, the magnitude of which makes me weep.

Still they and we, trample on his word.

Because of this, many spirits still sleep.

Truth is not blind, nor is it deep.

Only one must I know. Only one must I keep.

The waters of love & truth forever flow.

It leads to the tree of life, to everlasting peace.

-----------

[Outshined]

It's fairly rare for me to wear a white shirt; I usually wear colored shirts and pretty loud ties. It has never been an issue.

When I know I'll be blessing or passing Sacrament, I wear a white shirt and jacket. My son just turned 12, and we discussed reverence and wearing a white shirt and tie to pass Sacrament (in our stake, a jacket is also required). It's a sign of respect.

[Palerider]

If Christ was to appear in most LDS meetings, dressed in sandals and wearing a beard, he would be most certainly asked to leave.

The issue here is not that we shouldn't come to worship the Lord looking our best; of course we should. And if flip flops are our best, then flip flops it will be. The issue is the over empahsis on appearance by leaders who seem to be straining at a gnat but swallowing a camel. And the unauthorized adding of requirements to the recommend interview. This is being done in the spirit of apostasy and hypocrisy.

The recommend interview is to establish that we are free from serious sin and apostasy before we enter the House of the Lord. Its done to protect us from making a serious error of judgement by entering the Temple unworthily. The unscrupulous and unrighteous can and do enter the Temple unworthily if they insist, but they have been warned. It sounds like this particular ward/stake see the recommend as some kind of status symbol.

I am wondering who would ask him to leave.....hhhmmm......as I said earlier....I live in rural Missouri and if you seen how some have dressed for church....wow.....you wear your Sunday best....if a flanel shirt is your best,,....then thats what you wear.

[Fiannan]

A person's priesthood power is just as powerful blessing or passing the sacrament wearing a white shirt and tie or a t-shirt. You know, Jesus never wore a tie and I doubt a tie will be part of the standard dress in the afterlife. Just my take on the subject.

[CrimsonKairos]

The point is not what dress standard is the universal dress standard.

The point is how do you show respect in your particular culture.

Jesus didn't wear ties. Why? No one wore ties. Jesus wore sandals or went barefoot. Why? That's what they did at the time.

In America and other cultures, suits and ties are seen as formal or respectful attire. In Africa, they may not be (or they may, who knows?). The issue isn't "what specific articles of clothing are approved by God?" but rather:

"What articles of clothing are both modest (whole other debate) and respectful within the culture you live in?"

[Guest mamacat]

The point is not what dress standard is the universal dress standard.

The point is how do you show respect in your particular culture.

Jesus didn't wear ties. Why? No one wore ties. Jesus wore sandals or went barefoot. Why? That's what they did at the time.

In America and other cultures, suits and ties are seen as formal or respectful attire. In Africa, they may not be (or they may, who knows?). The issue isn't "what specific articles of clothing are approved by God?" but rather:

"What articles of clothing are both modest (whole other debate) and respectful within the culture you live in?"

of course i can't speak for Him, but i'm of kind of the same thought as CK. during His time, JC dressed as the essenes dressed. they always dressed in white, and most esp in attending their temple, which they considered very sacred. i have a statue of him dressed in the white robes of the essenes. i've kept this statue on my book shelf for a number of years, before i ever had any clue of what a morman was.

it's the exact same image of JC as the image at the top of this website, and most other LDS sites and publications that i have seen. needless to say, i was quite awed at this when i first began my foray into the LDS faith.

another thing, unrelated to white shirts/ties/manner of dress, but regarding essenes ~ their community at qumran was very near a large sea, the Dead Sea. this was in the same geographical area as Jerusalem, also close to Nazareth. another of the essene communities was in a very close city, known as Moab. the similarity was not lost on me, when pondering Salt Lake City, close to a large inland body of water, and a smaller city in the same geographical area called Moab. not only this, but the climate and terrain of both cities called Moab, and the surrounding areas, are very similar as well.

[Guest mamacat]

Moab, Utah

Cave at Qumran, near the biblical Moab

(sorry that this post is way off topic... )

[CrimsonKairos]

Cool parallel, mc.

[Guest mamacat]

thanks CK...there are other similarities as well....for example, the dietary rules that the essenes followed are comparable to the word of wisdom. they refrained from flesh intake and considered wheat the ideal food. this is remarkably similar to what i posted about the word of wisdom and refraining from excess meat intake in the excess thread....quoting from early latter day saints. one of them stated that wheat should be the focus of our agricultural endeavors.

also found among the dead sea scrolls was the lost book of Enoch. i still have further reading to do about Enoch, but he is fascinating to me as the father of the Melchizidek priesthood.

the following is a description of essenes' view of their 'mission'...sounds familiar to the unique style of mission in LDS ~

the Brother (or Sister) often had to surpass himself, to question himself, and to obtain the assistance of the Holy Spirit.

He was given techniques to help him; for example, he had to examine himself and observe himself often. Periodically, he was to look back at himself--watching his life unfold before him, image by image, like the pages of a book: "Was what he saw inscribed in this book worthy to be included in the Great Book of Life?"

Every thought, every feeling, every action, and its motivations, had to be clearly outlined "in black and white".

Then, it had to be determined if the idea of the mission, the high ideal, was the source. The Essene Masters knew from experience how quickly one can stray from the path of light and get lost, unable to find the road again. The task of the neophyte was to simplify everything within himself, in order to become one with his ideal. If this ideal shone only intermittently, as if to call him back to order, then that was not a good sign. A problem was taking root inside of him. He had to immediately clarify his life, in order to keep alive and pure his bond with the Most-High, with the sun of his soul. For him, this was the source of all healing, and of all authentic healing power.

oh well, some thoughts that occupy me....i suppose i should be out clubbing instead, but no, not me lol, my time is spent upon things such as essenes and wheat.

sorry again, back to the topic at hand -- shirts and ties. :)

[Guest mamacat]

and really, about the white shirt and tie issue, you do get to make something of a fashion statement...can't you always pick your tie pattern and color, personalizing it in that respect?

i recently found the most ingenious little tie for my babe -- it encircles the neck and has a discreet little zipper so that positioning it on him is quite easy to do, and very neat looking. it has gold and royal blue diagonal stripes with a light silver pattern of 'CTR' running across the stripes. it's so cute and adorable. i love seeing him in his shirt, tie and jacket. :)

(though we don't yet have a white dress shirt.)