a-train Posted June 9, 2007 Report Posted June 9, 2007 Let us not imagine that beings who appeared to Joseph Smith in a physical form must have been translated and not resurrected. We cannot assume that John the Baptist's appearance to Joseph Smith was an indication that he passed on to immortality through translation. We are well aware that he was beheaded and his head was presented in a silver charger to Herodias. I see no reason to assume that he was not so slain. I further have no problem with the notion that he was resurrected when he conferred the Priesthood of Aaron.Joseph Smith explained: 'Many have supposed that the doctrine of translation was a doctrine whereby men were taken immediately into the presence of God, and into an eternal fullness, but this is a mistaken idea. Their place of habitation is that of the terrestrial order, and a place prepared for such characters He held in reserve to be ministering angels unto many planets, and who as yet have not entered into so great a fullness as those who are resurrected from the dead.' (TPJS, p. 170).So was Adam translated? I don't see anything to positively suggest that, but I can say that he 'died' the second he was put out of the Garden. He suffered the death of seperation from God. Not only did he suffer it, the whole earth did. The planet fell from a celestial status to telestial. This seperation from God is death.We know this earth will not 'die' and be resurrected, it will be translated to a terrestrial state and then eventually celestialized. We may think that seperation from God has been called 'death' because it is like death, but perhaps the dissolution of the mortal body is called 'death' because it is similar to seperation from God which is the real death.-a-train
CrimsonKairos Posted June 9, 2007 Report Posted June 9, 2007 Good points a-train. Death seems inextricably linked with separation. Separation of spirit and body = physical death Separation of man and God = spiritual death Seems to me that if there are two deaths we experience and we inherit one (from the Fall) but cause the other (through sin), there must be two resurrections, one of which we inherit (from the atonement) and one which we must work out (through repentance). I guess in a sense only those who enter the Celestial Kingdom will have received a "full resurrection," if by resurrection we mean the reversal of death. After all, if separation from God is a death, then only those who return to His presence will have overcome that death and been "resurrected" from the spiritual death. Of course everyone will be physically resurrected and have their spirits and bodies inseparably joined (though not in the same degree of glory necessarily). This is a trivial point, however, and not worth emphasizing. It is interesting to me, though.
vinny15 Posted June 9, 2007 Report Posted June 9, 2007 Quote <div class='quotemain'>Hey thats all pretty cool yediyd. I never thought of that.sure puts things into perspective...doesn't it?Yep sure does. I've been reading the bible along with the BoM and I cant imagine one without the other because they both prophecy of each other.
CrimsonKairos Posted June 10, 2007 Report Posted June 10, 2007 Before changing his post to a smiley, Luke continued to assert above that Adam was translated.You still have not given any support for your claim that Adam was translated and didn't die.We all know Moses and Elijah were translated as well as John the Revelator and the Three Nephites.So far all we have is your opinion that Adam was translated. Please, stop opining and start citing.
pushka Posted June 10, 2007 Report Posted June 10, 2007 It is very frustrating to see that Lukeair2006 has edited all of his posts into smileys only!! Could anybody replying to his posts try to post his complete statement, so that the rest of us can follow the thread more easily, thanks!! :)
CrimsonKairos Posted June 10, 2007 Report Posted June 10, 2007 I think he's being smart and realizing that Adam wasn't translated. So, he removed all his assertions that Adam was translated and instead posted innocuous smilies.
Guest Yediyd Posted June 10, 2007 Report Posted June 10, 2007 Quote I think he's being smart and realizing that Adam wasn't translated. So, he removed all his assertions that Adam was translated and instead posted innocuous smilies.That was my thought.
pushka Posted June 10, 2007 Report Posted June 10, 2007 Quote I think he's being smart and realizing that Adam wasn't translated. So, he removed all his assertions that Adam was translated and instead posted innocuous smilies.OK, thanks for that explanation CK..still frustrating however, I've noticed other threads have been tampered with too..
CrimsonKairos Posted June 10, 2007 Report Posted June 10, 2007 Yeah I know. He'd say something or ask a question and so I'd respond. Now that his posts are just smilies, it makes it look like I started randomly posting comments in response to an invisible friend or something.
musashi Posted June 11, 2007 Report Posted June 11, 2007 i was just thinking. if god said he will die in the day that he eats it, as in within 1000 years - is that really like a threat or a warning to adam? coz its really not that amazing to say if you eat that apple you will die within a thousand years pal. the other thing is when god said that to adam...was it supposed to be like a riddle? or did adam know what god meant about it being a day kolob time, not earth time. maybe god was just talking to himself, coz i think adam might not have got it like we do. adam was probably so scared that day...like oh man...i'm gonna die. and then at the end of the day when he didn't die...he would have been like - wait a second...oh god must have meant KOLOB time, not earth time silly me
Guest Yediyd Posted June 11, 2007 Report Posted June 11, 2007 Quote i was just thinking. if god said he will die in the day that he eats it, as in within 1000 years - is that really like a threat or a warning to adam? coz its really not that amazing to say if you eat that apple you will die within a thousand years pal.the other thing is when god said that to adam...was it supposed to be like a riddle? or did adam know what god meant about it being a day kolob time, not earth time. maybe god was just talking to himself, coz i think adam might not have got it like we do. adam was probably so scared that day...like oh man...i'm gonna die. and then at the end of the day when he didn't die...he would have been like - wait a second...oh god must have meant KOLOB time, not earth time silly meAdam understood that the conciquences was death...Death is a seperation, he DID die the minuet he took a bite...he was seperated from God. Whether he understood Kolob time vs Earth time is irrellivent.
a-train Posted June 11, 2007 Report Posted June 11, 2007 Keep in mind that Adam would have NEVER died had he not partaken of the fruit. So the fear of death within a thousand years would be great to an immortal being. However, obviously not great enough to keep our first parents from partaking. This is no different from those who partake of deadly drugs nowadays. Also, understand that the earth's reckoning of time could have been very different before the fall. We simply do not know how long a day was for Adam relative to our current reckoning. Furthermore, Adam was no dummy. He knew a lot. I am certain he understood a great deal about what he was getting himself into and what the LORD meant in his conversations with Adam. -a-train
Guest Yediyd Posted June 11, 2007 Report Posted June 11, 2007 Quote Keep in mind that Adam would have NEVER died had he not partaken of the fruit. So the fear of death within a thousand years would be great to an immortal being. However, obviously not great enough to keep our first parents from partaking. This is no different from those who partake of deadly drugs nowadays.Also, understand that the earth's reckoning of time could have been very different before the fall. We simply do not know how long a day was for Adam relative to our current reckoning.Furthermore, Adam was no dummy. He knew a lot. I am certain he understood a great deal about what he was getting himself into and what the LORD meant in his conversations with Adam.-a-trainexactly
CrimsonKairos Posted June 11, 2007 Report Posted June 11, 2007 I had to go to the temple before I'd believe that a woman could truly be a master of logic. Eve's explanation to Adam of why he had to eat the forbidden fruit was air-tight. Sorry for doubting all you women for so long (though I have yet to meet another logical woman as keen as Eve).
Guest Yediyd Posted June 11, 2007 Report Posted June 11, 2007 Quote I had to go to the temple before I'd believe that a woman could truly be a master of logic.Eve's explanation to Adam of why he had to eat the forbidden fruit was air-tight. Sorry for doubting all you women for so long (though I have yet to meet another logical woman as keen as Eve). Indeed....and I can whole heartedly say the same thing about Adam.
Guest Yediyd Posted June 17, 2007 Report Posted June 17, 2007 Sounded like a whole lot of sour apples and hurt feelings and still no proof that Adam didn't die! Get over yourself Luke!
LukeAir2006 Posted June 17, 2007 Report Posted June 17, 2007 Quote Sounded like a whole lot of sour apples and hurt feelings and still no proof that Adam didn't die! Get over yourself Luke!You told me that Moses died and you were wrong. What else are you wrong about?
Guest Yediyd Posted June 17, 2007 Report Posted June 17, 2007 Quote <div class='quotemain'>Sounded like a whole lot of sour apples and hurt feelings and still no proof that Adam didn't die! Get over yourself Luke!You told me that Moses died and you were wrong. What else are you wrong about? I'm wrong about alot of things, but one thing I am not wrong about is that you have a spirit of contention and are only up here to argue...so, this will be my last responce to you. Find somebody eles to fight with.
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